The wife wants to return to Russia

[payxibka 10,045]

I lived in Ykraine and it was a great adventure. Of course I was single and had a US level salary and a fully paid apartment. There is always teaching jobs avaialble for any native english speaker and the private schools pay pretty well (by RUB standards) Other work can be very hard to find if you do not speak Russian

We kept or flat there and intend to live at least part time there after I retire, though Alla seems to be getting more away from that (believe it or not, Ukraine is losing its "luster" the longer she stays here) We are very interested in the boys having dual citizenship and being able to live in either country. Sergey has a fairly serious girlfriend who talks openly about "living in America" But we just ike them to have options. More options is better.

Personally I would have no problem living there again, especially with an American retirement income, however as Alla points out, I am now in a position to need regular medical care and the medical care in Ukraine basically stinks. So that is also a consideration.

I would not want to live there earning the type of money the local people usually earn and try to raise a family there. Alla does not even question the opportunities and activities for the boys being better here. And, at least in Donetsk, the influence of drugs and, especially, alcohol are very strong on young men. We do not see that here (maybe worse in some places)

So far, both boys want to live in America but have RUB wives.

I'd like to know how you expect the boys to have dual nationality since it is theoretically not possible

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'd like to know how you expect the boys to have dual nationality since it is theoretically not possible

Theoretically. The boys and Alla. Don't ask, don't tell. We also have the option of Alla and the boys claiming Russian citizenship and Russia does allow dual citizenship.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Theoretically. The boys and Alla. Don't ask, don't tell. We also have the option of Alla and the boys claiming Russian citizenship and Russia does allow dual citizenship.

Make sure they don't forget their 2 years of obligatory service in the Russian military. I'd hate to think they were draft dodgers.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You'd be surprised at how many people in cities with large expat communities, Moscow especially, don't speak Russian. It's quite hard, I think, especially if you're older, to get integrated into Russian social groups. It worked out for me because I'm still quite young, but I've never seen an older-ish man kicking it with his Russian buddies, unless they're the type who just really love hanging out with foreigners. If you go to St. Petersburg, Moscow, etc. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem integrating yourself into the expat communities there, which are sizeable. If you go to your wife's hometown, you may get to know the people who she went to school with and so on, but you may be happier with other expats. (I find most of them tiresome myself, but to each their own.)

If you want to learn Russian a) well and b) fast before you go, you may want to consider doing a summer at Middlebury College. They run what is basically a Russian boot camp. It's never appealed to me (don't want to spend the summer in Vermont--sorry, Gary ), but it's very intensive and effective and everyone I know who has gone has come out with excellent Russian. You can always tell someone who went to Middlebury by their lack of gramma mistakes and proper constructions.

Middlebury has an excellent program, it used to be heavily used by the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Maybe still is Also, you are missing out, the Middlebury area is absolutely to die for in the summer. It is my favorite area to go trout fishing. I just take a drive up route 125 and stop nearly anywhere and start wading into the brooks and streams coming down out of the mountians. The campus where they teach Russian is right along route 125, outside of town. It is like an extension campus. Alla would SO love to teach Russian there but they do not have a lot of turnover.

Eekee, Vermont in the summer is the happiest place on earth.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Make sure they don't forget their 2 years of obligatory service in the Russian military. I'd hate to think they were draft dodgers.

Not true. First, they are Ukrainians right now (they could be Russian but that is another story) and Ukraine has granted Sergey an indefinite deferrment because he is registered for the draft here. If one is a permanent resident of the USA and registers for the draft, thereby meeting the military requirement of the USA, they can be excused from Ukrainian service. I do not know if Russia allows this as it has not been an issue yet and I doubt it will be. "Don't ask Don't tell" works well and the current government in Ukraine is not interested in enforcing the "ban" on dual citizenship at any rate and the implimentation of such must be declared by the President.

[ONA 133]

Make sure they don't forget their 2 years of obligatory service in the Russian military. I'd hate to think they were draft dodgers.

