Combating the "yo mama don't live here" issue

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

My ex isn't from MENA, but we had a similar issue because his mom and a maid did everything (we divorced for unrelated issues). So my first question would be, does he actually know what needs doing and how to do it? He may just not realise what your cleanliness standards or priorities are, and/ or time gets away from him (so easy when sitting at the computer!). Could you make a list? Ie Monday: sweep and vacuum. Tuesday: Bathroom. etc... you can add some stuff you do together or you do too, so it doesn't look like a "you MUST do" list.

[Mithra 1,185]

My husband works so that part isn't an issue but I can relate to the lazy regarding housework. When he first came to the US he couldn't work and I had to do everything (including cooking and cleaning) and things were rough. Like me constantly nit picking and getting pissed because he did nothing. He didn't even have a baby to care for so he really did nothing. Now that he's working and out of the house and therefore, not making messes his laziness isn't really an issue anymore. He will help though if I ask but I do have to ask repeatedly. I'm sorry I can't be much help but I do understand for the most part. I am doubtful that anyone will come up with a permanent solution that doesn't involve punishment. Punishment and threats only help short term. If someone does have a real, permanent solution I would love to hear it.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Mithra

[BSquared 9]

I have done that. The results last a day or two at best. I've also threatened turning off the satellite and internet and hiring a maid, but damn.. I use those things too, you know? I've been letting the frustration build up until I EXPLODE, and then it gets really ugly and nothing gets accomplished.

Hmmm... I don't recommend actually disconnecting the satellite because as someone else said, he'll feel punished. (Also because you enjoy it.) But I would definitely find a way to let him know you're serious about his needing to help. When we (have 4 sisters) were little - mom and dad wouldn't 'disconnect' it - but rather stole the cable cord. Does he cook dinner & have it ready when you get home... or is that another thing you do as well? If it's you - use it simply to make a point... 'we're in this together - you're supposed to do a little for everyone... not just for yourself (you could be cooking for 1 or 2). Computer/TV is self time. I cook for 3 because you are now a part of me and my life. I do it for us - not me. I'm assuming you would do the same for me (cook for 3). I don't want to be constantly frustrated over toys in the tub after a bath, or stepping on a remote. If you don't want to help with cleaning, the least you could do is clean up after yourself or things you've done...' example, you cook eggs, clean the single pan/plate. Put your clothing in the hamper if you don't want to wash. After a bath, make sure the toys are out of the tub.

And if worst comes to worst... use sex. No no, don't deprive him. Rather, make cleaning sexy. Lol. (Yeah, I know - sounds stupid.) Try the 'clean together' thing... and have him scrub a window or vacuum - and kiss him while he does it... show him how appreciative you are. Maybe next time he does it... he'll think of you kissing the back of his neck - or imagine what you might do next time he cleans. (I don't have to ask Ben to clean, he's a neat guy, but I know kissing him while he cooks works - so maybe it'd work for you for cleaning.)

Lol... think I'm out of ideas. I need to get married and have experience before I think of anything else. Haha.

[LaL 418]

I kinda don't understand the "don't make him feel punished" term. It's not like this guy is a child! We all make sacrifices for our families. He does need to be considerate though, and it will take some time for him to get used to doing things he wasn't normally doing in Morocco.

[New Beginnings 32]

I don't buy that whole "he's from a country where women do the housework" stuff, he's an adult and he has responsibilities. I would sit down and have a calm, frank, discussion with him. I would lay out all the chores that need to be done around the house and split them up. He can't be expected to be home, take care of the child, and do all of the housework. And you can't be expected to work 2 jobs and do all of the housework.

When my husband came here he was used to working 70+ hour weeks and had a mother and sister who stayed home. Obviously they did the cooking and cleaning. For the 2 months that he was unable to work I would get frustrated when the dishes weren't done and all he had been doing for the day was watching tv. We sat down, I listed out everything that needs to be done around the house, the frequency it should be happening and we decided who will be responsible for what.

