Has this story ever turned out well for American man and Russian woman?

[psychasthenia 9]

Wow, thanks for posting. I wanted to post again....I mean I REALY wanted to post again but I was afraid if I posted twice in a row I might be labled an OCP, (Obsessive compulsive poster).

OK here it is. I have a confession to make................................................I made up the screaming rule. I don't even know if there are rules for screaming. Life is better if we all follow the rules. But how can we follow them if we don't even know what they are? We were thinking about it and idiot is a a perfectly good screaming word and it does in fact have 3 syllables. Perhaps it is because the accent is on

the first syllable. If anyone out there knows the officially sanctioned rules for screaming we would like to hear what they are. And just for the record, I am %100 heterogenous most of the time.

Pretty funny! Cheers.

[psychasthenia 9]

PhilN, I did scold you. That's true. I have an issue with non-professional people diagnosing psychological conditions. That's the narcissism in me speaking

I hope that you follow through and actually separate from this woman. Irrespective of her diagnosis, your relationship is very unhealthy.

[Stuart and Thea 95]

Phil: Don't have the girlfriend move in. Don't move into the girlfriend's house. I said it once before, and I'll say it again, pay for a hotel for the fiance and her daughter to stay in until the return ticket date. If they don't leave on the day in question, it's not any of your concern, and stop worrying about it.

Do not send this woman to your friends. She will either make them hate you, make them hate her, kill them, or at the very least, make them never speak to you again. She's your mess, you take care of it, don't pawn her off on a buddy, if you do, you're not a good friend.

If you do not wish to send her to a hotel, then by all means, go to one yourself. Go to your other house. Stay with a friend yourself. But do not stay in the same house as this woman, I still feel it is in your best interest to send her to a hotel with her daughter, as that way she is out of the house and no longer your problem.

As to the daughter, she's obviously used to being the grown up in this relationship, don't worry about your role in messing her up by sending her back to her home country. Yes, maybe USA is a better place for her, but you made a mistake in trying to be in a family with her mom. I truly think you do not love the mother. I think that you just are one of those people that would try to make the best of things no matter what.

Guess what? Sometimes it's better to let things go than to keep flogging a dead horse. So, even if there is one chance in a thousand that you can make it work and be happy, believe me, there is many many more chances that happiness will only come to both of you separately. Do not keep in touch with them, just a clean break is best for all involved.

Also, do not let your ex move in with you. Even after the fiance goes home, as, like I have said before, you have terrible judgement, and terrible taste in women. If anything, you should have learned by now to take it slow, and not live with anyone until you have made the commitment of marriage already. So, if you don't love the ex girlfriend, don't live with her, or you're leading her on.

Phil, can you try to be just a regular guy at all? Try not to look too deep into situations, and try to analyze everything that is said or done? Try to go with the flow and take things at face value for a while? If you can, you'll find that you'll be a lot happier, as your instincts, and then your judgement will start to improve.

Then one day, you'll find yourself in love with someone that deserves it at that moment, and not at some unspecified date in the future when they've hopefully gotten over whatever mental illness they likely have. Don't fall in love with what might be, don't fall in love with a future that you don't know is possible. Fall in love with someone for who they are, at that very moment, and love that they are exactly who they are, flaws and all.

In the meantime... love yourself, and treat yourself better than you have been. Stay away from toxic women.

[Phil N 4]

Phil: Don't have the girlfriend move in. Don't move into the girlfriend's house. I said it once before, and I'll say it again, pay for a hotel for the fiance and her daughter to stay in until the return ticket date. If they don't leave on the day in question, it's not any of your concern, and stop worrying about it.

Do not send this woman to your friends. She will either make them hate you, make them hate her, kill them, or at the very least, make them never speak to you again. She's your mess, you take care of it, don't pawn her off on a buddy, if you do, you're not a good friend.

If you do not wish to send her to a hotel, then by all means, go to one yourself. Go to your other house. Stay with a friend yourself. But do not stay in the same house as this woman, I still feel it is in your best interest to send her to a hotel with her daughter, as that way she is out of the house and no longer your problem.

As to the daughter, she's obviously used to being the grown up in this relationship, don't worry about your role in messing her up by sending her back to her home country. Yes, maybe USA is a better place for her, but you made a mistake in trying to be in a family with her mom. I truly think you do not love the mother. I think that you just are one of those people that would try to make the best of things no matter what.