1 year.

[eekee 182]

Gary--I don't like nature very much. I like shopping, museums, clubs, etc., not trout-fishing. More fish for you!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary--I don't like nature very much. I like shopping, museums, clubs, etc., not trout-fishing. More fish for you!

I hate fish! I love fishing.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

You need to get Brad or Charles make you an organizer. Then you can edit your posts whenever you want. No timeout.

charles or brad (or any other mod for that matter) doesn't "make" anyone an organizer.

[Brad and Vika 129]

We kept or flat there and intend to live at least part time there after I retire, though Alla seems to be getting more away from that (believe it or not, Ukraine is losing its "luster" the longer she stays here)

I have the same experience. Vika has a grand time in Ukraine but doesn't seem to want to live there any more.

You'd be surprised at how many people in cities with large expat communities, Moscow especially, don't speak Russian. It's quite hard, I think, especially if you're older, to get integrated into Russian social groups. It worked out for me because I'm still quite young, but I've never seen an older-ish man kicking it with his Russian buddies, unless they're the type who just really love hanging out with foreigners. If you go to St. Petersburg, Moscow, etc. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem integrating yourself into the expat communities there, which are sizeable. If you go to your wife's hometown, you may get to know the people who she went to school with and so on, but you may be happier with other expats. (I find most of them tiresome myself, but to each their own.)

If you want to learn Russian a) well and b) fast before you go, you may want to consider doing a summer at Middlebury College. They run what is basically a Russian boot camp. It's never appealed to me (don't want to spend the summer in Vermont--sorry, Gary ), but it's very intensive and effective and everyone I know who has gone has come out with excellent Russian. You can always tell someone who went to Middlebury by their lack of gramma mistakes and proper constructions.

That is interesting. Thanks for posting it eekee.

You need to get Brad or Charles make you an organizer. Then you can edit your posts whenever you want. No timeout.

charles or brad (or any other mod for that matter) doesn't "make" anyone an organizer.

Yes, we truly have no power **sigh**

Edited much later to say no power with regard to creating organizers

Edited July 4, 2011 by Brad and Vika

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have the same experience. Vika has a grand time in Ukraine but doesn't seem to want to live there any more.

That is interesting. Thanks for posting it eekee.

Yes, we truly have no power **sigh**

Edited much later to say no power with regard to creating organizers

Alla has been dying to spend time in New York City, which so far was limited to driving through on the way to the airport. So this weekend when Sergey came back, we went two days early and stayed a day after he arrived. She used to say she wanted to live in New York City but now says it is "too dirty". I reckon it is about 8 clicks cleaner than Odessa and a full 10 clicks cleaner than Donetsk, which I pointed out to her and I also mentioned we had not seen even ONE roving pack of feral dogs snarling at us from the bushes in Central Park! (####### they gotta do something about the effin' dogs!) She says .."And what? I do not want to live in Ukraine anyway!"

She liked Times Square and eating at outdoor cafes though. We had a good time.

[baron555 934]

Alla has been dying to spend time in New York City, which so far was limited to driving through on the way to the airport. So this weekend when Sergey came back, we went two days early and stayed a day after he arrived. She used to say she wanted to live in New York City but now says it is "too dirty". I reckon it is about 8 clicks cleaner than Odessa and a full 10 clicks cleaner than Donetsk, which I pointed out to her and I also mentioned we had not seen even ONE roving pack of feral dogs snarling at us from the bushes in Central Park! (####### they gotta do something about the effin' dogs!) She says .."And what? I do not want to live in Ukraine anyway!"

She liked Times Square and eating at outdoor cafes though. We had a good time.

There are no alleys on the island....therefore all the garbage cans must be out on the street....abeit they do all that at night, but still.

Chicago still has many large cities beat in that regard.

Lots of walking, subways are good, traffic lights are timed so at night you can fly from on end to the other for a reasonable sum by taxi.