When I'm feeling overwhelmed with work, I'm a tax analyst at a very large company and work 60-80 hour weeks when I'm busy, I let him know. I will come home and immediately say, the dishes need to be done and I really can't handle doing them right now, please help me. I think you also need to start being honest with him about this stuff. No matter where people are from, there are some people who notice and pay attention to housework and there are some who don't. My brother is one who doesn't even notice when the house needs to be picked up and he's American. If you hold these things in until you explode you are at fault too. Be honest about your feelings when you're feeling them, he'll probably respond better if you are calm and not upset when you talk to him.

[Krikit 1,164]

My husband SUX at helping out around the house. I accidentally discovered that shame is his motivator.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I kinda don't understand the "don't make him feel punished" term. It's not like this guy is a child! We all make sacrifices for our families. He does need to be considerate though, and it will take some time for him to get used to doing things he wasn't normally doing in Morocco.

This is exactly what I mean - he's not a child ! So don't present it like Mom punishing a kid for not doing his chores - "Take out the trash sonny boy or you're not getting any Nintendo!" These are two adults here who have to make their decisions together.

The couple has agreed that the wife will work 2 jobs and the husband will stay home and provide the child care. But there seems to be no agreement about who will do the housework - the wife expects the husband to do much more, but the husband is not doing that.

I see these as the only possible choices:

#1. Hubby does the housework

#2. Wife does the housework

#3. Hubby and wife share the housework

#4. Live with messy house

#5. Cut the budget somewhere to allow for a maid - then neither have to do the housework !

It's up to them what they decide to do. I absolutely agree that a man "should" help with the housework, especially if he's home all day (even if caring for a small child.) It may be possible to turn him into Suzy Homemaker or at least finally teach him to pick up his socks every day. However some people are just not very inclined to clean without constant nagging. You can't *make* someone do voluntarily what they're not *willing* to do voluntarily. After a year of stressing about #3, I'd be tired of the argument.

I was not suggesting cutting his internet - of course he needs to talk with his family. This is what I mean - it's not a PUNISHMENT, it's just part of the unpleasant task of allotting limited resources for what needs to get done. I just saw the satellite tv as the most easily jettison-able expense. But of course there are many other ways to cut back.

And who knows - with a frank discussion about "Well honey, what are we going to cut from our monthly budget to bring in a maid a few times a month to help get this house cleaned" - he may see the light.

[Sunny123 44]

I don't buy that whole "he's from a country where women do the housework" stuff, he's an adult and he has responsibilities. I would sit down and have a calm, frank, discussion with him. I would lay out all the chores that need to be done around the house and split them up. He can't be expected to be home, take care of the child, and do all of the housework. And you can't be expected to work 2 jobs and do all of the housework.

When my husband came here he was used to working 70+ hour weeks and had a mother and sister who stayed home. Obviously they did the cooking and cleaning. For the 2 months that he was unable to work I would get frustrated when the dishes weren't done and all he had been doing for the day was watching tv. We sat down, I listed out everything that needs to be done around the house, the frequency it should be happening and we decided who will be responsible for what.

When I'm feeling overwhelmed with work, I'm a tax analyst at a very large company and work 60-80 hour weeks when I'm busy, I let him know. I will come home and immediately say, the dishes need to be done and I really can't handle doing them right now, please help me. I think you also need to start being honest with him about this stuff. No matter where people are from, there are some people who notice and pay attention to housework and there are some who don't. My brother is one who doesn't even notice when the house needs to be picked up and he's American. If you hold these things in until you explode you are at fault too. Be honest about your feelings when you're feeling them, he'll probably respond better if you are calm and not upset when you talk to him.

This is a good idea. Leave him a honey to do list every day of what you want him to do. I am not married yet but I hear the same thing from my married friends where both spouses are working and the only way to get their husbands to help is to leave a list. I hear time and time again they should just know to do this and that and to help out. I've heard the other side like we're not mind readers. (which they aren't ) I don't know if you have tried this or not but just thought I would give my two dirhams.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Sunny123

[Ramialbali 23]

My ex isn't from MENA, but we had a similar issue because his mom and a maid did everything (we divorced for unrelated issues). So my first question would be, does he actually know what needs doing and how to do it? He may just not realise what your cleanliness standards or priorities are, and/ or time gets away from him (so easy when sitting at the computer!). Could you make a list? Ie Monday: sweep and vacuum. Tuesday: Bathroom. etc... you can add some stuff you do together or you do too, so it doesn't look like a "you MUST do" list.

