Has this story ever turned out well for American man and Russian woman?

[psychasthenia 9]

Really? and here I was representing myself as a clinical psychologist and all...

Maybe you could point out where I did that. The question is why you would insinuate I did so, or that I am too stupid to understand such an elementary thing. By the way in a lot of this literature that is specifically a tactic people with personality disorders do - they go on the attack "invalidating" anyone with knowledge of manipulative behavior. What they say is exactly what you just said: you are not a board certified clinical psychologist and therefore what you say is invalid. That is of course a logical fallacy. You have to show what it is someone says that is not true, and cite your source.

See how you feel qualfied to pose as a clinical psychologist yourself in handing out your opinion, like this one right here, without any background whatsoever? How are your actions consistent with your own words here?

If you want to point out as many of these authors do that remission is possible, or at least keeping it at bay is possible, well yes I agree and this "disagreement" is completely without basis. But there again neither of us is a clinical psychologist. So despite the fact we agree on this, there is no basis for either one of us saying it in the first place, despite the clinical psychologists themselves saying it. According to your premise.

Cheers anyway.

Rlogan, I do not need to pose as a clinical psychologist. And you should read up on board certified clinical psychologists. You probably meant to write licensed clinical psychologists. A very small minority of psychologists are board certified. It's not required and very few psychologists do it.

Again, I understand that you have read several books about personality disorders. Good for you. Your statement about the tactic is inaccurate. Some people who have personality disorders and are told about their diagnosis are actually relieved. They are relieved to know that there is a name for what they experience. They are glad to know that there are treatments out there for their difficulties. Other people with personality disorders do not respond the same way. It all varies. It also depends on who diagnoses them.

You seem to be fixated on the idea of manipulation. You seem to think that people with personality disorders manipulate others. Some do, some don't. Some do it consciously, some do it unconsciously.

I probably did not articulate my thoughts well last time. I meant to write that BPD is a an extremely heterogenous category with people who have different criteria and different levels of severity. You can never make sweeping statements about someone with BPD unless you know their particulars very well, their history, treatments, relationships, etc.

[theViking 0]

I see a big bit train wreck coming. The Original Poster ignored ALL red flags when bringing this woman to the USA. Send the bi-polar nutjob back ASAP!! Get a lawyer and send her back!! Document EVERYTHING with friends and a lawyer before she accuses you of Domestic Violence in order to bleed you dry financially and in order for her to fraudulently stay in the USA. We don't need her and you don't want the nightmare that she is going to make your life into!!

[theViking 0]

Talk to her? How would this be possible when the only English words she will say to me are "F--- You!" Otherwise, she will speak only in Russian, apparently cursing and me and/or mocking me in front of her daughter. It started a couple weeks ago, when she told me that if I displease her, she loses her motivation to speak to me in English, and will speak to me only in Russian. The last two days, we are starting to almost communicate in email, so that is a positive development.

To stop getting messaegs? Possibly you are "subscribed" to the list or this thread, so check your subscription settings to see if that's the problem, and how you stop receiving messages.

Right now I am checking pricing on changing the return tickets to send her back to her country sooner, like ASAP.

If she decides she wants to stay and do BPD assessment and, if indicated, treatment, I will make that possible for her.

For now, we are mostly avoiding each other and I'm spending as little time at the house as possible. She and her daughter normally sleep until around noon or 2pm.

I'm hoping she will soon be willing to speak to me in English in person again, because that would make it a lot easier to discuss and negotiate and figure out what to do from here.

There is absolutely NOTHING to discuss or negotiate. You are just as guilty of behavioral problems as she is!! You invited this trainwreck into your home, thinking you might be able to "fix" it because you wanted sex!! YOU are delusional if you think that either she or you knows what love is!!

YOU need to change the locks and get her OUT of your house ASAP!! Hire a bodyguard and a P.I. if need be to assist you, but get it done!!

Do NOT let her live in your other house. She will probably just trash it. And remember that her daughter is on HER side and will testi lie against you!!

Get a grip man!!

