Child Custody In Egypt (Slightly Off Topic)

[NY_BX 397]

OMG OMG OMG OMG

I just got settled in back here in Alex, thought I would hop on and see what's new here with my fellow MENA pals and I read this..........

As Amber so nicely put it, we don't all always agree or share opinions here too often but I think you definitely got an honest overwhelming majority opinion 100on this one..

Melissa, I was so hopeful for you and your "fiance" to get through this whole process and I am still more than willing to help out with any advice pertaining to relationship with and marriage to an Egyptian man as well as immigration proceedings once you arrive at this point, as I am sure many here are as well...however this is one topic that no one can help with nor should you even be looking for help unless as a few others have said there is some legitimate reason the mother should not have custody for the "CHILD'S sake" which clearly does not appear to be the case. I am very sorry for saying this and I truly hope I am being too harsh and wrong, but I am really beginning to question the character of a man, specifically an Egyptian man, who would do such a thing or consider it let alone drag you into it. As others have pointed out, the boy is not even living with him and he is not even in Egypt at this point he works in Saudi and only goes back for short visits during summer break..he doesn't have a daily life with this child at this point, how could any good come out of the two of you tearing him from his mother who has basically been he sole parent and uprooting him to a strange country where he will have no one other than his dad and step brother as far as blood relatives go and ppl to look up to with same culture and background and a foreign step mom whom can't even communicate with him?!?!?!?!:blink:

Sweetie, you seem like a really nice and possibly overly caring woman from your previous posts...to be honest I am quite concerned and worried that your "love" and desire to want to make this man happy will be your undoing. No good Egyptian or good man period, would suggest doing this. I also can't help but notice from all of your previous posts how you are constantly looking for ways that seemingly are to make things easier or more conveinent for your "fiance". If he really wants to be actively involved in their lives more than just via skype and the occasional extended vacations, which by the way the boys mother may or may not even allow since you are talking about sending her child out of the country, the best thing you both could do would be live in Egypt...that is what is in the best interest of the children- this is everything and everyone they have ever known..you guys are the adults, you can adapt and make your own choices- they cannot...In addition to worrying about your "fiance's" feelings and wishes, have you for a moment considered those of the young boy? How will he feel towards you, a stranger, some foreign woman, who aided in helping his father take custody of him then uproot him from what as far as any of us know is a happy home and childhood with a mother whom I am certain he is very attached to and will be extremely loyal to especially if his father were to succeed in doing this...this is a recipe for disaster that you really do not want or need to bring into an already complicated and new relationship/marriage.

My suggestion, stay out of this one and please, please, please get to the core of your "man" and everything he truly stands for and make for certain it is in line with your true values and beliefs. It is easy to fall in love with someone online, especially since you spend so much time talking with them since that is basically all you can do from afar, I venture to say most of us here started that same way. The true test of the relationship lies in what happens in person, not how long you are able to nurture and maintain an online relationship, and only at this point will you get to know the real person you are in love with- by living with them day in and day out, during arguments when neither of you can escape by simply signing out of your computer- right now you are focusing on and thinking about the wrong things, you two first need to sort out a good and proper first official meeting. I strongly urge you not to wait until next summer to do so and marry at that point as you previously indicated. Please take a week and go now, have him meet you in Egypt prior to the school year starting- there is still plenty of time especially since Ramadan falls on August 1, this year- if this is impossible, then by all means get him to agree to meet with you for such a visit over winter break..see how it goes in person and between now and then, then plan your marriage for next summer's visit. I am in Egypt now and work in the education system as well, I am very familiar with the breaks and the fact that there are still plenty of opportunities to have such a visit during the next few months.

I gotta stop now, I feel I will get off topic; this just really got to me on many levels so I had to respond in such a way. Please don't take my response as a personal attack, I really really do wish you the very best.

I truly admire your choice of words. You pretty much covered everything we've all been thinking about this "relationship." I am so worried for this lady because I have the deepest, strongest hunch that she is being fooled. This "man" smells like trouble in many levels; maybe unwillingly, but he does. I also hope I am typing ####### and being negative unnecessarily. I wish my thoughts are bull***t. But this lady's posts show an unfullfilling need to satisfy this man at any costs. Maybe this is why her previous marriage failed. Love is 100/100 not 50/50 not 90/10. I've done the 90/10 drill; 90 on my end, 10 on his. Clearly it didn't work and, may I add, he hates me now because I took away that 90% I was giving him (which included money and perks in the entertainment industry). Now I have a man that goes out of his way for me; he gives 100%. So do I and it feels better.