Did you do any of the artist shops down in the Village?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There are no alleys on the island....therefore all the garbage cans must be out on the street....abeit they do all that at night, but still.

Chicago still has many large cities beat in that regard.

Lots of walking, subways are good, traffic lights are timed so at night you can fly from on end to the other for a reasonable sum by taxi.

Did you do any of the artist shops down in the Village?

I had not been in NY since the 80s, except for going to JFK. We did not go to the Village. And we did not drive downtown, we stayed outside the city and took the subway in, which is not so cheap, though less than parking I suppose. $2.25 per person per ride. Sure, if you live there and have a $125 per month unlimited pass instead of a car...that's a deal! You get 4 people just cruising around and it can get pricey for a day of sightseeing

I am much more comfortable in Chicago and it is cleaner than NYC. NY has a lot of great things and the food was outstanding (though Chicago is no slouch in that area)Times Square is pretty incredible in it's excess, especially at night! We ate at Greek, Italian, Mexican (not Tex-Mex) places and it was outstanding. Plus I hit a lot of the street vendors. Alla won't touch that stuff I love it! They make a Gyros a lot better in Chicago though. I got one from a street vendor there and after they slice the meat he starts chopping it all into little pieces!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!! Damn stuff was jumping out of the pita bread! It is supposed to be long strips so it satys in there where it belongs. What is wrong with people???? We hit a lot of the shops in the Seaport area, Pier 17 and then on up to Times Square, Central Park and Broadway. I thought for sure Alla would want a Broadway play but she passed and we watched Shakespear in the Park, which is really great and FREE (not much is free in NYC) And we bought lawn tickets to a NYSO performance.

Alla has been to Chicago twice since being here and says it is cleaner and "nicer" than NYC.

The subways in NYC are filthy dirty and except for the newer cars. I also could not believe the complete lack of escalators in the subways. Some stations have them but most do not. The ones that do were broken! Kiev and Moscow and Prague all have high speed (I mean scary-to-get-on-to fast) escalators. However, they have a much more extensive system than Chicago

Sergey brought me one of those "Woman Driver" signs from Russia, the ones with the high heel shoe, except his girlfriend convinced him to buy the one that looks like a "Yield" sign instead of the yellow diamond "Warning" sign and it says in Russian "Respect Me" on it Phhhhhhhht. Sergey and I have to have a little chat about this.

[TBoneTX 45,309]

I hit a lot of the street vendors.

Did they hit back, huh man? Speaking of street vendors:

Two foreign immigrants have just arrived in the United States by boat. As they discuss their expectations of American culture, one says to the other, "I hear that the people of this country actually eat dogs." "Odd," his companion replies, "but if we shall live in America, we should do as the Americans do."

Nodding emphatically, the first immigrant points to a hot-dog vendor, and they both walk toward the cart. "Two dogs, please," he says. The vendor, only too pleased to oblige, wraps both hot dogs in foil and hands them over the counter. Excited, the companions hurry to a bench and begin to unwrap their "dogs."

One of them opens the foil and begins to blush. Staring at it for a moment, he turns to his friend and whispers cautiously, "What part did you get?"

[Captain Hammer 113]

Did they hit back, huh man? Speaking of street vendors:

Two foreign immigrants have just arrived in the United States by boat. As they discuss their expectations of American culture, one says to the other, "I hear that the people of this country actually eat dogs." "Odd," his companion replies, "but if we shall live in America, we should do as the Americans do."

Nodding emphatically, the first immigrant points to a hot-dog vendor, and they both walk toward the cart. "Two dogs, please," he says. The vendor, only too pleased to oblige, wraps both hot dogs in foil and hands them over the counter. Excited, the companions hurry to a bench and begin to unwrap their "dogs."

One of them opens the foil and begins to blush. Staring at it for a moment, he turns to his friend and whispers cautiously, "What part did you get?"