Petition to Support Affirmative Action in Basketball

[Zero Sum 305]

There's only so long anyone should bang on the historical drum. Yes, we can remember history, but we don't need to continually be defined by it. There was an interesting article I read many years ago, written by a therapist who was talking about a patient who was there blaming her mother for things that happened early in her life. The patient was like 70 years old or so.

Basically, the jist of the article was 'yeah, bad things happen and they suck, but there's only so long you can/should be using it as an excuse to define you and your actions for your life'

I agree. No matter how bad the cause was, and how bad the effect IS, people need to move on. Society as a whole needs to come to terms with the past to know its present in order to move on into the future. Therapists frequently use this line of reasoning.

Too bad there is denialism past and present as well as pessimistic placating of where to go from now. In all of this there are some- granted not enough... stories of people pulling themselves up as they should, and attaining success. But pessimists will always be pessimists.

[Fandango 1,440]

I agree. No matter how bad the cause was, and how bad the effect IS, people need to move on. Society as a whole needs to come to terms with the past to know its present in order to move on into the future. Therapists frequently use this line of reasoning.

Too bad there is denialism past and present as well as pessimistic placating of where to go from now. In all of this there are some- granted not enough... stories of people pulling themselves up as they should, and attaining success. But pessimists will always be pessimists.

But you've mention history so often on this topic, so it's hard to not understand how you may not have a pessimistic view of letting go and letting people succeed off their own backs, despite what happened to all of our ancestors.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Topic necromancy

We haven't had a thread about the gays in a while - we've got to be about due for one, surely.

Edited July 12, 2011 by fishdude

[Fandango 1,440]

Topic necromancy

We haven't had a thread about the gays in a while - we've got to be about due for one, surely.

Excellent contribution!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Topic necromancy

We haven't had a thread about the gays in a while - we've got to be about due for one, surely.

We touched on it a bit (no pun intended) over in the "California being the 51st" state thread.

[Zero Sum 305]

But you've mention history so often on this topic, so it's hard to not understand how you may not have a pessimistic view of letting go and letting people succeed off their own backs, despite what happened to all of our ancestors.

Because its causal.

That cause has led us into a present day with clear community implications. AA tried to correct at least part of that, for some individuals, and was prostituted into a system that clearly has antagonized other segments of the population: some for being racists themselves, others on the other extreme, for being innocent victims of limited spaces. One could say tough luck... as was repeatedly told to others throughout history.

But I will not, and personally all my dealings with people throughout my life as an adult (service, work, school) have dealt with merit and not on outwards appearances. Unfortunately the pessimists are others that display frequent reading f*ckups.

Topic necromancy

We haven't had a thread about the gays in a while - we've got to be about due for one, surely.

Give it time.

Matter of fact, I challenge you to start one about AA benefits to gay blacks in securing hair salon employment.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Excellent contribution!

It fits the quality of the topic.

Endless posturing and rhetoricising about alleged racism resulting from undefined government policies under the vague banner of "Affirmative Action".

Not forgetting of course the obligatory statement about how reverse racism doesn't exist.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Matter of fact, I challenge you to start one about AA benefits to gay blacks in securing hair salon employment.

I'm waiting for someone to post the spiel about Black Entertainment Television, Black History Month and Black Pride - and why there is not "white alternative".

[Zero Sum 305]

I'm waiting for someone to post the spiel about Black Entertainment Television, Black History Month and Black Pride - and why there is not "white alternative".

I can tell you didn't read the whole thread.

But you are definitely barking up the right tree.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I can tell you didn't read the whole thread.

But you are definitely barking up the right tree.

Well no, I didn't. I have to admit

[slim 1,530]

No.

So you're saying, in this whole thread, you've never advocated a government policy that's beneficiaries are chosen strictly based on their skin color alone and for no other factor?

Who has the reading problem? I know I'm not really good at this but are you really sitting there at your computer typing away and claiming you're not advocating a discriminatory policy? Seriously?

I better be careful because the Reading Rainbow might say I stated otherwise.

Reading Rainbow. I like that! (Don't forget, I've been ID'd as Slime today as well.)

addresses the reverse racism whining by some around here- while completely ignoring historical reality.

How do you measure the guilt you feel?

Is 40 acres and a mule enough? Could you possibly, somehow, ever get rid of all that guilt you've been trained to have?

