Petition to Support Affirmative Action in Basketball

[slim 1,533]

Affirmative Action does exist in real, tangible policy terms - but people rarely seem interested in discussing that.

Is that like when out of 10 new cops that are hired at least two - regardless of scores - must be black?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Is that like when out of 10 new cops that are hired at least two - regardless of scores - must be black?

I don't know. Is it?

[Zero Sum 305]

People should be responsible for their own destiny, that is true. But I think it's rather easy for someone to say "move on" when they have little to no idea about how one person's experience in society might well differ quite radically from their own. In that respect I think its lazy to make pedestrian statements dismissing issues that are real for many people, just as it is lazy for an individual to use "history" to detract from their own personal failures.

The reason things like Affirmative Action persist is because certain ethnic demographics occupy a lower rung of the socio-economic ladder (lower incomes, higher likelihood of experiencing jail, greater likelihood of being in poverty, greater chance of family breakdown etc.). The reasons for this are complex, and raise questions that can't be easily answered by social scientists who actually study such things (let alone random people on internet message boards), but if there are indeed marked differences between racial groups as it pertains to the quality of life experienced by one group as opposed to another, it does make you wonder what is going on to cause these disparities. Surely only so much of that can be attributed to individual attitudes and things like "culture", rather than say a set of conditions that exist in society which make it less likely for people from certain communities or backgrounds to succeed.

The Affirmative Action people talk about in these threads is an idea - and people prefer to view it that way because that makes it easier to attack as they can take creative licence with what it means in real terms. Affirmative Action does exist in real, tangible policy terms - but people rarely seem interested in discussing that.

Excellent post here. I hope it gets read carefully. It provides a complete opinion as to what AA was created for, what it was supposed to do, and even some of the anger that pushes against it nowadays that tends to lie in the 'scapegoating' line of reasoning from some, in some cases.

[Zero Sum 305]

You justified it in a different manner by taking the historical approach. That still doesn't change the fact that you support a racist policy.

And yes, AA is racist. It discriminates on the basis of skin color. Calling that anything other than racist is simply false.

You didn't brand me as a racist and I didn't say you did.

Society does. Society looks at (white) folks who don't support AA and accuses them of being racist. Since we're having reading/comprehension problems, here's another video -

Prove to me where I say I support it. You can't because you know you'd be lying. I have already clarified what my position is on the matter. Learn to read or learn to shut it without regurgitating your illogical silliness.

Its racist to you, slim. Something you share in common with other people that happen to subscribe to loony thinking about what creates societies and how they function.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Prove to me where I say I support it. You can't because you know you'd be lying. I have already clarified what my position is on the matter. Learn to read or learn to shut it without regurgitating your illogical silliness.

Its racist to you, slim. Something you share in common with other people that happen to subscribe to loony thinking about what creates societies and how they function.

AA is racist period. Racist is racist and AA is racist.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Why_Me

[Zero Sum 305]

Case in point.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Excellent post here. I hope it gets read carefully. It provides a complete opinion as to what AA was created for, what it was supposed to do, and even some of the anger that pushes against it nowadays that tends to lie in the 'scapegoating' line of reasoning from some, in some cases.

Slim's example would be an example of a bad Affirmative Action policy, if it's assumed that police hiring decisions were made solely on the basis of racial quotas, regardless of whether the "affirmed" applicants meet the entry requirements.

Of course, there was that recent case of the black fire service applicants who passed the entrance exams but didn't get jobs because the people making the hiring decisions cherry picked applicants who scored above the pass line (effectively raising the pass line for everyone else).

Even here though - it's rarely clear cut.

[Zero Sum 305]

Slim's example would be an example of a bad Affirmative Action policy, if it's assumed that police hiring decisions were made solely on the basis of racial quotas, regardless of whether the "affirmed" applicants meet the entry requirements.

Of course, there was that recent case of the black fire service applicants who passed the entrance exams but didn't get jobs because the people making the hiring decisions cherry picked applicants who scored above the pass line (effectively raising the pass line for everyone else).

Even here though - it's rarely clear cut.

I did ask for better AA details-or what they (I believe I asked Simpson) to elaborate on how he would have made AA 'better.' All I got was limited information- although Simpson did give somewhat of an answer. When it comes down to specifying details they rant about (others), they offer little in terms of substance. Some people are just born to whine I guess.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Zero Sum

[slim 1,533]

I don't know. Is it?

Of course it is. That's affirmative action. Having a requirement that a certain number of people - regardless of qualifications - be employed simply based on their skin color.

According to some, that's not racist.

a complete opinion as to what AA was created for, what it was supposed to do,

Does it do any of what it was created for?

Prove to me where I say I support it. You can't because you know you'd be lying. I have already clarified what my position is on the matter. Learn to read or learn to shut it without regurgitating your illogical silliness.

So, in all the stuff that I've been reading I've been wrong to conclude that you support affirmative action? That you are, in fact, against it?

You're claiming here that you've been playing (white) devil's advocate simply to get your point across that AA is based on the reality of historical indifferences and a lack of opportunity for blacks and NOT that you actually support it?

Its racist to you, slim.

I think a policy of employing only white people is racist. Do you agree with that?

[Zero Sum 305]

Multiple quotes incoming?

[slim 1,533]

the people making the hiring decisions cherry picked applicants who scored above the pass line

Clearly a racist policy to demand those who get a job pass the entrance exam.

[Zero Sum 305]

Indeed it was.

Of course it is. That's affirmative action. Having a requirement that a certain number of people - regardless of qualifications - be employed simply based on their skin color.

According to some, that's not racist.

Does it do any of what it was created for?

So, in all the stuff that I've been reading I've been wrong to conclude that you support affirmative action? That you are, in fact, against it?

You're claiming here that you've been playing (white) devil's advocate simply to get your point across that AA is based on the reality of historical indifferences and a lack of opportunity for blacks and NOT that you actually support it?

I think a policy of employing only white people is racist. Do you agree with that?

Is there some kind of reasoning for those policies or are they just pulled out of slimsense again? Clearly you continue to refuse to acknowledge reality on this.

You can read my positions. Don't be lazy.

[slim 1,533]

Multiple quotes incoming?

I still think you should stick to the "because you disagree with me you have reading comprehension problems."

When you change your lack of answer answers it could throw people (especially those of us with reading comprehension problems) off.

[Zero Sum 305]

I still think you should stick to the "because you disagree with me you have reading comprehension problems."

When you change your lack of answer answers it could throw people (especially those of us with reading comprehension problems) off.

And I think you should learn to read things properly.

[slim 1,533]

you continue to refuse to acknowledge reality on this.

You support a racist policy. That is reality.

A policy based strictly on skin color is racist and you, by your posts here, clearly support it.