i-864 AOS household income = SSA to minor children

[Jojo92122 1,924]

We all agree it is not my money.

I am trying to make the point that the i-864 process gets an assessment of the HOUSEHOLD. And yes, while there are 5 kids, housing and health insurance are taken care of through SSA; I think that's an important part of the picture. I don't spend very much money from prior savings on myself... with the exception of paying I-130 application fees to get husband here...but that too is for the benefit of the kids...

While having a father figure around may be of benefit to the children. They do not have any legal obligations to their stepfather. You as the spouse and sponsor on the I-864 have a LEGAL obligation to him.

good argument... but then why is "child support" listed on form?

and yes, I do have assets to cover thedifference, so I am not worried about the situation you described.

Generally, child support is made by a non-custodial parent to the custodial parent. The money is paid to the custodial parent. The custodial parent has a personal right to demand payment from the non-custodial parent for support of their children. Under the law, the money belongs to the custodial parent. Children do not sue for child support. Custodial parents sue for child support. See here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_support

SSA benefits is made by the government to the beneficiary. If the beneficiary is a minor or incapable of handing the money, the SSA will accept a responsible adult as a representative payee (which would include a trustee). Here, the right to demand payment belongs to the beneficiary and not the trustee or representative trustee. The trustee can sue for the benefits if SSA does not pay, and does so as the representative of the beneficiary. The trustee does not have a personal right to demand payment.

If you have the assets, then why do you want to use the children's money to fulfill the I-864 obligations?

While having a father figure around may be of benefit to the children. They do not have any legal obligations to their stepfather. You as the spouse and sponsor on the I-864 have a LEGAL obligation.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Jojo92122

[M in CA 9]

I understand what you're saying and agree that you would think they would accept it somehow but...

As Jojo has pointed-out there is another big difference between Child Support & SSA Survivor benefits, that being the Child Support payments are paid to you the parent and it is your money to be used to help support the children whereas you only act as the Trustee of the SSA Payments and are even subject to audit.

If it was me filling out the I-864 and I had sufficient assets to not need to include the SSA payments then that's what I would do as it's less complicated. If you need the SSA then by all means include in on line 23 along with proof of the payment amount and expected duration but have a co-sponsor waiting in the wings just in case.

ASsets: check. Co-sponsor waiting-in-the-wings: check.

In reading up on Child Support (out of curiosity on how the law defines it)... it seems that most states (not California) require CS audit. CS is often paid through an agency that filters out mean-tested program payments before ending up with payee guardian.

Regardless, we are fortuante the Federal Poverty Levels are not based on COLA per-state or even per-county. I imagine California would be much higher than many other states, for example.

[Jojo92122 1,924]

We all agree it is not my money.

I am trying to make the point that the i-864 process gets an assessment of the HOUSEHOLD. And yes, while there are 5 kids, housing and health insurance are taken care of through SSA; I think that's an important part of the picture. I don't spend very much money from prior savings on myself... with the exception of paying I-130 application fees to get husband here...but that too is for the benefit of the kids...

good argument... but then why is "child support" listed on form?

and yes, I do have assets to cover thedifference, so I am not worried about the situation you described.

If it's not your money, then how can you claim it as your income?

There is a reason for line 24, household income. To include a child's income as household income on line 24, the child must be over 18 and submit an I-864a. This is to protect minor children. This was designed to exclude the assets and income of a minor in the household income.

[M in CA 9]

If you have the assets, then why do you want to use the children's money to fulfill the I-864 obligations?

While having a father figure around may be of benefit to the children. They do not have any legal obligations to their stepfather. You as the spouse and sponsor on the I-864 have a LEGAL obligation.

Yes I understand I am the sponsor and the responsible adult.

Why list the household income? Because I don't want them to read the form too quickly and say: 1 mom, 5 kids, no income, no way.

My comment about the benefits of having a father around was meant as a light-hearted compliment to all the dads who adopt children as a result of marrying a widow or even just being "another kind of father" to kids from a previous marriage. American media (TV, movies, commercials, etc) discredit the role of parents, particularly the role of fathers. My kids adore the man they call their "new dad" and cannot wait for him to live with us "forever" (in the words of a very wise 4 year old girl). subject for another forum I guess.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

My comment about the benefits of having a father around was meant as a light-hearted compliment to all the dads who adopt children as a result of marrying a widow or even just being "another kind of father" to kids from a previous marriage. American media (TV, movies, commercials, etc) discredit the role of parents, particularly the role of fathers. My kids adore the man they call their "new dad" and cannot wait for him to live with us "forever" (in the words of a very wise 4 year old girl). subject for another forum I guess.

As a father who retained full custody of his two your daughters in the divorce and now has taken under his wings the 2 young sons of his 2nd wife I just want to say thank you for recognizing that a real Daddy is so much more than a Paycheck .

Edited June 27, 2011 by Bob 4 Anna

[Jojo92122 1,924]

Yes I understand I am the sponsor and the responsible adult.

Why list the household income? Because I don't want them to read the form too quickly and say: 1 mom, 5 kids, no income, no way.

My comment about the benefits of having a father around was meant as a light-hearted compliment to all the dads who adopt children as a result of marrying a widow or even just being "another kind of father" to kids from a previous marriage. American media (TV, movies, commercials, etc) discredit the role of parents, particularly the role of fathers. My kids adore the man they call their "new dad" and cannot wait for him to live with us "forever" (in the words of a very wise 4 year old girl). subject for another forum I guess.