I'm praying for her, and frankly, is for God to open her eyes. My last advice to her: Becareful what you wish for. You may get what you want, but not HOW you want it. Let God give you a bigger blessing.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

This is probably the saddest post I've ever read on VJ. Not long ago, the OP was sharing that this man had his sister raising his older boy for a while, and didn't even want to have the younger child. She said her "fiance's" ex-wife tried to convince him not to divorce her for the sake of the kids, but he didn't seem to have a problem then abandoning his child and moving to Saudi. And now he wants to put them in the home of a woman he's never even met in person before? I'm not saying this to attack the OP or to attack online relationships or anything, but shouldn't just a LITTLE face time be required before moving in the kids?

Wow. I don't know if the OP is even reading this thread anymore. If you are, I really, really, really hope that we are all wrong in what we see here. I hadn't commented earlier but each one of your posts has gotten me more and more and more concerned for you. I know misunderstandings happen easily especially over the internet and we are only hearing bits and pieces of the story and I could be completely off-base, so I'm not trying to judge or predict the future here...I just REALLY hope and pray for you that we're all coming to the wrong conclusions when we see what at least appear from my vantage point to be glaring red flags waving all up and down this relationship. I agree with everything Aly174 wrote. This situation is so sad to me and I fear it is going to get a lot sadder, but I also wish you the best and I hope you find strength and clarity. Good luck.

[Aly174 9]

This is probably the saddest post I've ever read on VJ. Not long ago, the OP was sharing that this man had his sister raising his older boy for a while, and didn't even want to have the younger child. She said her "fiance's" ex-wife tried to convince him not to divorce her for the sake of the kids, but he didn't seem to have a problem then abandoning his child and moving to Saudi. And now he wants to put them in the home of a woman he's never even met in person before? I'm not saying this to attack the OP or to attack online relationships or anything, but shouldn't just a LITTLE face time be required before moving in the kids?

Wow. I don't know if the OP is even reading this thread anymore. If you are, I really, really, really hope that we are all wrong in what we see here. I hadn't commented earlier but each one of your posts has gotten me more and more and more concerned for you. I know misunderstandings happen easily especially over the internet and we are only hearing bits and pieces of the story and I could be completely off-base, so I'm not trying to judge or predict the future here...I just REALLY hope and pray for you that we're all coming to the wrong conclusions when we see what at least appear from my vantage point to be glaring red flags waving all up and down this relationship. I agree with everything Aly174 wrote. This situation is so sad to me and I fear it is going to get a lot sadder, but I also wish you the best and I hope you find strength and clarity. Good luck.

Yes, despite the strong words and opinions that OP's post have inspired...we are all looking for her best interest as well. If not through personal experience, I think we have all at least heard and read enough true horror stories here and else where to be warranted in our concerns. I can't knock meeting online and online relationships and falling madly in love with a man I haven't even met in person...I have been there, it can happen...Al hamdalillah, I got one of the truly good ones....I hope she has as well and we are all overreacting, but I am extremely cautious and worried based on the escalation of her posts...As a wife and someone deeply in love, I would go to the ends of the earth for my husband even walk through hell and back...but we are married and we have proven our relationship and I know with every fiber of my being he would do the same for me without question...she is not even to this point yet and already so consumed with basically how to be a good wife for him..I really hope Melissa, that you have not abandoned this post feeling that we have ganged up on you..if you read everyone's post you will see that is clearly not the intent...most of us have been here for a good while and seen too many things to sit idly by...if you were one of my girlfriends in real life, we would have a girls night out and I would say "honey, what are you thinking?" You said in one of your early posts that you both were in bad marriages when you met and supported one another through the disolution of those...maybe you did truly find your soulmate, but it is also very clear you were both in very vulnerable states so please make 100% certain everything is as it seems there is far too much at stake especially now that the two of you are discussing how to bring his children into the mix...

I do wish you the best and all the strength in the world..(F)no matter what choices you make from here it will not be an easy road. Please don't let this post deter you from seeking help or advice in the future here...this is a great group of people with lots of experience and insight, you just happened to open a very sensitive topic that is going to get lots of heartfelt responses.

