REF from USCIS

[dinhdung 0]

Ok, so you failed the K1 interview and now are pursuing a spouse visa. Have you dealt with the returned K1 petition yet? Do a lot of reading in the Vietnam regional forum to have a better understanding of how things go at HCMC.

From what you've told us you haven't even given the CSC enough to believe that you are married. That's not a good start.

My K1 petition returned to local USCIS for review. I got the notice from USCIS at Laguna on March 15th 2011 stated that my I-129F was expired by the time they review and suggested me to file another one as my cost.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Can you please post a copy of the notice you received from USCIS regarding your I-130 petition? I suspect it's not an RFE but rather a NOID based on information from the returned K1 petition. If that's the case, and if you don't respond to it correctly, then your wife might never get a visa.

[dinhdung 0]

Can you please post a copy of the notice you received from USCIS regarding your I-130 petition? I suspect it's not an RFE but rather a NOID based on information from the returned K1 petition. If that's the case, and if you don't respond to it correctly, then your wife might never get a visa.

Thank you for your respond. I reviewed very carefully. It is a REF not a NOID.

[Anh map 2,098]

They want to see:

1 - Proof of your divorce and where your ex has lived/is living since that divorce.

2- A complete history of your relationship with your current wife (from first meeting to now) along with as much proof as you can gather that your relationship is genuine. Correspondence, photos, proof of time spent together, etc.

You already have a file at HCMC that is seen as insufficient to prove a genuine relationship. Simply getting married is not enough to obtain a visa. You need to do a lot of work and supply the detailed info they are expecting.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Thank you for your respond. I reviewed very carefully. It is a REF not a NOID.

Ok, they cited your previous I-129F and the fact that the consulate in HCMC denied the visa. You're right, it's not a NOID, but they are apparently already very suspicious of your relationship. The I-130 should have included evidence of your marital relationship. You mentioned that you included a couple of affidavits, one from your friend and one from your mom, but these weren't mentioned on the RFE so I'm presuming they (rightfully) chose to ignore them. Affidavits from friends and family are, by far, the least reliable form of evidence you can submit. These people have a motive to lie on your behalf. This sort of evidence is only good as icing on the cake when you've already got a sufficient amount of credible evidence from unbiased sources.

You need a pile of evidence. You need to overcome not only the fact that you didn't submit enough evidence with the I-130 petition, but also the fact that the consulate in HCMC has already turned you down once for not establishing the bona fides of your relationship. Read the RFE carefully. They give numerous examples of the sort of evidence they prefer. As the RFE indicates, the evidence should span the entire length of your relationship. Do you have any of the evidence they ask for?

When your wife (fiancee) went to the K1 interview did the consular officer ask her to get proof of where your ex-wife was living? Apparently, from the additional evidence they requested, they suspect your divorce was a matter of convenience so that you would be eligible to submit a petition for your fiancee in Vietnam. In other words, they think the relationship is a set-up to help someone immigrate to the US, and that your divorce is only temporary. If you aren't currently employed, or if your income is low, then the bar of suspicion goes up even higher - they'll suspect you're being paid to do this.

Did you and your wife (fiancee at the time) have a traditional Dam Hoi in Vietnam? Did you have a traditional wedding? I presume you're Viet Kieu. Did any of your family attend either the Dam Hoi or wedding? How many people went to your party? Do you have photos, receipts from the restaurant, printed invitations, etc?

[dinhdung 0]

They want to see:

1 - Proof of your divorce and where your ex has lived/is living since that divorce.

2- A complete history of your relationship with your current wife (from first meeting to now) along with as much proof as you can gather that your relationship is genuine. Correspondence, photos, proof of time spent together, etc.

You already have a file at HCMC that is seen as insufficient to prove a genuine relationship. Simply getting married is not enough to obtain a visa. You need to do a lot of work and supply the detailed info they are expecting.

Thank you for your respond. I see your point. So I just prepare well for my timeline. I have kept all the conversation record such as chat, Yahoo messenger, pictures before and after engagement ceremony. Money transfer receipts to her name but not the joint account in any method. About my ex-wife information, all I know is her last address, and I lost contact with her for years.

[dinhdung 0]

Ok, they cited your previous I-129F and the fact that the consulate in HCMC denied the visa. You're right, it's not a NOID, but they are apparently already very suspicious of your relationship. The I-130 should have included evidence of your marital relationship. You mentioned that you included a couple of affidavits, one from your friend and one from your mom, but these weren't mentioned on the RFE so I'm presuming they (rightfully) chose to ignore them. Affidavits from friends and family are, by far, the least reliable form of evidence you can submit. These people have a motive to lie on your behalf. This sort of evidence is only good as icing on the cake when you've already got a sufficient amount of credible evidence from unbiased sources.