Guess what? Sometimes it's better to let things go than to keep flogging a dead horse. So, even if there is one chance in a thousand that you can make it work and be happy, believe me, there is many many more chances that happiness will only come to both of you separately. Do not keep in touch with them, just a clean break is best for all involved.

Also, do not let your ex move in with you. Even after the fiance goes home, as, like I have said before, you have terrible judgement, and terrible taste in women. If anything, you should have learned by now to take it slow, and not live with anyone until you have made the commitment of marriage already. So, if you don't love the ex girlfriend, don't live with her, or you're leading her on.

Phil, can you try to be just a regular guy at all? Try not to look too deep into situations, and try to analyze everything that is said or done? Try to go with the flow and take things at face value for a while? If you can, you'll find that you'll be a lot happier, as your instincts, and then your judgement will start to improve.

Then one day, you'll find yourself in love with someone that deserves it at that moment, and not at some unspecified date in the future when they've hopefully gotten over whatever mental illness they likely have. Don't fall in love with what might be, don't fall in love with a future that you don't know is possible. Fall in love with someone for who they are, at that very moment, and love that they are exactly who they are, flaws and all.

In the meantime... love yourself, and treat yourself better than you have been. Stay away from toxic women.

The option was to send her to HER friends. No risk there.

I think she and her daughter would even work out OK staying with another friend of mine (a different ex-girlfriend, who has a vacant mother-in-law apartment at her place) for a week or so before moving in with HER friends. HER friends are out of town for the next week. My belief and experience is that she is a high-functioning BPD who primarily only shows her issues to her close inner circle, i.e., me, her mother, her daughter. I think she will behave in a mostly normal way if I am not around to serve as a trigger for her emotions.

I really did love my fiancee, but there's no point debating about that. I loved my second wife deeply when I left her. It's not just about love, and LTR decisions I try to make with both heads (large and small) and my heart. If I don't feel respected, in a way that feels right to me, nothing else matters. And any games around intimacy and sex, and withholding, are total buzzkill and showstoppers for me. It conveys an underlying belief of "my sexuality is more important and valuable than yours." To which my instant reaction is "absolute BS!!" I don't care if it's made of gold and lined with diamonds, I'm not playing that game. And the moment she started playing that game, it was huge red flags all over the place. My experience with other relationships has been that I'm in demand all the time. And when she created conflicts and invented excuses to sleep in with her daughter instead of me, excuses about the bedroom, about the mattress, about the bed being too high, many more red flags. If I'm truly her man, the only thing that matters about the bedroom is that I'm in it. Everything else can be adjusted to her tastes over time. So once she started her games, my large head told me to limit my emotional attachment to her, and to not get sucked in.

I only have terrible judgment dealing with this (suspected) BPD woman :-) I violated my own standards, thinking the issue was cultural differences, and that all would be OK once I got her here. My standards are high and I have great taste in women if I'm meeting them on eHarmony or Chemistry.com. That's where almost all the ex-girlfriends are from, and several are close and trusted friends. One even rents from me. So for me, there is something to those matching sites and their matching formulas.

I only work so hard at analyzing and figuring out, with this particular BPD woman. I made excuses for her behavior, on account of her stressful life circumstances, my belief that she was essentially a widow, and to allow for cultural differences. I don't make such excuses with American women, (it's "Next!" as soon as I see those types of issues) and now I know better... There were enough red flags on my first visit to my fiancee, that I should have simply RAN the other direction. Everything that happened that first visit, the way I felt, the way she treated me, has continued to play out in how she acts now that she is here. So I was a fool for thinking it would be different, that I could make it work. Live and learn.

This particular ex-girlfriend, the one who would stay at my house, is someone I have known for 2-1/2 years, and dated off and on during that time. Every time I would break up with her, she would tell me she wasn't done with me yet. (I "Next!" 'ed her about 5 times over those first two years.) About six months ago, I told her exactly the three reasons I wasn't choosing to be with her. She stayed in touch with me, and got serious about working on those three reasons. She made amazing progress, and, while I knew she had it in her, her results exceeded my expectations. She has amazing talents, but was sabotaging herself, limiting herself and not giving her gifts fully in life. She's back in school because she knew that was part of what I expected. She started getting A+ grades in college math classes that previously she had pleaded math anxiety about, and dropped or gotten C's or less. She stopped making silly emotional excuses and just got busy "doing". She went back to performing as a vocalist, and started winning competitions. Maybe you'll see her winning "America's Got Talent" in another year or two. She's that good. It took the experience with my fiancee, to realize how much I care about this woman. Just trying to be with my fiancee wore me out, while being with this woman recharged and renewed me. So I do plan to go exclusive with her for the time being, and see what happens. My kids love her, that's for sure.