[VivianNYC 1]

This is the kind of place where you can take or leave advice, and the women here have given you the best possible advice you could ever hope to get.

As a previous poster said, you should meet your "fiance" as soon as possible, however you can manage it, and stop projecting a life with someone you haven't met face-to-face. And even then, you will both be in vacation-mode, on best behavior, and not be getting a true indication of how he is in "real life". And believe us when we tell you it is very different when you live with someone (especially a MENA man?) day-in day-out, 24/7, than when you are running around exotic places, enjoying yourselves, sight-seeing, and not having to deal with the daily grind of much of real married life. How can you not know that if you've already been married?

I visited my husband half a dozen times before I decided to marry him, and then another half a dozen times before we married. I just can't imagine deciding to marry someone I don't truly know, let alone haven't met. It's worked out great for us, and I hope it works out well for you too, but please, as others have said, really get to know this man in PERSON and DON'T get involved with his child-custody issues, and especially think seriously about a man who would want to go down that path and involve you in that. Put yourself in that innocent child's shoes WAY ahead of everything else. The boy can get to know his half-brother later if he wishes. He needs his mother now. Step back, take a deep breath, read these posts carefully and ponder the hardest you've ever pondered before. You will save yourself (and that boy) a world of grief later on. Good luck!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I didn't say anything because it's not my place to intervene in such a delicate matter. However, we're all talking about solidarity and about joining forces to stop destroying families (i.e. same-sex marriage, for example, which to me is rethoric from the stone ages), and then I read this from a lady that is not thinking clearly at all. I see her posts about visiting him and moving to a 3rd country with him and cooking and what not.... and it increases my worries for her. She sounds like a desperetaly inlove, hopelessly romantic lady that wants to do everything right this time around. I admire that wholeheartedly. The inquiries, however, show the other end of the spectrum.

All this said, my advice to her, and anyone in a similar situation is: do NOT get involved in legal battles from past baggage.... especially when the battlefield is a country other than your own. Period. Done. Love and support, that's it. If HE decides to fight for custody, that's his battle to win or lose. Supporting someone to take away a child from his perfectly fine mother is insanity to the millionth degree. If the mother has engaged in criminal activity, in child abuse or anything like that; if the custody battle is to PROTECT the child, then that's absolutely different.

I'm saying this with the outmost respect and sincere desire for you to succeed. My sister married a man who had a newborn baby from a previous relationship. The ex didn't have the financial assurances to take care of the little girl, but other than that, she was perfectly fit to be a fantastic (in the eyes of the law). My sister and her husband engaged in a custody battle that was epic, to say the least. What was the result? A huge dent in their bank accounts. That's it. My sister became a great stepmother and raised her as her own. Nothing more, nothing less... except money. Was it worth? She now says no. She can't forgive herself for attempting to take that now teenager away from her mom.

I see this all the time. If I had a dollar for every woman I have met who hooked up with a guy who had a kid from a previous relationship and then set her sights on taking the kid away from the mom, Id be rich. I think its more a ploy on the woman's part to some how endear themselves to the man than motivation on the other side to have their kid.

This guy sounds truly truly evil though and honestly, I feel sorry for the girl, the kids and the ex wife. From what I have seen, it takes alot overseas in MENA for women to get fed up to begin with and for her to sack her marriage, she probably did just want her kid and not much else from him.

For me honestly, its the pure complicated evil of the whole thing that pits my stomach. Setting up this poor deluded American girl to get revenge on an ex wife.. whats more mortifying to me is the extent that hes already manipulated her. YIKES..

After every antic I have seen over the last 10 years, I cannot say that I am shocked. Not one bit

Edited June 25, 2011 by I made my bed

[NY_BX 397]

I see this all the time. If I had a dollar for every woman I have met who hooked up with a guy who had a kid from a previous relationship and then set her sights on taking the kid away from the mom, Id be rich. I think its more a ploy on the woman's part to some how endear themselves to the man than motivation on the other side to have their kid.

This guy sounds truly truly evil though and honestly, I feel sorry for the girl, the kids and the ex wife. From what I have seen, it takes alot overseas in MENA for women to get fed up to begin with and for her to sack her marriage, she probably did just want her kid and not much else from him.