[Phil N 4]

There is absolutely NOTHING to discuss or negotiate. You are just as guilty of behavioral problems as she is!! You invited this trainwreck into your home, thinking you might be able to "fix" it because you wanted sex!! YOU are delusional if you think that either she or you knows what love is!!

YOU need to change the locks and get her OUT of your house ASAP!! Hire a bodyguard and a P.I. if need be to assist you, but get it done!!

Do NOT let her live in your other house. She will probably just trash it. And remember that her daughter is on HER side and will testi lie against you!!

Get a grip man!!

She's BPD, not bipolar. She would be considered a high-functioning BPD.

[Phil N 4]

Update:

I have had the BPD conversation with her. She appears to be sincerely considering the BPD assessment.

Her first reaction was that "I" must have it and she would do the assessment if I did it first.

I have been using many of the skills and strategies from "Stop Walking On Eggshells" and "One Way Ticket to Kansas".

Something that has given amazing results is recognizing when she is projecting her fears and emotions onto me, and acknowledging HER underlying emotion, that is being expressed in the attempted attack on me. This seems to defuse her anger and result in her then opening up about the real issue, and her fears and her feelings. Also, I encourage her to feel and express her emotions, without judging her. We have had amazing conversations the last couple nights, yes, with the help of a bottle of vodka between us to dull her emotions (and my inhibitions) a little, but do what works.

She responds very well to sincere praise and appreciation for her good points and good actions. She has many, many good things about her, so it's not that hard to find a few. For example, she is an amazing, frugal shopper who gets incredible value for money. She does not waste my money. She also finds a lot of joy in simply being in the kitchen and preparing meals.

She is very self-aware in her own way. I told her that she rearranges the facts and events in her head to match her emotions. To my surprise, she acknowledged and agreed with me on this! So I've largely stopped trying to point out to her when she is incorrect about facts, sequence of events, etc., and to just respond to her underlying emotions instead. This is giving MUCH better results than pointing out to her where she is inventing things that didn't happen. She has openly discussed her "police" remarks, and explained how she was feeling and where that came from. (It made sense to me, from her point of view, though it still scared the sh-- out of me, and I will continue to have it in the forefront of my mind)

I have learned a LOT about her history the past few nights. Her history, as best as I can read between the lines, is that she does NOT try to hurt others and go berserk in relationship breakups. This is MY analysis of her stories, not her self-serving statements. I have learned a lot of her secrets (and told her many of mine). I learned more about the widow situation. She is not really a widow. The situation was more that a heroin-addicted boyfriend committed suicide by overdose, on a night when they argued and she left him over his drug habit. He pleaded with her to stay with him that night, and the next day he was found dead. She blames herself for this. For almost a year, she tried to help him beat his habit, arranged 3 different rehab clinic stays for him, spent large amounts of her money trying to help him get clean.

She has done nothing to damage me or my possessions, since the one outburst, even though she has had many, many chances. If she was trying to "act" to get a green card, she would conduct herself in a very different way. I believe she was sincere in her intentions in coming here. Intimate life is almost beginning to approach normal.

In a shocker to me, she has made peace with a lifelong best friend who she had previously "split" and had not spoken to for a year. She reached out to the friend.

The hardest part is that coping with her BPD behaviors requires extra effort, and takes some of the joy out of being around her. This has been improving, possibly due to me improving in how I respond to her.

This does NOT mean I am going to marry her. It means only that I am going to continue learning BPD-related mindsets and skills for communicating with her. We are closing in on 30 days out of the 90-day window.

So is this a mind-blowing thing to read, or what? Of course, it could all change tomorrow, I could be "split" again at any moment...

[TomT2566 1]

Phil,

It doesn't matter whether she has bi-polar disorder or not. Is this the life that you want? The behavior that you are witnessing now is a pale parody of what you will see after you are married.

p.s.

Come to ruadventures (dot) com. Many of us have already gone throught the meatgrinder.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Update:

We have had amazing conversations the last couple nights, yes, with the help of a bottle of vodka between us to dull her emotions (and my inhibitions) a little, but do what works.