[nane1104 146]

Phil: Don't have the girlfriend move in. Don't move into the girlfriend's house. I said it once before, and I'll say it again, pay for a hotel for the fiance and her daughter to stay in until the return ticket date. If they don't leave on the day in question, it's not any of your concern, and stop worrying about it.

Do not send this woman to your friends. She will either make them hate you, make them hate her, kill them, or at the very least, make them never speak to you again. She's your mess, you take care of it, don't pawn her off on a buddy, if you do, you're not a good friend.

If you do not wish to send her to a hotel, then by all means, go to one yourself. Go to your other house. Stay with a friend yourself. But do not stay in the same house as this woman, I still feel it is in your best interest to send her to a hotel with her daughter, as that way she is out of the house and no longer your problem.

As to the daughter, she's obviously used to being the grown up in this relationship, don't worry about your role in messing her up by sending her back to her home country. Yes, maybe USA is a better place for her, but you made a mistake in trying to be in a family with her mom. I truly think you do not love the mother. I think that you just are one of those people that would try to make the best of things no matter what.

Guess what? Sometimes it's better to let things go than to keep flogging a dead horse. So, even if there is one chance in a thousand that you can make it work and be happy, believe me, there is many many more chances that happiness will only come to both of you separately. Do not keep in touch with them, just a clean break is best for all involved.

Also, do not let your ex move in with you. Even after the fiance goes home, as, like I have said before, you have terrible judgement, and terrible taste in women. If anything, you should have learned by now to take it slow, and not live with anyone until you have made the commitment of marriage already. So, if you don't love the ex girlfriend, don't live with her, or you're leading her on.

Phil, can you try to be just a regular guy at all? Try not to look too deep into situations, and try to analyze everything that is said or done? Try to go with the flow and take things at face value for a while? If you can, you'll find that you'll be a lot happier, as your instincts, and then your judgement will start to improve.

Then one day, you'll find yourself in love with someone that deserves it at that moment, and not at some unspecified date in the future when they've hopefully gotten over whatever mental illness they likely have. Don't fall in love with what might be, don't fall in love with a future that you don't know is possible. Fall in love with someone for who they are, at that very moment, and love that they are exactly who they are, flaws and all.

In the meantime... love yourself, and treat yourself better than you have been. Stay away from toxic women.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Looking into my own issues? Only my entire adult life...

Now, based on my understanding of BPD behaviors, I will probably be subjected to some intense "Hoovering" by her the next couple days, to try to "suck me back in". If I'm right, she will admit she has a problem, agree to do the BPD assessment, offer me lots of sex, and just generally be very affectionate towards me. I'd be lying if I said that didn't appeal to me, on an emotional level. I do feel like a moth drawn to her flame. This latest stunt, of her trying to make the car run off the road, was so serious, that it really has to be a show-stopper.

Yes, it has been interesting, the attacks and analysis I've been subjected to here. There is just no pleasing some people, so I try to remember to simply please at least myself. I see myself as a confused man doing my best to learn. I also hope that telling my story, as it unfolds, will help others learn from it in the future.

FYI, everything in this thread that I have posted is 100% true, aside from a few small minor names and places changed to protect anonymity. I am not so creative as to make any of this stuff up, nor do I have the time and attention and/or life energy to spend that way. And yes, it is told from my point of view. From her point of view, it would read quite differently, with me as the villain.

Is that anything like when they "suck forgiveness"? (a frequently used euphamism between FSU women, so Alla says )

I say it is a so-so fiction story if you can suspend disbelief long enough to think any man would deal with such sh*t from someone that is not his wife when there are like 4 million more hot Ukrainian women willing to be a sincere and loving partner

Edited August 10, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Phil N 4]

Is that anything like when they "suck forgiveness"? (a frequently used euphamism between FSU women, so Alla says )

I say it is a so-so fiction story if you can suspend disbelief long enough to think any man would deal with such sh*t from someone that is not his wife when there are like 4 million more hot Ukrainian women willing to be a sincere and loving partner

How I wish it were a fiction story... it did cross my mind today, that these VJ posts, along with my notes from the two visits to her country, there would be enough for a truth-is-stranger-than-fiction book. It would be a cautionary tale...