For me honestly, its the pure complicated evil of the whole thing that pits my stomach. Setting up this poor deluded American girl to get revenge on an ex wife.. whats more mortifying to me is the extent that hes already manipulated her. YIKES..

After every antic I have seen over the last 10 years, I cannot say that I am shocked. Not one bit

Thank you! Yes, you said it, the man is evil. He is setting this lady up and she is buying it! I am so worried for her....

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Thank you! Yes, you said it, the man is evil. He is setting this lady up and she is buying it! I am so worried for her....

I just thought of a perfect quote for a siggie

I AM THE AMERICAN THEY WARNED YOU ABOUT IN THE INTERNET CAFE.. ( Oh god that doesnt make a lick of sense to anyone except me LOL LOL)

[~ameriptian~ 54]

Am I the only one that feels some people are going WAY overboard here?!

The OP's online boyfriend/fiance has expressed to her his wish of getting custody of both his boys before he joins her in the States.. The OP naively supports him all the way, and comes to VJ to ask if it is legally possible... She is told by other members that his chances of obtaining custody are almost non-existent.. Some members raise questions of why he is bringing this up too early, and why he is raising it up when he lives in another foreign country and doesn't currently have custody of the child...

Even though the situation seems ironical..but he is a parent too, and he can only wish right?? [i personally have no respect for parents who do not put their children as their top priority and are not involved in their children's life on daily basis] I do not identify with him or his logic, but why is almost everybody coming to the conclusion that he is scamming her and wants the kids to have GCs, etc... May be he just wants to build a family with a new woman and still have his children in his life (regardless of the fact that he wants to build that on a poor full-time dedicated mother's misery).. But legally speaking, that can only happen in his imagination, since the mother has been there the whole time for the child, she is financially established, and he has not been physically present in the child's life...

Again, I am not in defense of what the OP's boyfriend's imaginative plan....but seriously!! Why does almost every thread that involves the same famous poster has to turn into: 'OMG The Poor American Woman is Being Scammed by a MENA Man' thread!

[Golden Gate 530]

Am I the only one that feels some people are going WAY overboard here?!

No, you aren't the only one.

[Amber & Ahmed 133]

OMG OMG OMG OMG

I just got settled in back here in Alex, thought I would hop on and see what's new here with my fellow MENA pals and I read this..........

As Amber so nicely put it, we don't all always agree or share opinions here too often but I think you definitely got an honest overwhelming majority opinion 100on this one..

Melissa, I was so hopeful for you and your "fiance" to get through this whole process and I am still more than willing to help out with any advice pertaining to relationship with and marriage to an Egyptian man as well as immigration proceedings once you arrive at this point, as I am sure many here are as well...however this is one topic that no one can help with nor should you even be looking for help unless as a few others have said there is some legitimate reason the mother should not have custody for the "CHILD'S sake" which clearly does not appear to be the case. I am very sorry for saying this and I truly hope I am being too harsh and wrong, but I am really beginning to question the character of a man, specifically an Egyptian man, who would do such a thing or consider it let alone drag you into it. As others have pointed out, the boy is not even living with him and he is not even in Egypt at this point he works in Saudi and only goes back for short visits during summer break..he doesn't have a daily life with this child at this point, how could any good come out of the two of you tearing him from his mother who has basically been he sole parent and uprooting him to a strange country where he will have no one other than his dad and step brother as far as blood relatives go and ppl to look up to with same culture and background and a foreign step mom whom can't even communicate with him?!?!?!?!:blink:

Sweetie, you seem like a really nice and possibly overly caring woman from your previous posts...to be honest I am quite concerned and worried that your "love" and desire to want to make this man happy will be your undoing. No good Egyptian or good man period, would suggest doing this. I also can't help but notice from all of your previous posts how you are constantly looking for ways that seemingly are to make things easier or more conveinent for your "fiance". If he really wants to be actively involved in their lives more than just via skype and the occasional extended vacations, which by the way the boys mother may or may not even allow since you are talking about sending her child out of the country, the best thing you both could do would be live in Egypt...that is what is in the best interest of the children- this is everything and everyone they have ever known..you guys are the adults, you can adapt and make your own choices- they cannot...In addition to worrying about your "fiance's" feelings and wishes, have you for a moment considered those of the young boy? How will he feel towards you, a stranger, some foreign woman, who aided in helping his father take custody of him then uproot him from what as far as any of us know is a happy home and childhood with a mother whom I am certain he is very attached to and will be extremely loyal to especially if his father were to succeed in doing this...this is a recipe for disaster that you really do not want or need to bring into an already complicated and new relationship/marriage.

