Top Republican Tax Writer Chooses A Bigger Deficit Over Tax Increases For The Rich

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well that depends though on whether or not the capital gains tax has an effect on the market.

Let's say that the reason why the stock market started growing again was because of the lowering of the capital gains tax. Then those retirees would be dependent on those who invest more and move their money around.

If we raise the tax and the market were to decline, then in essence, we'd be harming the poor once again.

It's a different discussion. Again, it starts off with your assumption that you previously tried to pass off as fact. And then it diverts from the earlier statement you made which was not in way to be mistaken for any secondary effects on the average retirement savings account. The context in which you made that statement was clearly geared towared the idea that small investors should not be taxed at higher capital gains rates because that would be a hardship on their retirement savings. All I'm saying is that whatever the capital gains tax rates, the drawing down of retirement accounts is taxed at the prevailing income tax rate rather than the capital gains tax rate. That remains valid.

[mawilson 2,133]

Each and every Dane pays at least 45%? Link? Source?

Save for the first $7,600, which makes your effective rate close to 35% if you make $50k.

Link here.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Save for the first $7,600, which makes your effective rate close to 35% if you make $50k.

Link here.

Okay, so it's not 45% as you stated earlier. In fact, from the source you gave, the breakdown suggests that effective rates of 25%-30% are quite feasible in the lower incomes and 30%-35% for median incomes.

Danish tax examples as of 2010:

• If you have what is considered a very low income (DKK 150,000, USD 26,550) you pay approx. DKK 44,500 in income tax (including gross tax), i.e. approx. 29.7% of the full amount.
  
• If you have what is considered a very low income (DKK 150,000, USD 26,550), and you pay DKK 20,000 annually in interest, you pay approx. DKK 38,000 in income tax (including gross tax), i.e. approx. 25.3% of the full amount.
  
• If you have what is considered an average income (DKK 375,000, USD 66,370) you pay approx. DKK 134,800 in income tax, i.e. approx. 35.9% of the full amount.
  
• If you have what is considered an average income (DKK 375,000, USD 66,370), and you pay DKK 30,000 annually in interest, you pay approx. DKK 125,100 in income tax, i.e. approx. 33.04% of the full amount.
  
• If you have what is considered a high income (DKK 780,000, USD 138,050), you pay approx. DKK 351,200 in income tax, i.e. approx. 45.0% of the full amount.
  
• If you have what is considered a high income (DKK 780,000, USD 138,050), and you pay at least DKK 50,000 annually in interest, you pay approx. DKK 334,900 in income tax, i.e. approx. 42.9% of the full amount.
  

Edited June 28, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[mawilson 2,133]

Okay, so it's not 45% as you stated earlier. In fact, from the source you gave, the breakdown suggests that effective rates of 25%-30% are quite feasible in the lower incomes and 30%-35% for median incomes.

It's not a very "progressive" tax system. It goes from 8 percent to 45 percent almost immediately - after the first $7,600.

So whether you make $8,000 or $50,000, you pay 45 percent of excess over $7,600.

Because of this initial exemption, the effective tax rate is closer to 30-35 percent, but even 30 percent is way, way, more than ZERO (7.65% if you count FICA) which is what 150 million Americans pay.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's not a very "progressive" tax system. It goes from 8 percent to 45 percent almost immediately - after the first $7,600.

So whether you make $8,000 or $50,000, you pay 45 percent of excess over $7,600.

Because of this initial exemption, the effective tax rate is closer to 30-35 percent, but even 30 percent is way, way, more than ZERO (7.65% if you count FICA) which is what 150 million Americans pay.

Don't forget the municipal taxes (which are included in the taxes you calculate for Denmark) and don't forget the huge bite that health insurance takes out of those small paychecks. Again, a family policy costs about 15K a year. That alone is almost a third of the median household income. Let's try to get at least close to comparing apples to apples.

[mawilson 2,133]

Don't forget the municipal taxes (which are included in the taxes you calculate for Denmark) and don't forget the huge bite that health insurance takes out of those small paychecks. Again, a family policy costs about 15K a year. That alone is almost a third of the median household income. Let's try to get at least close to comparing apples to apples.

So what you're saying is that the tax rates are comparable?

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't think so. 85 percent of Americans get coverage at work and don't have to pay $15k per year.

I buy my own coverage (now that I'm fully self-employed) and it costs me about $500 per month.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't think so. 85 percent of Americans get coverage at work and don't have to pay $15k per year.

I buy my own coverage (now that I'm fully self-employed) and it costs me about $500 per month.

Single coverage costs you 6K per year. Try family coverage. True, most Americans get coverage at work but when you think about it, the portion that the employer pays simply takes down your gross pay. Do the math: family coverage still costs 15K - typically 1/3 paid by the employee and 2/3 paid by the employer. Now we get the median household income up to 60K. The value of universal, tax paid coverage still remains significant. It would then take 25% rather than 30% or so out of your pay. Equally bad, isn't it?

So what you're saying is that the tax rates are comparable?

The tax rates aren't but when you look at what you pay outside of taxes for the stuff that the higher taxes in Denmark pay for, you are not left with a whole heck of a lot more. Certainly when it comes to the incomes at or below the median.

[웃 910]

We need to get tax rates to 95% for everyone and have government run super markets for free food for all.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We need to get tax rates to 95% for everyone and have government run super markets for free food for all.

That would be a bit extreme, don't you think? Because we could also advocate 5% taxes but then you'd have to build your own damn road to get to work.

[slim 1,530]

If our taxes were only for roads (and other stuff the government is supposed to take care 0f) we could probably get away with 5%. Problem is we keep adding new things to what the government is supposed to do.

[웃 910]

If our taxes were only for roads (and other stuff the government is supposed to take care 0f) we could probably get away with 5%. Problem is we keep adding new things to what the government is supposed to do.

You realize that 45 (million) out of 300 million americans are on food stamps, right? That is 15% or roughly 1 out of every 6.5

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If our taxes were only for roads (and other stuff the government is supposed to take care 0f) we could probably get away with 5%. Problem is we keep adding new things to what the government is supposed to do.

5% would bearely pay for defense.

[mawilson 2,133]

You realize that 45 (million) out of 300 million americans are on food stamps, right? That is 15% or roughly 1 out of every 6.5

That's just not true. They get debit cards, not food stamps.

[웃 910]

That's just not true. They get debit cards, not food stamps.

Ok. 45 million Americans get government pre-paid debit cards for grocery store shopping sprees.