Polish lawmakers move closer to banning abortions altogether, even for women who were raped, are carrying deformed babies or face health risks.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You're obsessing on quotation marks?

THe use of rape as some reason why abortions need to be available (on a wholesale level) is whats inauthentic, not the fact that rapes do happen and in some few cases a pregnancy do result.

Two posts is 'obsessing', that's just hyperbole.

Rape really happens Danno, don't imply otherwise.

[Danno 1,228]

Two posts is 'obsessing', that's just hyperbole.

Rape really happens Danno, don't imply otherwise.

Trig, feel free to post the quote of me suggesting rape doesn't happen.

Your arguments are so void of any substance..... they are off topic, but I guess this is the forum for that sorta thing.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Trig, feel free to post the quote of me suggesting rape doesn't happen.

Your arguments are so void of any substance..... they are off topic, but I guess this is the forum for that sorta thing.

Putting in quotes suggests it's some sort of myth. Rape is rape. "Rape" suggests irony.

No need to get so angry about it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If backstreet butchers are the real problem wouldnt it make sense to go after them and not the innocent unborn child? Its a weak argument I suggest going back to the "woman's rights trump a unborn baby's right to live" argument.

Only to you. But you're not the one who has to go through with a pregnancy you don't want and pay for the child to the age of 18.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Only to you. But you're not the one who has to go through with a pregnancy you don't want and pay for the child to the age of 18.

And your not the one that has to die because your mom cant keep her legs closed.

As far as rape goes I believe that the woman should have a choice as long as it is not towards the end of the pregnancy.

Edited July 4, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And your not the one that has to die because your mom cant keep her legs closed.

As far as rape goes I believe that the woman should have a choice as long as it is not towards the end of the pregnancy.

That's not equivalent, Simpson. The opinion you keep putting forward about "keeping her legs closed" is both puritanical and highly sexist. I'm talking about giving a choice to individuals to manage their lives with as much information and support as is needed to make a reasoned decision. You want to punish women for having sex.

[Fandango 1,440]

Only to you. But you're not the one who has to go through with a pregnancy you don't want and pay for the child to the age of 18.

I am torn on the abortion issue, but the justification of finances to have an abortion is not a valid one, imo.

One could always give the child up for adoption.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Anita Cocktail

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course its valid. Forcing someone to go through a body changing pregnancy just so they can adopt the baby out? That might be an option for some but i doubt everyone would want to do it. The issue ultimately is one of choice. You can't easily put the rights of a fetus in the womb above those of the individual undergoing the pregnancy, not without subjecting adults to a form of biological slavery.

Edited July 4, 2011 by fishdude

[Fandango 1,440]

Of course its valid. Forcing someone to go through a body changing pregnancy just so they can adopt the baby out? That might be an option for some but i doubt everyone would want to do it. The issue ultimately is one of choice. You can't easily put the rights of a fetus in the womb above those of the individual undergoing the pregnancy, not without subjecting adults to a form of biological slavery.

I said IMO...so no, you are wrong. It is an invalid justification FOR ME.

If someone's lack of responsibility (and let's face it, there's protection/contraception, even the morning after pill) creates a pregnancy, I find it incredibly selfish to kill a fetus simply because one doesn't want the financial responsibility of respecting life enough to think about the child.

I am not saying people should be forced to keep babies they don't want....and this is a very complicated issue. I don't agree with abortion personally, but I don't truly know how I feel about it as a whole for other people...but for THIS particular issue??? I don't feel the lack of responsibility and selfishness justifies killing a child.

Now, you go on for 10 pages telling me how I don't have the right to feel that way, or that I am wrong

[_Simpson_ 250]

That's not equivalent, Simpson. The opinion you keep putting forward about "keeping her legs closed" is both puritanical and highly sexist. I'm talking about giving a choice to individuals to manage their lives with as much information and support as is needed to make a reasoned decision.

Sexist? Please, we have gone around in circles on this issue and you know that I dont give men a get out of jail free card on this issue. The focus here is more on the woman because is the deciding factor on what happens to this unborn baby.

You want to punish women for having sex.

So its ok that the unborn child is punished for woman having sex?

[_Simpson_ 250]

Of course its valid. Forcing someone to go through a body changing pregnancy just so they can adopt the baby out? That might be an option for some but i doubt everyone would want to do it. The issue ultimately is one of choice. You can't easily put the rights of a fetus in the womb above those of the individual undergoing the pregnancy, not without subjecting adults to a form of biological slavery.

Weak. Once again its all about the woman with you. At the end of the day a woman that is torn with making such a decision will feel better knowing that she adopted rather than aborted. Like it or not 9 out of 10 times adoption is the best option and no amount of polished turds is going to change that

Edited July 4, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I said IMO...so no, you are wrong. It is an invalid justification FOR ME.

If someone's lack of responsibility (and let's face it, there's protection/contraception, even the morning after pill) creates a pregnancy, I find it incredibly selfish to kill a fetus simply because one doesn't want the financial responsibility of respecting life enough to think about the child.

I am not saying people should be forced to keep babies they don't want....and this is a very complicated issue. I don't agree with abortion personally, but I don't truly know how I feel about it as a whole for other people...but for THIS particular issue??? I don't feel the lack of responsibility and selfishness justifies killing a child.

Now, you go on for 10 pages telling me how I don't have the right to feel that way, or that I am wrong

Needless to say I think YOU are wrong.

The attention seeking self righteous indignation you can keep.

Let's have a few sarky replies to satisfy your ego. Or not, let's assume it as given.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Weak. Once again its all about the woman with you. At the end of the day a woman that is torn with making such a decision will feel better knowing that she adopted rather than aborted. Like or not 9 out of 10 times adoption is the best option and no amount of polished turds is going to change that

You can't make that assumption and assume that all women will or should feel the same way about abortion and adoption, it simply isnt the case.

Nor can you know that adoption is the better option 9 times out of 10. That is simply your opinion and ultimately unverifiable.

[_Simpson_ 250]

You can't make that assumption and assume that all women will or should feel the same way about abortion and adoption, it simply isnt the case.

Nor can you know that adoption is the better option 9 times out of 10. That is simply your opinion and ultimately unverifiable.

Well sure I can, I just did!!! Kill or let live...hmmm. Sometimes I think you argue just to argue. So why is it all about the woman with you, do you not give the unborn baby any moral value?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sexist? Please, we have gone around in circles on this issue and you know that I dont give men a get out of jail free card on this issue. The focus here is more on the woman because is the deciding factor on what happens to this unborn baby.

So its ok that the unborn child is punished for woman having sex?

You made the legs closed comment, not me. It's sexist, i don't expect you to recognise that. You want women to be forced by law to submit to life changing biological and psychological changes against their will. Again, sexist.