My suggestion, stay out of this one and please, please, please get to the core of your "man" and everything he truly stands for and make for certain it is in line with your true values and beliefs. It is easy to fall in love with someone online, especially since you spend so much time talking with them since that is basically all you can do from afar, I venture to say most of us here started that same way. The true test of the relationship lies in what happens in person, not how long you are able to nurture and maintain an online relationship, and only at this point will you get to know the real person you are in love with- by living with them day in and day out, during arguments when neither of you can escape by simply signing out of your computer- right now you are focusing on and thinking about the wrong things, you two first need to sort out a good and proper first official meeting. I strongly urge you not to wait until next summer to do so and marry at that point as you previously indicated. Please take a week and go now, have him meet you in Egypt prior to the school year starting- there is still plenty of time especially since Ramadan falls on August 1, this year- if this is impossible, then by all means get him to agree to meet with you for such a visit over winter break..see how it goes in person and between now and then, then plan your marriage for next summer's visit. I am in Egypt now and work in the education system as well, I am very familiar with the breaks and the fact that there are still plenty of opportunities to have such a visit during the next few months.

I gotta stop now, I feel I will get off topic; this just really got to me on many levels so I had to respond in such a way. Please don't take my response as a personal attack, I really really do wish you the very best.

First Aly... so HAPPY you made it to Alex and you are with your man... wooot wooot! Was waiting to hear you made it safely!

Secondly.... I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! You have offered her some good advice, let us just hope she listens .... but to you Aly, I give you a

Keep in touch will ya?

[NeedInfo3839 2]

Oh wow this post did kind of take off, lol. I've been offline for a bit.

Well it seems I left a lot out of the original post.

First, the "12 years old" thing was not my idea of an acceptable age. It just I read that in Egypt, the father has to wait until the kids are 12 before they can go live with him.... Or something like that.

I should also probably note that I came from a hard family. Rough around the edges. Almost everyone has been divorced, myself included. And in most cases, there were custody issues. Half the time, the father got the kids, and half the time the mother got them. Many times, there would be more than one custody battle, and the kids would end up going back and fourth. Plenty of step parents involved. Most of the custodial parents would move far out of visiting reach, after the divorce too. So I suppose at least in my family, the whole subject is a little more causal... Also, my own father raised me VERY far away from my mother, starting at age 10. I never even saw my mom at all, ages 10 to 16.

I wasn't trying to sound inconsiderate or mean, its just really common in my family. We talk about it kind of frankly, as if it were normal, lol.

The other thing is, my man confided in me that he didn't really like agree with her parenting methods, while they were married. Or the condition of the marriage itself. He tried to bring her and the kids to where he worked, because he wanted everyone with him. But she didn't want to come to him, she just wanted to stay in Egypt, and receive money from him.

He strongly felt that she only wanted his money, because it was an arranged marriage. His family worried about him being alone. But she readily volunteered for the marriage, because she wanted the respect of "being married", and because he had a good job. They were never in love. She never wanted much to do with him as a companion. Or with intimacy and such. Kinda slept with her back to him, or in a different room. And didn't really roll out the welcome mat when he came home... Never called him "honey" or "sweetie" stuff like that. Those things are extremely important to him, so it really bothered him a lot.

I guess he eventually figured "Well, if she just wants me to hand over the money, and stay away, then I might as well be free to be with someone who makes me happy." So he divorced her. As a single man, he couldn't take his oldest boy with him where he works, because he is sort of clueless about domestic stuff. So his sister offered to care for his oldest son, while his ex took the youngest. But neither situation was what he had planned for life.

So.... Its probably quite accurate to say that he is holding a "grudge" against his ex, I suppose. And that's why he feels this way. From day one, he just wanted a normal family. Like a wife who loves him, and lives in the same home with him, and see her there with his kids every day. But I think I'm going to have to talk to him, and explain that just because he's angry at her, and he doesn't approve of her parenting methods, doesn't mean he can just erase her and put me in her place. The best it could ever be is me, him, and his oldest son.

