It's the (Tanking) Economy, Stupid

[GaryC 7]

It goes back to what I highlighted earlier...

...the share of the GDP that goes to wages and salaries has reached a 59-year low, while the share going to corporate profits is at a 40-year high.

A free market is a misnomer... it assumes that true competition exists, and you're errantly assuming that the job market works that way. It can only work that way when someone is being the referee. Just like you wouldn't expect NFL teams to referee themselves, nor should we expect corporations to regulate themselves.

Having a sustainable economy requires true competition. True competition only exists when all the teams are playing by the same rules.

There you go again, bashing the corporate profits. Those big corporations make the jobs that put food on my table and provide my health insurance. Without profits they can't do that. When the government steps in and dictates how they should run their business it ruins the whole backbone of the country. Let the corporations alone. Market forces will dictate which ones succeed and which ones fail.

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the sort of jobs that pay substantial portions of health insurance premiums tend to require a college degree?

Didn't for me. I only have a tech degree. Working hard got me where I am. The vast majority of people I work with don't have a degree. The mean old company that Steve thinks the government should regulate pays for their insurance.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[Jenn! 918]

Didn't for me. I only have a tech degree. Working hard got me where I am. The vast majority of people I work with don't have a degree.

I'm sure you have worked hard and deserve everything that you have.

However, there are only a certain number of positions at a certain number of companies that offer health insurance. What about the other jobs? Not many employers of low wage workers offer health insurance. What are those people to do? Pay out-of-pocket? Work harder, educate themselves and hopefully move into better paying positions that offer insurance? Sure, that's an option. But then who will take those low wage jobs? There will inevitably always be that "lower class" without health insurance. Not everyone can have a great job.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

It's not the government's job to INSURE people, but don't you think there's some merit (or at least moral value) to keeping people alive and healthy?

It comes down to personal responsibility and your own priorities. This government is turning into a nanny state. You get out of life what you put into it. If someone does not want to work hard to better themselves then it isn't my job to take care of them. Now I exclude someone that is disabled or for some reason beyond their control can't work but the idea that I should take care of them just because they are not motivated to work is abhorrent to me!

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

That's utter BS. What a cynical assumption. Personal responsability only goes so far, there are so many factors that effect someone's economic mobility. A person living in a small rural town has less job opportunities than someone who works in a metropolitan area. Instead of blaming people for being poor, we should be looking at solutions beyond telling them to simply go and get a better job. What a farse.

[GaryC 7]

It's not the government's job to INSURE people, but don't you think there's some merit (or at least moral value) to keeping people alive and healthy?

It comes down to personal responsibility and your own priorities. This government is turning into a nanny state. You get out of life what you put into it. If someone does not want to work hard to better themselves then it isn't my job to take care of them. Now I exclude someone that is disabled or for some reason beyond their control can't work but the idea that I should take care of them just because they are not motivated to work is abhorrent to me!

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

That's utter BS. What a cynical assumption. Personal responsability only goes so far, there are so many factors that effect someone's economic mobility. A person living in a small rural town has less job opportunities than someone who works in a metropolitan area. Instead of blaming people for being poor, we should be looking at solutions beyond telling them to simply go and get a better job. What a farse.

Excuse me, I came from a very small rural town. When I didn't like the oportunities that the area offered I moved to somewhere that did offer better chances. It still comes down to personal choices. If your poor it's because you choose to be.

[desert_fox 32]

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the sort of jobs that pay substantial portions of health insurance premiums tend to require a college degree?

that would be wrong....anyone working for any half way decent company offers health insurance...union assembly line workers working for GM for instance..

[Jenn! 918]

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the sort of jobs that pay substantial portions of health insurance premiums tend to require a college degree?

that would be wrong....anyone working for any half way decent company offers health insurance...union assembly line workers working for GM for instance..

oh ok, I honestly wasn't sure.

[desert_fox 32]

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

20 million are here illegally, 2 million are in jail and prision, 5 million are on welfare and dont want to work, and the list goes on.

Even the illegals here w/o insurance can get free medical care...just have to wait in line with the rest.

[Ban Hammer 13,369]

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the sort of jobs that pay substantial portions of health insurance premiums tend to require a college degree?

no.........i work for one of the top 5 defence contractors. health care thru them would eat up 1/3 of a paycheck.

[desert_fox 32]

I need to get my writing stuff going too - otherwise that will likely fall by the wayside when that happens.

You can use me as a reference for your job interview. I know that you can write, and write, and write,.....

good luck at the interview.

[Ban Hammer 13,369]

I need to get my writing stuff going too - otherwise that will likely fall by the wayside when that happens.

You can use me as a reference for your job interview. I know that you can write, and write, and write,.....

good luck at the interview.

he can include in his resume "...a competent and tireless researcher...."

[one...two...tree 2,762]

It's not the government's job to INSURE people, but don't you think there's some merit (or at least moral value) to keeping people alive and healthy?

It comes down to personal responsibility and your own priorities. This government is turning into a nanny state. You get out of life what you put into it. If someone does not want to work hard to better themselves then it isn't my job to take care of them. Now I exclude someone that is disabled or for some reason beyond their control can't work but the idea that I should take care of them just because they are not motivated to work is abhorrent to me!