I have read several tales like mine where the man did marry the woman (or vice versa) and got their life turned upside down. There are a lot of good things about my fiancee, and I really did want to give her a fair chance. As it is, I may not have truly given her a fair chance, but the risks are just too high.

Can your wife help explain that "suck forgiveness", or does it mean suck at forgiveness, i.e., hold a grudge?

I hear you on the 4 million more hot Ukrainian women... and sincere and loving partner... I am guilty of ignoring warning signs and forging blindly ahead.

A woman I dated for several months (just before meeting my fiancee) had a Narcissist + Antisocial Personality Disorder ex-husband, who emotionally and physically abused her. She found him because she had a "checklist" for a husband, that he had to be the right religion (Southern Baptist, I think) and certain religious beliefs, had to want the right number of kids, and a whole list of things, including the white picket fence. Well, the guy lied about a whole bunch of things, but since, with his lies, he fit her "checklist", she married him. She suffered through 12 years of violence and abuse before finally pulling the plug, when the abuse started to affect their daughter more and more. When she told me her story, I connected some dots and explained to her that her husband was also a sex addict, and was hiring strippers and prostitutes while on the road with his traveling sales job. Then she went through the mother of all divorces from hell, where they wiped out a $600,000 home on attorney fees, fighting over every minute detail. Oh yes, this woman had an MBA degree.

The point of that last bit was that I had my "checklist" too, and this woman fit so much of it, on paper, that it caused me to ignore and overlook things I normally wouldn't.

[DeeDee&Sam 68]

i doubd you love her. you like her and feel attracted to her sexualy but thats far from love. i scold my fiance without reason whem im annoyed, i reject him when im in a bad mood, if i dont wanna have sex i tell him NO! and he quits. but he never got suspicious on me, he always understood me, and always made things better, he knows the visa process and soon the moving to america has a very big impact on my nerves. my advice: send her back, not because she seems to use u, but because you two dont love eachother

[B_J 2,752]

Did you really scream "How dare you endanger my life"? Nothing takes the uummph out of screaming like using 3 syllable words. According to your quotes she is a much better screamer than you even when she is going off in a second language. The rule is nothing over 2 syllables. I'm left with the image of a proper British gentleman in a bowler derby,," My dear, How dare you endanger.

I think we need to keep her around .I mean you! Oh no!! 3 times in one post. what am I doing?? I think maybe I need some analysis, somebody help me!!!!!!!!!!

I think you're right. The quality of screaming is very important in a relationship.

I believe the two syllable rule is in the argument handbook, at least in the international addition, as well as the ignore proper grammar rule. There are a lot of rules that are open to interpretation but starting a rant with "How dare you..." probably loses points; but if he had thrown in a couple of profanities he could have probably evened the score. He could still be competitive in the screaming match as long as he doesn't become the cryer. The man loses when he starts crying but it's bonus points for the woman. It's a really unfair rule but it's in the handbook (rule 5.3.2a)

BTW, thanks for your additions to this thread. You've been the comic relief in a looooong drama.

[Phil N 4]

i doubd you love her. you like her and feel attracted to her sexualy but thats far from love. i scold my fiance without reason whem im annoyed, i reject him when im in a bad mood, if i dont wanna have sex i tell him NO! and he quits. but he never got suspicious on me, he always understood me, and always made things better, he knows the visa process and soon the moving to america has a very big impact on my nerves. my advice: send her back, not because she seems to use u, but because you two dont love eachother

Yes, I suppose I was in love with an idealized version of her. It's been much harder to maintain loving feelings for the "real her".

All those things like you describe, I could handle easily, if she made me feel like I was her man.

Instead, she acts like the ice queen towards me, and I am supposed to take care of her every mood swing in hopes of winning her approval, so that she will act warmly towards me for a brief time until I do some other thing that sets her off and makes her decide to be cold again.

And when she feels like I'm not going to marry her, suddenly she becomes "all about the money", trying to get me to agree to give her money when she goes back, telling me what she thinks I am obligated to do for her, etc.

[Phil N 4]

I visited last night with an ex-girlfriend who has rented from me for the last three years.

This woman left her ex-husband for another man, and when she came back to the house to get some of her things, she was beaten by him with a baseball bat, about 30-40 blows, and required multiple surgeries, etc. on ankles, wrists, hands, etc. over several years, and lots of physical therapy just to walk, talk, and live normally again.