I totally agree with Penguin_ie. My wife has a high standared regarding housework. At the beginning, I used to do nothing or close to her standared, but She taught me what she expect and started doing lists for houswork which makes things easier. After awhile I found myself enjoying cooking but hate cleaning the dishes, so she started listing things that I like and she took over cleaing the dishes even I use every tool in the kitchen to cook . NOw I tried my best to do my chore to avoid being lectured like a teenager . But, She promised to take over some of the things I hate doing them when we go to live in the US. So, I think you should start writing lists and divid the housework over the week even everyday 2 things at the beginning. Start with simple things until he get used to it.

Him getting a job and you have 1 instead of 2 jobs would help the situation.

I am a Palestinian, and our mothers did everything regarding houswork and even forbiden us to do anything. So go for it step by step.

Hope you solve this problem soon.

Best,

[Krikit 1,164]

This is a good idea. Leave him a honey to do list every day of what you want him to do. I am not married yet but I hear the same thing from my married friends where both spouses are working and the only way to get their husbands to help is to leave a list. I hear time and time again they should just know to do this and that and to help out. I've heard the other side like we're not mind readers. (which they aren't ) I don't know if you have tried this or not but just thought I would give my two dirhams.

Kind of like a job description. Squeaky's job is to work two jobs to provide financial stability. Hubby's job is child and home care. Sounds like hubby's not too clear on the duties he is responsible for. I would work on it from that perspective..... as management to subordinate, as it were. You may need to micro-manage until he's up to speed.

[Mithra 1,185]

It should probably be worded as he's from a family where women do all the housework. My brothers are American raised in the US by an American mom and they don't do ####### as far as housework. They never had to as kids so they don't do it now. Male chauvinism is alive and well in the US, too. I was expected to clean my room and help with chores as a kid but my brothers weren't. And yes, if his family taught this lesson to him (that women do all the housework) then it's a little hard for a new immigrant to break out of that mindset. Even if his wife is doing the typical "male" duties, housework may still be "beneath" him ie "woman's work". Or he just doesn't care that the house is messy. I don't know Squeaky's husband personally so I don't know if it's a male/female duty mindset or he just doesn't care about a messy house or maybe both? His culture certainly dictates that the house and children are the woman's job. Maybe taking care of a child all day feels like enough for him. If he does have that mindset taking care of a child all day may be a bit emasculating on its own without adding housework and cooking to the mix. I was a stay at home mom for several years. I loved it but it did get mind numbing at times. I can see how a normally lazy person would feel like he didn't give a ######.

I don't buy that whole "he's from a country where women do the housework" stuff, he's an adult and he has responsibilities. I would sit down and have a calm, frank, discussion with him. I would lay out all the chores that need to be done around the house and split them up. He can't be expected to be home, take care of the child, and do all of the housework. And you can't be expected to work 2 jobs and do all of the housework.

When my husband came here he was used to working 70+ hour weeks and had a mother and sister who stayed home. Obviously they did the cooking and cleaning. For the 2 months that he was unable to work I would get frustrated when the dishes weren't done and all he had been doing for the day was watching tv. We sat down, I listed out everything that needs to be done around the house, the frequency it should be happening and we decided who will be responsible for what.

When I'm feeling overwhelmed with work, I'm a tax analyst at a very large company and work 60-80 hour weeks when I'm busy, I let him know. I will come home and immediately say, the dishes need to be done and I really can't handle doing them right now, please help me. I think you also need to start being honest with him about this stuff. No matter where people are from, there are some people who notice and pay attention to housework and there are some who don't. My brother is one who doesn't even notice when the house needs to be picked up and he's American. If you hold these things in until you explode you are at fault too. Be honest about your feelings when you're feeling them, he'll probably respond better if you are calm and not upset when you talk to him.