You need a pile of evidence. You need to overcome not only the fact that you didn't submit enough evidence with the I-130 petition, but also the fact that the consulate in HCMC has already turned you down once for not establishing the bona fides of your relationship. Read the RFE carefully. They give numerous examples of the sort of evidence they prefer. As the RFE indicates, the evidence should span the entire length of your relationship. Do you have any of the evidence they ask for?

When your wife (fiancee) went to the K1 interview did the consular officer ask her to get proof of where your ex-wife was living? Apparently, from the additional evidence they requested, they suspect your divorce was a matter of convenience so that you would be eligible to submit a petition for your fiancee in Vietnam. In other words, they think the relationship is a set-up to help someone immigrate to the US, and that your divorce is only temporary. If you aren't currently employed, or if your income is low, then the bar of suspicion goes up even higher - they'll suspect you're being paid to do this.

Did you and your wife (fiancee at the time) have a traditional Dam Hoi in Vietnam? Did you have a traditional wedding? I presume you're Viet Kieu. Did any of your family attend either the Dam Hoi or wedding? How many people went to your party? Do you have photos, receipts from the restaurant, printed invitations, etc?

Thank you for your detail question? When I filed for I-130 form, besides the marry certificate, they required either joint account, or the affidavit letters support from the close friend or relative who knew me well. That why I asked my closest friend and my mother. About my income, I am not worried about that. I had DAM HOI last December 2010 before I received the response from USCIS about my I-129F was expired. The engagement ceremony with around 50 people attended mostly her family side. My family member didn't join with me because December is the busy time for family reunion and the ticket to VN is expensive on the holiday. Up to now, I have made 4 trip to visit her but each trip last only 1 week because I can leave my post at my work longer than 1 week. My divorce is 2 years ago, so I don't know why it still show a red flag for INS.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Thank you for your detail question? When I filed for I-130 form, besides the marry certificate, they required either joint account, or the affidavit letters support from the close friend or relative who knew me well. That why I asked my closest friend and my mother. About my income, I am not worried about that. I had DAM HOI last December 2010 before I received the response from USCIS about my I-129F was expired. The engagement ceremony with around 50 people attended mostly her family side. My family member didn't join with me because December is the busy time for family reunion and the ticket to VN is expensive on the holiday. Up to now, I have made 4 trip to visit her but each trip last only 1 week because I can leave my post at my work longer than 1 week. My divorce is 2 years ago, so I don't know why it still show a red flag for INS.

Ok, let's look objectively at the red flags you've got.

Your divorce was final in October, 2009. In March of 2010 you submitted an I-129F petition for your new fiancee. At this point you hadn't had a Dam Hoi yet, and I'm guessing this was probably after your first trip to meet your fiancee in person. If so, then there are three potential red flags here:

1. You filed a fiancee visa petition within months of getting divorced.

2. You filed the petition before you were formally engaged to your fiancee according to Vietnamese customs.

3. You filed the petition after your first meeting, which was apparently only one week.

Your fiancee had an interview at the consulate in October, 2010. Since your Dam Hoi was in December of 2010, and you got married in March of 2011, I'm going to presume you made one more trip to Vietnam either before or at the same time as the interview. Here are some additional red flags at the time of the interview:

4. You made only two trips to visit your fiancee, for a total of two weeks.

5. At the time of the interview you and your fiancee had not had a formal engagement ceremony.

So, you made one more trip for the engagement ceremony in December, and then another trip to get married in March. If each trip was one week then you've spent a sum total of four weeks with your wife over the course of a year. Now you've submitted an I-130 petition for your new wife, including the bare minimum of evidence of a marital relationship, and it appears to USCIS to confirm what the consular officer found during the interview - there's little evidence of a real relationship here.

The Dam Hoi is a big deal for the consulate in HCMC because they know that someone engaged in visa fraud would just as soon skip the Dam Hoi, or maybe have a small insignificant Dam Hoi just to satisfy what they perceive as a requirement of the consulate. Someone who is involved in a serious relationship, on the other hand, would take their time and carefully plan their engagement. They would also want to involve as many family members and friends as possible, especially if the petitioner is Viet Kieu. They want to see time, effort, and money. It looks bad to them if it appears you rushed into things, did the minimum needed to qualify, or skimped on the expenses.

Ok, realistically, a lot of VN couples don't have a Dam Hoi anymore, especially in big cities. Western style engagements are becoming a lot more common. You could still have a western style engagement and get a fiancee visa in HCMC, but you'd need to show a serious amount of time went into developing the relationship. Anything that remotely resembles a traditional arranged marriage had better have all of the trappings of a traditional arranged marriage, including a big Dam Hoi party involving members of both families.