So you're saying that the 45 million people in this country without health insurance don't have it because they are not motivated to work hard enough for it?

In a word, yes

That's utter BS. What a cynical assumption. Personal responsability only goes so far, there are so many factors that effect someone's economic mobility. A person living in a small rural town has less job opportunities than someone who works in a metropolitan area. Instead of blaming people for being poor, we should be looking at solutions beyond telling them to simply go and get a better job. What a farse.

Excuse me, I came from a very small rural town. When I didn't like the oportunities that the area offered I moved to somewhere that did offer better chances. It still comes down to personal choices. If your poor it's because you choose to be.

It's a complex problem, Gary. You just need to look at Luzy's country and her own family as an example that it isn't entirely about one's personal responsability. I'm all for the American Dream and making people responsible for themselves, but when you're dishing out the responsability, you can't ignore the other players - government and corporations. I just don't think it's productive to simply blame the poor for being poor - they don't need a hand out or blame - they need real solutions. For one, the ones effected by poverty the most are young children. Blame won't put food in their bellies or help them to break out of poverty.

[mmmbop1976 1]

We're not talking about keeping up with the Jones' - we're talking about Americans who can't afford the basics - a home, healthcare, food on their table, and the trend is for a dismal future.

home ownership is at record levels. anybody can buy health insurance from a myriad of companies. oh yeah, you want it affordable, God forbid you can't afford health care premiums and the payment on that $40k chevy suv. can't put food on their tables? we have an obesity epidemic in this country, we're eating ok.

your forbes post is from over 4 years ago, and it's bunk. not even worth addressing here

45 million Americans are uninsured.

45 million uninsured Americans is more than...

• All Americans age 65 and older (35.9 million)2

• All African Americans (37.1 million)3

• All Hispanic or Latino Americans (39.9 million)4

45 million uninsured Americans is...

• 4 million more than the number of small business employees (41.0 million in 2001)5

• 20 million more than the number of military veterans (25 million)6

• Nearly 12 times more than the number of millionaires (3.8 million) -- although the growth in millionaires outstripped that of the uninsured (14 percent versus 3 percent)7

45 million uninsured Americans is...

• More than four times the population of Greece, site of the Summer Olympics (10.6 million)

• 12 million more than the population of Canada (32.2 million)

• Nearly 5 million more than the population of Spain (40.2 million)

• 20 million more than the population of Iraq (24.7 million)

45 million uninsured Americans is...

• Nearly five times more than the number of Americans living with cancer (9.2 million in 2001)9

• 2.5 times higher than the number of Americans with diabetes (18.2 million in 2002)10

• 7 million more people than those living with HIV throughout the world (38 million)11

There are...

• Nearly 150 uninsured Americans for each physician in America 12

• Nearly 7,500 uninsured Americans for each hospital in America13

• Over 84,000 uninsured Americans for each Member of Congress

45 million uninsured Americans is about the same number of Americans living in...

• West coast states (45.2 million in California, Oregon and Washington)

• Middle America (44.7 million in Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee and Wyoming)

• Northeastern states (42.0 million in Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont)

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.as...VF&b=173900

one interesting fact this propaganda leaves out, somewhere between 20-25 million of these uninsured elected to not have it, mostly young workers that instead of paying health care premiums opted to have more disposable income at this point in their life. so that leaves 20-25 million without healthcare that want it, less than 10% of the population. a problem, yes, a crisis, not hardly. and i'd be willing to bet that many of these remaining 20-25 million don't have healthcare because they are too busy trying to keep up with their credit card payments.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

As long as immigrants with little English and even less money can come to this country and have a house and car and job within a decade of arriving here (I know at least 30 people personally who fit the bill, many more are out there), the native born who actually speak English and actually know the culture.... have no excuse. None.

[GaryC 7]

It's a complex problem, Gary. You just need to look at Luzy's country and her own family as an example that it isn't entirely about one's personal responsability. I'm all for the American Dream and making people responsible for themselves, but when you're dishing out the responsability, you can't ignore the other players - government and corporations. I just don't think it's productive to simply blame the poor for being poor - they don't need a hand out or blame - they need real solutions. For one, the ones effected by poverty the most are young children. Blame won't put food in their bellies or help them to break out of poverty.

Luz's country is the Philippines and not America. Totaly different. In America you get out what you put in. That is what makes us great. You are blaming government and corporations for the poor. That is not where the blame or the solution lies. The solution lies with the people themselves. In 1980 when I got out of the Navy I was unemployed and homeless. I was living in a broken down car. It wasn't the fault of anyone but myself. I realized that if I wanted more out of life I had to put more into it. No one helped me. I got down to it and did it myself. If I could do it anyone can do it. It all comes down to what you want out of life. I will say it again. If you are poor it's because you choose to be. And it isn't my job to give hand outs to someone that doesn't want to put the effort into life to get what they want.

[mmmbop1976 1]

I know that I harp on about this, but if you think the economy's doing great, come to Maine. Come see all the primary and secondary industry vanishing, come pay the tax burden and justify the cost of housing whilst your salary barely hits a living wage.

from the state of maine department of labor website...July 2006 unemployment rate 4.8%. you see the glass half empty i guess.

http://www.maine.gov/labor/lmis/laus.html