Intimate life is almost beginning to approach normal.

.

Time to tie the knot. Go for it. Surprise her with a wedding tomorrow.

[Phil N 4]

Time to tie the knot. Go for it. Surprise her with a wedding tomorrow.

You know, you're right. I think I'll marry her tomorrow. Two good days in a row is enough. She's shown me all I need to see. Thankfully, I already have the marriage license, so that will make it even easier to pull off the surprise tomorrow.

And I thought "I" was stark raving mad, for not having given her the boot already.

A wedding tomorrow, now THAT would truly be insanity... ;-)

If nothing else, I hope my story, my "journey" has been entertaining and better drama than most of the schlock on TV or at the theaters...

And the ending is still to be written.

[Phil N 4]

Phil,

It doesn't matter whether she has bi-polar disorder or not. Is this the life that you want? The behavior that you are witnessing now is a pale parody of what you will see after you are married.

p.s.

Come to ruadventures (dot) com. Many of us have already gone throught the meatgrinder.

I will go visit there at ruadventures dot com. Thanks for the tip!

She has Borderline Personality Disorder (my amateur diagnosis), absolutely not Bipolar Disorder. Very different things.

Yes, I am asking myself if this is the life I want. I am going to give her longer to show how things would be.

Strange as it sounds, I am actually really looking forward to going home and seeing her tonight.

With everything I have learned, I am now almost certain that my "wicked stepmother" is also a BPD. My wicked stepmother destroyed my relationship with my father, but she was a loving and doting wife to him, and took care of him diligently for 2 years of colon cancer before he died last year. She was not a parent herself, so she was unsupportive of his efforts to be a father. I was "split" by her, because of what I represented (my father's prior relationship), not because of what I did. My father "walked on eggshells" because of her, involving his relationships with his 3 children. I was disgusted by him for having no balls and not sticking up for being involved in the lives of his children. Anyway, I digress. It seems it can be possible to have at least a partially successful relationship with a BPD, based on his example. Had she been a parent, like my girl, things might have been quite different.

[TomT2566 1]

We await you here:

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=14882.msg217094;topicseen#msg217094

[HannahP 119]

Anyway, now the task at hand is to figure out how to clean up this mess.

Oh, give me a break.

Are you a troll? Now you're seeing BPD everywhere?

[Golden Gate 530]

With everything I have learned, I am now almost certain that my "wicked stepmother" is also a BPD.

Perhaps this is a clue - you are still considering the possibility of marrying your 'wicked step-mother' and reliving your horrid childhood all over again. Sounds like a dream come true.

[Phil N 4]

Oh, give me a break.

Are you a troll? Now you're seeing BPD everywhere?

Oh no, not the "troll" thing again! Are you a troll by asking me that? How would you feel if you were in the middle of this mess?

In dealing with a BPD, one of the #1 things they say is to "stay connected" to external reality and other people, so as not to get totally sucked into the BPD's world. The connections with people here are helping me beyond belief. Can you let go of the troll thing already?

My wicked stepmother clearly had some type of personality disorder. It has a lot in common with what I've been learning about BPD issues. Is it BPD? Who knows, and who cares. It could be any of a dozen other things. I'm not going to spend the energy to dig further or attempt an amateur diagnosis for her. She is no longer a significant factor in my life. As a BPD-like person, she was actually a very good wife to my father, with the exception of one area: His children, e.g., me. She "split" me and made me evil just for existing, in a very BPD-like way. And it was much worse for my sister, who was my father's little sunshine before the wicked stepmother. Intense jealousy/abandonment issues, involving my father. What I'm really saying is that people with BPD-like behaviors can be good partners, and that I have a personal example in my life.

[cdneh 3,112]

Armchair psychology at it's finest. I wish you luck. You are going to need every last bit that you can muster.

[Hammer2722 2]

Dude, you are soooo screwed!!!!! I can already tell that you will end up marrying this woman before this is all over. As far as I'm concerned, if you marry this nutjob, You have brought it all on yourself. enough said.............

Edited August 4, 2011 by Hammer2722