Your divorce is a big deal because of when it was final compared to when you filed the K1 petition. In the course of five months you got over your divorce, found a girl in Vietnam, fell in love, got engaged (though not formally), and filed a petition for her. The timing of this probably seemed abnormal to the consular officer, and they probably wrote their suspicions in their decision. USCIS saw this and now wants to know where your ex-wife is. As I said before, they suspect you got divorced only so you cold help this girl immigrate from Vietnam, and that you'll cut the strings with this girl once she gets her green card and you'll remarry your original wife. They're looking for evidence that you're either still living with your ex-wife, or that you've maintained a close relationship with her.

Vietnam has one of the highest rates of visa fraud of any country in the world. It's unfortunate you weren't prepared for this before you filed the first petition.

[Anh map 2,098]

Thank you for your respond. I see your point. So I just prepare well for my timeline. I have kept all the conversation record such as chat, Yahoo messenger, pictures before and after engagement ceremony. Money transfer receipts to her name but not the joint account in any method. About my ex-wife information, all I know is her last address, and I lost contact with her for years.

It's been less than 2 years since your divorce. So you haven't lost contact for "years." Don't look for easy excuses, because HCMC won't buy them and you won't get the visa.

Try to make contact with your ex. If she is willing to cooperate it is easier. Get your divorce attorney to help. Get an affidavit from her. Send her a certified letter so you have a receipt that shows her current address. Ask her family and friends for help. Perhaps an affidavit from one of them. Does she own a home? If so, you can get property tax records showing where she lives.

If your ex will not cooperate, and you can't get any info on where she is then the best you can do is prepare an affidavit from you stating that to the best of your knowledge your ex lives at (xx her street, her town) since xx/xx/xxxx. That is what I had to do.

You really need to step up your effort level if you want success. From what you've told us here there wasn't a lot of work done on the fiancee petition.

Call me a @#$^@ if you want. Just trying to convey the message that a much better effort is needed.

[EAbbas 213]

It's been less than 2 years since your divorce. So you haven't lost contact for "years." Don't look for easy excuses, because HCMC won't buy them and you won't get the visa.

Try to make contact with your ex. If she is willing to cooperate it is easier. Get your divorce attorney to help. Get an affidavit from her. Send her a certified letter so you have a receipt that shows her current address. Ask her family and friends for help. Perhaps an affidavit from one of them. Does she own a home? If so, you can get property tax records showing where she lives.

If your ex will not cooperate, and you can't get any info on where she is then the best you can do is prepare an affidavit from you stating that to the best of your knowledge your ex lives at (xx her street, her town) since xx/xx/xxxx. That is what I had to do.

You really need to step up your effort level if you want success. From what you've told us here there wasn't a lot of work done on the fiancee petition.

Call me a @#$^@ if you want. Just trying to convey the message that a much better effort is needed.

IDK if they can search public tax records but here in NC I was able to search our public tax record database to be sure my ex husband refiananced the house under his own name after i signed a quit claim deed. It wasn't difficult to do. It gave all the info needed to locate the record and property address and plat number of the area the house is located and it said whose name is on the house.

Maybe it could be just as easy to track down the ex and the address of cos that's IF they own/financed their home...

Edited July 3, 2011 by EAbbas

[dinhdung 0]

It's been less than 2 years since your divorce. So you haven't lost contact for "years." Don't look for easy excuses, because HCMC won't buy them and you won't get the visa.

Try to make contact with your ex. If she is willing to cooperate it is easier. Get your divorce attorney to help. Get an affidavit from her. Send her a certified letter so you have a receipt that shows her current address. Ask her family and friends for help. Perhaps an affidavit from one of them. Does she own a home? If so, you can get property tax records showing where she lives.

If your ex will not cooperate, and you can't get any info on where she is then the best you can do is prepare an affidavit from you stating that to the best of your knowledge your ex lives at (xx her street, her town) since xx/xx/xxxx. That is what I had to do.

You really need to step up your effort level if you want success. From what you've told us here there wasn't a lot of work done on the fiancee petition.

Call me a @#$^@ if you want. Just trying to convey the message that a much better effort is needed.

Thank you for your response. If I provide any bill or letter from my ex-wife with the different address of mine will it prove that we are not living as the same roof.

[Anh map 2,098]

Thank you for your response. If I provide any bill or letter from my ex-wife with the different address of mine will it prove that we are not living as the same roof.

If you received recent mail from your ex showing her return address that will establish where she lives now. But the RFE specifically wants you prove that you an your ex have not lived together since Oct. 20, 2009.

Again, trying to do this the easy way isn't going to be enough. Lazy = no visa.