He wedged a knife into the refrigerator door, and then backed himself into it to make it look like she had stabbed him.

Somehow, the cops and the system bought it enough that he never faced criminal charges.

Because she was incapacitated for about the next 12-18 months, he was given custody of their two children, ages 6 and 9.

He was found financially responsible/liable in civil proceedings, and wound up having to pay her medical costs, etc., but never served jail time for this violent assault.

I know all this boggles the mind, but it is 100% true.

Last night when I was visiting with her, and told her about my fiancee, and my suspicions that she has BPD, she dropped the bombshell: She believes her ex is also a high functioning undiagnosed BPD. Suddenly, it all made sense. The beating was an outburst of BPD toddler rage. And then he had the cleverness and manipulativeness to create a cover story, and the ability to be convincing enough in presenting that cover story to authorities. I have observed this man use the children during the intervening years to try to control her (he still has primary custody) and do many other things that struck me as a little "off", outside of normal.

She and I compared notes, about the splitting, about the projection of feelings, and of course the toddler rage episodes, and on down the list, and it was almost like we were talking about the same person. Disclaimer: while neither has been professionally diagnosed as BPD, let's just say that both my fiancee and my friend's ex-husband display nearly the complete range of BPD-like behaviors. She also did things during the marriage to try to win his approval, that wound up being outside the bounds of legal and financial propriety, that resulted in her being in a lot of trouble. Now I understand what she was dealing with, trying to win and keep the approval of a person whom there is simply no pleasing, and who sucks you into their alternate, twisted reality, to the point you lose touch with your own reality.

[DeeDee&Sam 68]

before the interview she should have had a medical certificate stating she doesnt have any mental problems. what you're talking about seems either bipolar or borderline disorder. did she ever try to hurt herself, victimize herself? because that sounds a lot like borderline. people who have borderline disorder, can end up killing themselves if they dont get what they want. in your case theres no child of your own involved so consider yourself lucky. but dude that sounds insane. i didnt read all the pages of this topic, but did you try taking her to a therapist or a psychiatrist to see if she can get a diagnosis and treatment for it? because i think there are treatments for bipolars

[nane1104 146]

before the interview she should have had a medical certificate stating she doesnt have any mental problems. what you're talking about seems either bipolar or borderline disorder. did she ever try to hurt herself, victimize herself? because that sounds a lot like borderline. people who have borderline disorder, can end up killing themselves if they dont get what they want. in your case theres no child of your own involved so consider yourself lucky. but dude that sounds insane. i didnt read all the pages of this topic, but did you try taking her to a therapist or a psychiatrist to see if she can get a diagnosis and treatment for it? because i think there are treatments for bipolars

During your medical they might have that question on a form, I don't remember exactly. For her to answer that question with "yes", it would require a diagnosis. Her fiance diagnosed her with BPD already and he started his own version of treatment...until she tried killing him, herself and her daughter by taking over the steering wheel while going 60miles/h.

Any suggestions from people here to have her properly evaluated fell on deaf ears.

[Golden Gate 530]

During your medical they might have that question on a form, I don't remember exactly. For her to answer that question with "yes", it would require a diagnosis. Her fiance diagnosed her with BPD already and he started his own version of treatment...until she tried killing him, herself and her daughter by taking over the steering wheel while going 60miles/h.

Any suggestions from people here to have her properly evaluated fell on deaf ears.

Yes, I guess we, as visa petitioners, are totally misinformed about a complex relationship that has taken place somewhere in America, between two people we have never seen, and therefore not qualified to express our opinions on such deep psychological issues, although they were asked for, apparently to be then denigrated, on a public forum that is for immigration purposes.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Golden Gate

[Phil N 4]

During your medical they might have that question on a form, I don't remember exactly. For her to answer that question with "yes", it would require a diagnosis. Her fiance diagnosed her with BPD already and he started his own version of treatment...until she tried killing him, herself and her daughter by taking over the steering wheel while going 60miles/h.

Any suggestions from people here to have her properly evaluated fell on deaf ears.

Uh, excuse me, could you try to stay factual on this one, with regard to the deaf ears part?

I have repeatedly attempted to get her in for proper diagnosis. Exactly how do you propose to "force" an unwilling participant to do such a thing?

Oh, she "agreed" to do an assessment (for BPD, and possibly PTSD as well) AFTER we were married.

So that is another clue, she is trying anything and everything to achieve that *married* status, because that's apparently when her master plan kicks in.