Polish lawmakers move closer to banning abortions altogether, even for women who were raped, are carrying deformed babies or face health risks.

[faust-yusov 103]

did you read that before you hit add reply? if a baby hasn't been conceived, its not a baby. prior to fetilization its two seperate things, sperm and an egg. after conception it is one thing, a human being.

simpson clearly was asking why 'the baby' should be punished for 'the parents' being irresponsible.

using & throwing a used condom in the thrash vs. ripping apart & sucking pieces of a living fetus out of a womb then throwing it in trash....nope not the same thing, not even close.

On the contrary! From the perspective of the "baby", it is precisely the point that they are the same thing.

The "punishment" is nothing more or less than "not existing". To the prospective infant, the point at which it is chosen that they shall not exist makes absolutely no difference.

[SMOKE 1,426]

On the contrary! From the perspective of the "baby", it is precisely the point that they are the same thing.

The "punishment" is nothing more or less than "not existing". To the prospective infant, the point at which it is chosen that they shall not exist makes absolutely no difference.

ok what part of prior to conception its 2 seperate things (sperm inside the male/egg inside the female) that when they come together become 1 living being (a human fetus inside the female) is it you're missing?

prior to conception the human fetus does not exist. you can not 'punish' something that does not exist....which would mean that man & woman that are not a mother & father of a child that was never concieved did act responsibly and used a contraceptive. & we aren't sitting here having this discussion.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well hell, in that case, what would you know?

Ahhh, speculation. We're all doing it!

I don't know, so I am not doing it. That's why the judgement should be suspended when it comes to the decisions of people seeking abortions.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What about Jr? Who speaks for Jr? A woman who chooses to have a abortion clearly doesn't have Jr's best interests in mind.

Noone does. So what?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

ok what part of prior to conception its 2 seperate things (sperm inside the male/egg inside the female) that when they come together become 1 living being (a human fetus inside the female) is it you're missing?

prior to conception the human fetus does not exist. you can not 'punish' something that does not exist....which would mean that man & woman that are not a mother & father of a child that was never concieved did act responsibly and used a contraceptive. & we aren't sitting here having this discussion.

So is abortion more or less responsible than contraception? Its a confused argument that is being put forward. A woman can behave responsibly by using contraception, but if she still gets pregnant then deciding to abort the unwanted pregnancy (which she responsibly took precautions to avoid) becomes irresponsible. That doesn't make a great deal of sense... in fact its whack.

[rika60607 215]

I know many more women who got pregnant while using contraception than people who won in a lottery.

Time for a poll?

[SMOKE 1,426]

I know many more women who got pregnant while using contraception than people who won in a lottery.

Time for a poll?

you know a lot woman that are lying too. make sure you make that an answer in your poll.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

just when i thought i've read the dumbest sh!t you've ever posted..you deliver an even more impressive post. hmm lets see..the abortion happens after the fact...so ding ding we have a winner of the irresponsibility game. no your fantasy scerario does not make a great deal of sense & is whack. things do happen though & maybe that couple should have bought lottery tickets before shagging...coz they've beat the hell outta the odds already.

It's not a fantasy scenario, contraception does fail. This is a fact. For someone in their 50s, you sure seem ignorant of a few things most people learn in their teens.

The question i have is at what point responsible behaviour gives way to irresponsible behaviour? Why is it responsible to use contraception to avoid pregnancy but irresponsible to have an abortion if it fails?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

you know a lot woman that are lying too. make sure you make that an answer in your poll.

Some women are irresponsible when it comes to sex, some are not. So what?

What purpose is served by generalising that women who choose abortions are irresponsible? Seems rather arrogant and judgmental to me.

[faust-yusov 103]

ok what part of prior to conception its 2 seperate things (sperm inside the male/egg inside the female) that when they come together become 1 living being (a human fetus inside the female) is it you're missing?

I was responding to your final sentence, not your first. Whether the potential person is comprised of a sperm and egg separately; of a sperm and egg together post fertilization; or of a sperm and egg together after some degree of gestation is irrelevant.

From the perspective of the prospective human, the distinction is immaterial. Whether they never exist because of a condom or because of an abortion makes not the slightest difference. The "punishment" exacted by either measure is equal.

Edited July 6, 2011 by faust-yusov

[rika60607 215]

I do? That it quite an assumption. I usually do not make friends with liers.

Besides, I can't imagine why they would lie to me (they were friends who chose to keep the babies). I also did not ask for this information, so they just as well could have chosen not to discuss this with me.

As well, you seem to think that abortion is as easy as a trip to a park? Nobody wants to use abortion as contraception method. It is costly, it requires at least a day or two off work, it is emotionally sensitive and although low, there is a risk of complications and further infertility. Abortion is the last method any woman wants to use...

Here is some interesting info for you: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904509.html

you know a lot woman that are lying too. make sure you make that an answer in your poll.

Contraceptive Use

54% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.

8% of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, unmarried, poor, black, Hispanic, or poorly educated.

Nine in ten women at risk of unintended pregnancy are using a contraceptive method.

49% of the 6.3 million pregnancies that occur each year are unplanned.

As much as 43% of the decline in abortion between 1994 and 2000 can be attributed to the use of emergency contraception.

Read more: Abortion in the United States — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904509.html#ixzz1RLAE6zTW

Edited July 6, 2011 by rika60607

[SMOKE 1,426]

It's not a fantasy scenario, contraception does fail. This is a fact. For someone in their 50s, you sure seem ignorant of a few things most people learn in their teens.

i'm 38 dude & well versed in human behavioral patterns. also, you'll need a new dance parter to go around in circles with you. i'm @ work now & besides you've bored me again. have a good day.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i'm 38 dude & well versed in human behavioral patterns. also, you'll need a new dance parter to go around in circles with you. i'm @ work now & besides you've bored me again. have a good day.

Well... obviously you are not well-versed if you are seriously trying to make out that contraceptive failure is analogous to winning the lottery.

But sure... you're 38, not in your 50s. And you're bored (and at work). You can rest easy now knowing that you've set the world to rights and that your online reputation is secure.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Insanity Catholicism

Fixed that for you.

[BSquared 9]

If we're going to talk technicalities,a fetus' heart beats 18 days after conception.

Now tell me how something with a heartbeat cannot be killed.

The disturbing thing is if you view abortion and contraception as being more similar than not.

Sorry, work in a NICU - had to fix this. (Not intending to be a part of the battle.)

Week 5

Baby: Your embryo still hasn't grown much. It's about 0.05 inches long. Heart, brain, spinal cord, muscle and bones are beginning to develop. The placenta, which will nourish your baby, and the amniotic sac, which provides a warm and safe environment where the baby can move easily, are still forming, too.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/your-pregnancy-week-by-week-weeks-5-8

Week 10

Baby: Congratulations! Your baby is now officially called a "fetus." It looks a little like a medium shrimp, measuring 1.25 to 1.68 inches from crown to rump, and weighing a little less than two-tenths of an ounce.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/your-pregnancy-week-by-week-weeks-9-12

Edited July 7, 2011 by BSquared