I'm willing to bet you could give 40 acres and a mule to someone and he'd make it into a subsidized, government-supported super farm. Then there's probably someone who would take it and run it succesfully and feed their family. Someone else would probably sell it and use the profits to do what they've always dreamed of doing.

I could even go so far as to say one of them would probably get drunk and lose it in a craps game.

None of that would be racist.

What would be racist is saying that anyone who's black needs a free farm in order to be succesful because they could never do it on their own. That's our policy. That's affirmative action. That's the institutionalized racism that's acceptable to us today.

It's not acceptable to me. But what's funny is when I speak out against it... I'm a racist.

[Zero Sum 305]

Well no, I didn't. I have to admit

Oh you should. I think you will realize something about being the one that arrived shortly, some time later. You know, self-fulfilling lunacy stuff because it is what it is.

[Zero Sum 305]

So you're saying, in this whole thread, you've never advocated a government policy that's beneficiaries are chosen strictly based on their skin color alone and for no other factor?

Who has the reading problem? I know I'm not really good at this but are you really sitting there at your computer typing away and claiming you're not advocating a discriminatory policy? Seriously?

Reading Rainbow. I like that! (Don't forget, I've been ID'd as Slime today as well.)

How do you measure the guilt you feel?

Is 40 acres and a mule enough? Could you possibly, somehow, ever get rid of all that guilt you've been trained to have?

I'm willing to bet you could give 40 acres and a mule to someone and he'd make it into a subsidized, government-supported super farm. Then there's probably someone who would take it and run it succesfully and feed their family. Someone else would probably sell it and use the profits to do what they've always dreamed of doing.

I could even go so far as to say one of them would probably get drunk and lose it in a craps game.

None of that would be racist.

What would be racist is saying that anyone who's black needs a free farm in order to be succesful because they could never do it on their own. That's our policy. That's affirmative action. That's the institutionalized racism that's acceptable to us today.

It's not acceptable to me. But what's funny is when I speak out against it... I'm a racist.

I stated something different. Perhaps you will spot it, as I can't do your reading for you. Although even if you did find it, you'd probably mess up reading that too. As for reparations... well... specify reparations for slavery (something different from the argument of AA, btw, not that you really care), and we'll see about that.

If this 'racist' AA claims black farmers can't accomplish self-made success on their own [due to what, genius, and which ones can't?], then perhaps you're reading AA laws that don't exist.

Its odd as I haven't branded you a racist either. Care to share who accused you of that?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I agree. No matter how bad the cause was, and how bad the effect IS, people need to move on. Society as a whole needs to come to terms with the past to know its present in order to move on into the future. Therapists frequently use this line of reasoning.

Too bad there is denialism past and present as well as pessimistic placating of where to go from now. In all of this there are some- granted not enough... stories of people pulling themselves up as they should, and attaining success. But pessimists will always be pessimists.

People should be responsible for their own destiny, that is true. But I think it's rather easy for someone to say "move on" when they have little to no idea about how one person's experience in society might well differ quite radically from their own. In that respect I think its lazy to make pedestrian statements dismissing issues that are real for many people, just as it is lazy for an individual to use "history" to detract from their own personal failures.

The reason things like Affirmative Action persist is because certain ethnic demographics occupy a lower rung of the socio-economic ladder (lower incomes, higher likelihood of experiencing jail, greater likelihood of being in poverty, greater chance of family breakdown etc.). The reasons for this are complex, and raise questions that can't be easily answered by social scientists who actually study such things (let alone random people on internet message boards), but if there are indeed marked differences between racial groups as it pertains to the quality of life experienced by one group as opposed to another, it does make you wonder what is going on to cause these disparities. Surely only so much of that can be attributed to individual attitudes and things like "culture", rather than say a set of conditions that exist in society which make it less likely for people from certain communities or backgrounds to succeed.

The Affirmative Action people talk about in these threads is an idea - and people prefer to view it that way because that makes it easier to attack as they can take creative licence with what it means in real terms. Affirmative Action does exist in real, tangible policy terms - but people rarely seem interested in discussing that.

[slim 1,530]

I stated something different.

You justified it in a different manner by taking the historical approach. That still doesn't change the fact that you support a racist policy.

And yes, AA is racist. It discriminates on the basis of skin color. Calling that anything other than racist is simply false.

Its odd as I haven't branded you a racist either. Care to share who accused you of that?

You didn't brand me as a racist and I didn't say you did.

Society does. Society looks at (white) folks who don't support AA and accuses them of being racist. Since we're having reading/comprehension problems, here's another video -