[moroccogirlny 100]

Not to be a wise a$$ but how about putting a dead bug by his food. He might clean the kitchen a little more often.

[New Beginnings 32]

My husband never had to do housework because he was out working 70 hour weeks. When he came here and didn't help with the housework right away it wasn't because he believed it was "women's work" it was because he didn't know how to vacuum, dust, clean a bathroom, start a dishwasher, he never owned a washing machine, he never owned an oven. This was all new to him. He didn't know that to keep a clean house you need to do all of the cleaning at least once a week if not more and that we do a big spring cleaning push. He didn't know that we need to change the filters in the furnace/air conditioner or that you should clean the inside of the windows too.

He never had to be aware of something on the floor or mopping or sweeping so why would he magically become aware of these things? It helped when I sat down and explained all that goes into taking care of the house and what we need to do together to make sure it gets done. When he's busy with school and work I pick up his slack now, when I'm busy with school and work he picks up my slack. He needs to understand what you're asking of him. From what I've heard of Squeeky's husband, I don't think it's a "women's work" issue. I think he just doesn't think about it. Be calm, talk to him, understand that it won't just change over night. Like on the movie The Break-Up, why would people *want* to do dishes, yes we want them to want to help out, but the reality is I don't like doing the dishes, why should he want to do them?

You need to approach this situation with the mentality of teamwork and you will see you get more accomplished.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

For us, Adam & I both work. Hes said before that its the womans job to cook and clean and I just tell him then its not my job to work and make any money if I'm going to spend all day cooking and cleaning.

One thing that I know for sure is that he does not want to be told what to do or nagged. Im not his mother. I basically put the pressure on myself by trying to keep a perfect house when he would care less that its perfect or not. He never nags on me as to why anythings not cleaned so I had to stop putting pressure on myself about getting every single thing done right now.

He knows if his dirty clothes isnt in the washing machine then they wont get washed. He's slowly but surely learning to go throw his clothes in the washer if he wants them washed today. And when I do laundry and he didnt put his clothes in there, I just say... hey you know where dirty laundry goes and that I do laundry daily, I didnt see any of your stuff in the wash. Then he knows tomorrow to put his clothes in the wash. If he has stuff in his pockets and I do pick up something, it gets washed. And I tell him if you want your clothes washed take your stuff out your pockets so they dont get washed. So basically I make a habit of what I do and he's learning/learned what he needs to do.

Since he works early mornings I take the trash to the road and since Im at work in the daytime he brings in the trash cans. He washes the dog, I wont. Dishes he never does so I dont hurry to do them anymore. Im not going to stress myself out over every fork or spoon in the sink.

I admit my house is not perfectly clean as I would like on a daily basis but it is good enough. Im not going to yell, scream, beg, nag daily and Im not going to stress myself out over something that I have a lifetime to do. Yes I wish he helped more on his own, but it is what it is.

On a awesome shocking note: When I came home from work on Saturday, he was acting like he was starving and just waiting on me to come home and cook immediately. I was ready to come through the door and say, IM NOT GOING TO COOK TODAY! ... I walked in to a table with a homemade baked whole chicken, egyptian style rice, and some kind of okra that is egyptian style made. I was shocked! ... of course guess who ended up doing all the dishes?... ME... but on Sunday

[KittyPollitt 284]

Wow, seriously thank all of you for some great advice. I had a heart to heart with him before bed last night. Basically consisting of the guilt trip- I do everything in my power to make and keep you happy, and you do as little as possible to keep me from kirking out. How is that fair? And I told him to think about it. When I came home today, the floor has been mopped and lunch is being made. Progress? We shall see. I'm going to take a lot of the advice given here and apply it. I tend to be a very confrontational person, and I'm going to try to tone that down and be patient.

I've been a damn hard worker all my life, and he's worked a total of 9 months in his whole life, so it's difficult for us to relate when it comes to getting up off one's #### and just DOING it. le sigh. I hope it gets better.