worried about RFE letter

[kevinj 19]

Hi all,

I'm turning to the VJ crowd once more for good advice. Here's my situation :

* got K1-visa, got married to a US girl (12-08), obtained conditional green card (4-09)

* relationship ended soon after (9-09). We haven't lived together since, but remain married and filed jointly to remove conditions (4-11). We are still good friends but have not been romantic in any way for almost 2 years now.

I now received a Request for Evidence. I don't know what to make of it and am feeling quite stressed out. My questions:

* What does this letter mean??

* Is this where I should really hire a lawyer? (which I can't really afford, though I probably make too much to qualify for low-income anything)

The letter :

<<<<<

" Please submit the following evidence using the attached form [ ...]

The Conditions Relative (my name) indicate his address is (my address). The spouse indicate (her address). Please explain, and submit evidence to support your claim.

IDENTITY DOCUMENT : Submit legible copies of ...

EVIDENCE OF GOOD FAITH MARRIAGE: To establish eligibility [...], additional documentation be submitted to establish a good faith marriage that covers the period of time from the date of the marriage to the present date. Such examples may include ... [followed by a long list that will be familiar to everyone here]

>>>>>

Now, the thing is, in the statements she and I included in our application, plus a cover letter, it is made very clear that we have long ceased to have a functional marriage, and that we have long lived apart. So I am surprised by this question. Apart from including our addresses, the whole thing is completely non-specific to our case, and makes me wonder if "they" actually even read our application?

Of course, I included pretty much any evidence I could think of in my original application. There's not much more I could send now. This makes me rather worried.

What are your ideas?

Thanks very much,

Kevin

PS My "evidence" of good faith marriage include

- statement by me, her, relatives (including the sponsor), and a friend or two ; all supporting that it was a "love marriage"

- lease signed by both of us for 1 year, some utility bills, homeowner's insurance for the same period

- 3 years of romantic relationship preceding marriage ; expensive rings ; she followed a summer course to learn my (entirely useless) native language

- some photos of us together on road trip, at home, and tending garden together during our short married relationship

- statements from people leading support groups I participated in during/after relationship (couldn't afford a counselor)

- signs of continuing trust and friendship : she's on my health and life insurance, on the title of my vehicle; we have access to each other's bank accounts and filed for taxes jointly; share a phone plan and a car-share membership; statement from housemate that she lived at my house for a month in 02-11 when she couldn't find her own place

(- maybe forgetting a thing or two - I don't have the application here right now)

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

You are not together - you should divorce and file a waiver for joint filing of ROC.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Harpa Timsah

[Darnell 8,479]

One of the sticky bits to successfully receive a 10 year green card, based on yer prior green card type and reason for issuance, is that you two must be domiciled at the same address.

Yer not, you sent in 2 addresses (one on you, one on her) so it hoisted a red flag at USCIS.

[kevinj 19]

You are not together - you should divorce and file a waiver for joint filing of ROC.

Thanks for responding so quickly. However, I'm not sure what you advise - surely it is much too late to do this?

We initially didn't want to divorce because it's emotionally hard; there was, at least for a while, some hope that perhaps things would be okay again sometime. Then the date for ROC approached, and there was no longer time to finish divorce proceedings before filing ROC - and as long as you're not divorced, both partners need to be on the ROC application.

Are you suggesting to divorce now (in the middle of the procedure) and file for ROC again? Thanks for your time.

Kevin

[kevinj 19]

One of the sticky bits to successfully receive a 10 year green card, based on yer prior green card type and reason for issuance, is that you two must be domiciled at the same address.

Yer not, you sent in 2 addresses (one on you, one on her) so it hoisted a red flag at USCIS.

Hi Darnell,

thanks for your reply. I understand that we are not doing what the GC is meant for (a successful marriage). I understand that we set off red flags. However the situation is explained in my ROC application. I have not at all pretended that we're still a functional couple. They already have the answer to their question! I have no idea what else they want to know.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Kevin

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Basically there are 2 ways to ROC:

1. Together - living together, in love, happy etc

2. Separately

- Divorced based on good faith marriage

- Married based on abuse

You are trying to do both 1 and 2 which isn't going to work. For people who have interviews they CAN be separated (Stokes interview, usually the second interview) and be asked personal questions such as:

- what colour is his/her toothbrush

- what colour is the carpet in the living room/bedroom

- when did you last have sex

- what did s/he have for breakfast

- what birth control does she use

... and other stuff like that. This should show to you that they're interested in you being TOGETHER not just married for immigration purposes (which you actually admitted that it was more convenient for ROC) and while I'm sure it WAS a good faith marriage, you filed openly stating that you weren't together in the marriage but she's "helping you" get a GC. See how it looks to the CO?? Not good.

You would be better of filing for divorce, and re-filing as divorced. You can file while in the process of divorce, you will be RFE'd for the divorce decree and if you don't have it in time you will go before an immigration judge who will give you more time to get it. I'm not sure how to go about that so hopefully someone else can help with that.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

There are two ways to file:

1) jointly, if, and only if you are married and live together under one roof in martial bliss.

