Congressman Ready to Impeach Obama For Debt Limit Scheme

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

On the other hand, these guys are not insane ...

Are you sure about that?

[scandal 951]

Are you sure about that?

Dude, they're the lackeys of Wall St. One thing The Man ensures is that his bought-and-paid-for minions are under control and will do as they're told. Crazy is not in the job description.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Dude, they're the lackeys of Wall St.

Yes, and Wall Street doesn't give a first ** about this country either. If there's a buck to be made by taking this sucker down, then Wall Street will do what it can to take the sucker down. Wall Street is the very definition of insanity.

[Used to be broken 147]

How does not raising the debt ceiling effectively question the validity of the public debt of the US? The US can repay its public debt based on current revenues. It may not be able to continue funding all of the entitlements at the same time. But refusing to borrow more money in no way questions the validity of the present debt.

All the more reason to stop Corporate welfare and create an equitable tax system so we can raise the revenue to end this crazy discussion. The segment of congress playing around with the full faith and credit of the US Government is committing an act of treason IMHO. We pay our debts its crazy irresponsible talk to rob the vested entitlements like Social Security and Medicare so we can float tax breaks to people at the high end of the tax base or corporate entities. We need to stop buying into this gibberish that our paid in SS is some kind of friggin gift. SS would be flush if the Congress hadn't started raiding it and its complete malarky to be discussing dipping into it. If your 401k plan decided to take some cream off the top to pay other bills you would scream bloody murder and that is what taxpayers should be doing right now.

If we are going to cut entitlements lets start with the full pension and health care plan the Legislature gets after one term in office.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If we are going to cut entitlements lets start with the full pension and health care plan the Legislature gets after one term in office.

They shouldn't get better benefits than our military that have to put in 20 years to get a full pension.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[scandal 951]

Yes, and Wall Street doesn't give a first ** about this country either. If there's a buck to be made by taking this sucker down, then Wall Street will do what it can to take the sucker down. Wall Street is the very definition of insanity.

Wall St is rapacious, voracious and greedy. But it is not (in general) crazy, nor is it insane (although individual participants no doubt are). Nor is it anti-America. Lloyd Blankfein, John Mack, Jamie Dimon --- these guys all live in this country, have their homes here, their families here. They do not want to see a bankrupted and ruined America. I shed no tears for them and have no love for them, but I do respect their self-interest in not wanting to see a massive financial panic induced by benchmark T-bills suddenly going to 70 or 60 cents on the dollar and rates jacking up to nosebleed territory. They are greedy, but no they are not crazy.

All the more reason to stop Corporate welfare and create an equitable tax system so we can raise the revenue to end this crazy discussion. The segment of congress playing around with the full faith and credit of the US Government is committing an act of treason IMHO. We pay our debts its crazy irresponsible talk to rob the vested entitlements like Social Security and Medicare so we can float tax breaks to people at the high end of the tax base or corporate entities. We need to stop buying into this gibberish that our paid in SS is some kind of friggin gift. SS would be flush if the Congress hadn't started raiding it and its complete malarky to be discussing dipping into it. If your 401k plan decided to take some cream off the top to pay other bills you would scream bloody murder and that is what taxpayers should be doing right now.

If we are going to cut entitlements lets start with the full pension and health care plan the Legislature gets after one term in office.

I agree with your sentiment on this statement:

The segment of congress playing around with the full faith and credit of the US Government is committing an act of treason

I don't think it rises to the level of treason necessarily but it certainly isn't serving the public interest.

As to the rest of your statements regarding SS, I don't quite agree. It's not true that SS would be flush without being restructured. It's not a question of "raiding". It's a question of Baby Boomer demographics. Quite simply the level of benefits is too high given the supporting workforce and that problem is only going to get worse as more and more Boomers retire. Americans want generous benefits but don't see to want to pay for them. That is a true dilemma. Personally I favor a combination of reduced benefits (e.g. raising eligibility age, indexing to wage growth rather than CPI) and also phasing in higher payroll taxes (e.g. raise the SS wage base beyond $106K). Something has to give.

Your comparison to 401K plans is not accurate either. A 401K is a personal plan in which every $1 contributed (or employee match, subject to vesting) is truly "your" property and you have a growing balance to invest. SS does not work that way. Your payroll contributions are not used for your personal benefits. They are used for other retirees. One day when you retire your benefits will be paid for by workers of a younger generation. The system can be made sound, but it needs reform to account for the Baby Boom swelling the ranks of the retired.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Wall St is rapacious, voracious and greedy. But it is not (in general) crazy, nor is it insane (although individual participants no doubt are). Nor is it anti-America. Lloyd Blankfein, John Mack, Jamie Dimon --- these guys all live in this country, have their homes here, their families here. They do not want to see a bankrupted and ruined America. I shed no tears for them and have no love for them, but I do respect their self-interest in not wanting to see a massive financial panic induced by benchmark T-bills suddenly going to 70 or 60 cents on the dollar and rates jacking up to nosebleed territory. They are greedy, but no they are not crazy.

You've forgotten quite quickly what Wall Street cooked up for this country. Financial crisis ring any bell with you? Did they do that because they care so deeply about America? Really? If these CEO's are America's friends, then Lord knows we do not need any enemies.

[scandal 951]

You've forgotten quite quickly what Wall Street cooked up for this country. Financial crisis ring any bell with you? Did they do that because they care so deeply about America? Really? If these CEO's are America's friends, then Lord knows we do not need any enemies.

I've not forgotten the subprime and CDO and CDS messs. I'm well aware of the direct role played by the investment banks, and the self interested greed they expressed. That's precisely my point: in that situation they had self-interest in perpetuating the bubble. Everyone was making money. Lots of upside to perpetuating it, and no immediate downside. Many probably never really understood the magnitude of the impending crash. Others that did had a conflict between choosing short-term profit vs. long-term planning. They chose the former.

In this case, the situation is not comparable. Nobody stands to benefit from a national default brought on by a failure to increase the Debt Ceiling. I can assure you that none of the bank lobbyists is advocating for a stalemate. Everyone wants a deal that raises the ceiling. That's one thing that gives me some hope we'll get a deal, probably at the 11th hour. The bank lobbyists wouldn't have it any other way, and they do pay the tab.

[mawilson 2,133]

Nobody stands to benefit from a national default brought on by a failure to increase the Debt Ceiling.

Are you sure?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Are you sure?

The country as a whole might benefit in the long run with a bit of austerity.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[scandal 951]

Are you sure?

Yes, I would say so.

Of course there are traders who are taking the short side in a bet that we don't get a deal and the bond and stock markets crater. But fundamentally, institutional money is on the long side of the markets and is invested in long-term stability and growth not in chaos and crashes. Short oriented prop desks or funds might be hoping for a deal collapse, but the M&A business, the underwriting business, the Buy side industry represented by the Mutual funds, pension funds - none of them want a crash.

We have a system in place. A system in which US Treasuries are the highest, peerless standard of stability and creditworthiness. Not just in America, but in the world. All other assets: every other government bond, corporate, muni, warrant, mortgage and retail loan and student loan - ultimately is pegged to the US treasury market. Throw that system into disarray and no one knows where we end up, but it's not good. Bankers are greedy but they're not stupid and they're not suicidal and they are not outside of the system. They're very much part of it and want to see it perpetuated. Their houses in the Hamptons and their own personal accounts are just as much at stake should the system be disrupted.

I have 100% confidence that if you got Lloyd Blankfein or Jamie Dimon off the record (or on it) as to their true views, they would tell you they want a deal struck, and the country vitally needs a deal struck. They don't want a repeat (or worse) of 2008.