It's great that the kinds adore him. I wish you all the happiness in the world.

Let's look at the problem from a different angle;

1. If an immigrant uses a means tested benefit, the signatories of the I-864s and I-864a obligates to use his or her income and assets to repay the government.

2. You as the petitioner and sponsor can commit your income.

3. Any US adult over 18 can commit his or her income.

4. Minor children cannot sign contracts and therefore cannot sign the I-864 or I-864a to commit their income to repay the government.

5. Therefore, you cannot use the SSA payments on any I-864 because you cannot commit this money to repay the government.

6. Unfortunately, as the legal parent of your five children, you are legally obligated to support your children so they will be counted as your dependents on the I-864, and you cannot commit their SSA payments to repay the government for any means tested benefits he may receive.

[fazmo 24]

What the OP is communicating/asking (I believe) is not whether the money could be used for a financial support guarantee to the intending immigrant. She is merely asking whether to report that income as a household income (or hide it). Personally, I think you should report every income you receive from any resource including SSA just to show how the household - including the kids maintain their lives. But I bet the consular officer would want other resources (assets or other income) outside of the SSA for the kids in order to determine the applicant will not be a public charge also. SSA is a public charge and cannot be used to dispel the possibility to become a public charge.

Report: Yes.

Depend on it for the purpose of AOS: No.

[M in CA 9]

What the OP is communicating/asking (I believe) is not whether the money could be used for a financial support guarantee to the intending immigrant. She is merely asking whether to report that income as a household income (or hide it). Personally, I think you should report every income you receive from any resource including SSA just to show how the household - including the kids maintain their lives. But I bet the consular officer would want other resources (assets or other income) outside of the SSA for the kids in order to determine the applicant will not be a public charge also. SSA is a public charge and cannot be used to dispel the possibility to become a public charge.

Report: Yes.

Depend on it for the purpose of AOS: No.

Right. Exactly.

And it's tricky to find where to disclose it. Cover letter is thorough, but it would be nice to put the "household income" on form somewhere.

NOTE: This particular SSA is not "public charge." Nor is it "means-tested benefit." It is Social Security Survivor Benefits paid to each child because my first husband died. I lost benefits the moment I was re-married. I even lost all rights to DH's retirement SSA $ b/c I marrried before turning 60. If I were to divorce (heaven forbid) then I would get benefits in my name again. But that isn't going to happen.

Our case is heading toward NVC as we speak (NOA2 today), so we will soon see what happens w/re: 864.

[bigdog 376]

Any ideas on how/where to report household income based on minor children SSA recipients?

Otherwise we are without any income for the past 3 years since 1st husband died.

With 5 minor children receiving Social Security Survivor Benefits, our household (and I as the Trustee) meet the 125% poverty guideline for a family of 7. I am filling out the i-864 and have no place to put the SSA income. I cannot use the i-864A forms because the children are all under 18.

Does it make sense to just report it as my "Employment" as Trustee and attach all of the SSA-1099 and benefits letters that verify that I am the Trustee?

I am reporting assets as a backup, but I would like to have them look at SSA income as just say "got it!"

I agree with other response, line 23, it is still income.

[Anh map 2,098]

Here is the part from the Adjudicator's Field Manual (20.5) that makes me wonder if the children's SSA can be used toward satisfying the income requirement:

The sponsor may use the income of any member of his or her own household who is at least 18 years old to help meet the household income requirement.

The child cannot execute the I-864A. Given that the affidavit is about having enough funds to provide that the intending immigrant will not become a public charge I can see where a CO may not include the SSA in the sponsor's income for the purposes of the affidavit of support.

Hopefully a member who has gone through this exact scenario can contribute to give some first hand experience.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

One inappropriate comment removed from the thread along with one post quoting it. If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, then don't disrupt it with baiting or otherwise inappropriate comments.

Post quoting the removed quote is returned to the thread below minus comments addressing the removed post.

The SSA survivor benefits pay for the kids' needs. I am not suggesting that money will be pledged toward the 864. It cannot be. I am trying to disclose how our household budget actually works despite my being unemployed for 3 years.

No- my family won't have anything to do with your SSA$. The 5 kids are citizens, born here to a father who worked really hard, paid his SS and taxes, and even gave blood every 8 weeks. He died at age 42. HIS social security payments and HIS taxes have more than fed the system that says it will sustain the minor children of a SSA/tax-paying citizen who dies.

The only reason I am trying to report this money is because it goes a long way toward explaining how a widow with 5 young children, all under 14, sustains a functioning household, pays for health insurance on her own, and keeps her entire family off means-tested benefits, while still unemployed. Managing the grieving process in a healthy way for 5 children who lost their dad suddenly 3 years ago has been a fulltime job. Based on the kids' academic, social, musical, civic, physical and leadership accomplishments, I would say I have nurtured the children well. Maybe I did a great job because I learned lessons from my mom who was widowed with 3 tiny kids from a drunk driving accident that killed my father at age 28 and left the driver intact. Strong mom. Strong me.

Please err on the side of kindness. This is a stressfull process. I am hoping to find someone who actually has direct experience with this situation.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Kathryn41