That's not the case here.

2) singularly, if and only if you are divorced.

That's also no the case here.

The USIS does not recognize the nowhereland of being still friends and living apart. Thus, your petition cannot be adjudicated. They are now aware that you guys live apart and you are already in the twighlightzone as your Green Card expired in April. You will need to produce a divorce decree very quickly, or they will deny your R.O.C. petition. Most likely that will be a few days after the RFE deadline.

Once they do that, the system will automatically seek to get you deported. That will take the signature of a judge, so you'll have you day in court. At this point you'll be glad that you spent thousands of dollars on a good attorney, as he or she will ask the judge to put deportation proceedings on hold until you are divorced, have received your divorce decree, and have forwarded it to USCIS so that they can adjudicate your R.O.C. petition.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Just Bob

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Hi Darnell,

thanks for your reply. I understand that we are not doing what the GC is meant for (a successful marriage). I understand that we set off red flags. However the situation is explained in my ROC application. I have not at all pretended that we're still a functional couple. They already have the answer to their question! I have no idea what else they want to know.

Any ideas?

The evidence you submitted was great.. IF you were filing as divorced. As you're filing together they want recent tax returns of filing together, evidence of living together, evidence of co-mingling of lives, photos together.. stuff you can't provide because you're NOT together.

They're hoping you'll dig your own grave. There IS no way for you to reply successfully because you've already admitted you're not together as a couple.

You need to re-file basically... it's your only way of not being denied and deported.

[Anh map 2,098]

You are applying to remove conditions based on the fact that you are currently a functioning married couple. So they want you to prove it. You have put yourself in limbo as far as the ROC is concerned. Now you have to work your way out of it.

One of the options for the adjudicating officer is to deny your request and then your LPR status would be ended. Kind of a big deal don't you think? That's why others have suggested that you divorce because then you can apply for removal of conditions as a divorced person.

Perhaps a consultation with an immigration attorney would help you to gain clarity here.

[kevinj 19]

You have put yourself in limbo as far as the ROC is concerned. Now you have to work your way out of it.

Perhaps a consultation with an immigration attorney would help you to gain clarity here.

OK, that point is taken. I will see a lawyer as soon as I can. Sounds like things are bad enough that I should have one in any case.

[kevinj 19]

They're hoping you'll dig your own grave. There IS no way for you to reply successfully because you've already admitted you're not together as a couple.

You need to re-file basically... it's your only way of not being denied and deported.

This is so far the only attempt on this thread to explain uscis' communication (as opposed to sending me a more informative letter and telling me what you people are all telling me!) and it's a pretty sad one ...

As if it's not bad enough that I've lived here for six years and still I need to justify my existence. And now all this mess ... which is all about form, not function (doesn't change what happened between people). No use complaining about it, of course.

[kevinj 19]

... This should show to you that they're interested in you being TOGETHER not just married for immigration purposes (which you actually admitted that it was more convenient for ROC) and while I'm sure it WAS a good faith marriage, you filed openly stating that you weren't together in the marriage but she's "helping you" get a GC.

Well, that's not how I see things at all. Call me overly emotional if you wish, but the main reason I haven't initiated divorce yet is that it still hurts so much to think about it.

Of course, if the people at uscis are as some here have suggested, then they probably will take it the worst way possible.

You would be better of filing for divorce, and re-filing as divorced. You can file while in the process of divorce, you will be RFE'd for the divorce decree and if you don't have it in time you will go before an immigration judge who will give you more time to get it.

Sounds like that's the most likely strategy then. I'll see a lawyer as soon as possible.

[kevinj 19]

You will need to produce a divorce decree very quickly, or they will deny your R.O.C. petition.

I wonder how fast that can be done? I'm confident she will cooperate 100%, but from the way people talk about divorce, I've always had the impression it takes months to get it done?

[TBoneTX 46,273]

State regulations vary on how long a couple needs to be separated before they can divorce. Check your state's laws and those of neighboring states to find out where it may be most propitious to apply for divorce.

[rika60607 215]

I think whoever issued that RFE have read your file and knows exactly what's going on. But of course, all you get is a canned response.

You can file for divorce in either her state or yours. You have to get divorced if you want to get your ROC approved (and you do not want to accuse your spouse of abuse).

Check what grounds are allowed for divorce in the state where you live. Since you two were separated for a long time, chances are that you will be able to get an amicable divorce on no-fault grounds/irreconcilable differences within weeks. If there is no children involved and you agree on how to split the property, then you don't need a lawyer for this, you can prepare all the paperwork and do divorce yourself. The downside - each of you will have to get their own medical insurance from the date of divorce.

As far as RFE goes, you must reply to USCIS by the date they have given you, and I suggest you write a letter of explanation and ask them to replace your old petition with a waiver petition (include a new, waiver petition). USCIS will issue a new RFE asking for divorce papers, but you will have some time to obtain them.

I wonder how fast that can be done? I'm confident she will cooperate 100%, but from the way people talk about divorce, I've always had the impression it takes months to get it done?