We've been talking a lot more about where we will be living, though. He actually wants to apply for jobs in the UAE, because he's not exactly crazy about working in Saudi anymore. I am considering going over to live with him wherever he will be, instead of going through all the U.S. I've already known him for 4 years. And I can't go see him this summer (things have come up), so I have to wait for next summer. And then if we do immigration, it will keep us apart for another year or more, because he I would have to stay in the US and work to maintain the apartment and the income requirement. So that's just not sounding very appealing to either of us.

As for moving wherever he is... Whether I work, or I'm a stay-at-home-mom, its all good with me. He doesn't mind either way. There are plenty of both types of women in my family. I've figured out little ways of making money online and such, and he earns enough, so we wouldn't be without means, wherever we decide to live.

But again, regardless of his personal issues and resentments with his ex, it doesn't sound very doable at all.

[NY_BX 397]

Oh wow this post did kind of take off, lol. I've been offline for a bit.

Well it seems I left a lot out of the original post.

First, the "12 years old" thing was not my idea of an acceptable age. It just I read that in Egypt, the father has to wait until the kids are 12 before they can go live with him.... Or something like that.

I should also probably note that I came from a hard family. Rough around the edges. Almost everyone has been divorced, myself included. And in most cases, there were custody issues. Half the time, the father got the kids, and half the time the mother got them. Many times, there would be more than one custody battle, and the kids would end up going back and fourth. Plenty of step parents involved. Most of the custodial parents would move far out of visiting reach, after the divorce too. So I suppose at least in my family, the whole subject is a little more causal... Also, my own father raised me VERY far away from my mother, starting at age 10. I never even saw my mom at all, ages 10 to 16.

I wasn't trying to sound inconsiderate or mean, its just really common in my family. We talk about it kind of frankly, as if it were normal, lol.

The other thing is, my man confided in me that he didn't really like agree with her parenting methods, while they were married. Or the condition of the marriage itself. He tried to bring her and the kids to where he worked, because he wanted everyone with him. But she didn't want to come to him, she just wanted to stay in Egypt, and receive money from him.

He strongly felt that she only wanted his money, because it was an arranged marriage. His family worried about him being alone. But she readily volunteered for the marriage, because she wanted the respect of "being married", and because he had a good job. They were never in love. She never wanted much to do with him as a companion. Or with intimacy and such. Kinda slept with her back to him, or in a different room. And didn't really roll out the welcome mat when he came home... Never called him "honey" or "sweetie" stuff like that. Those things are extremely important to him, so it really bothered him a lot.

I guess he eventually figured "Well, if she just wants me to hand over the money, and stay away, then I might as well be free to be with someone who makes me happy." So he divorced her. As a single man, he couldn't take his oldest boy with him where he works, because he is sort of clueless about domestic stuff. So his sister offered to care for his oldest son, while his ex took the youngest. But neither situation was what he had planned for life.

So.... Its probably quite accurate to say that he is holding a "grudge" against his ex, I suppose. And that's why he feels this way. From day one, he just wanted a normal family. Like a wife who loves him, and lives in the same home with him, and see her there with his kids every day. But I think I'm going to have to talk to him, and explain that just because he's angry at her, and he doesn't approve of her parenting methods, doesn't mean he can just erase her and put me in her place. The best it could ever be is me, him, and his oldest son.

We've been talking a lot more about where we will be living, though. He actually wants to apply for jobs in the UAE, because he's not exactly crazy about working in Saudi anymore. I am considering going over to live with him wherever he will be, instead of going through all the U.S. I've already known him for 4 years. And I can't go see him this summer (things have come up), so I have to wait for next summer. And then if we do immigration, it will keep us apart for another year or more, because he I would have to stay in the US and work to maintain the apartment and the income requirement. So that's just not sounding very appealing to either of us.

As for moving wherever he is... Whether I work, or I'm a stay-at-home-mom, its all good with me. He doesn't mind either way. There are plenty of both types of women in my family. I've figured out little ways of making money online and such, and he earns enough, so we wouldn't be without means, wherever we decide to live.

But again, regardless of his personal issues and resentments with his ex, it doesn't sound very doable at all.

So, he IS angry at her, for not being the "coockie cutter, obeying" wife and that's the reason why the child "must pay." Do you even listen to yourself?

I rest your case. Don't say we didn't warn you. Good luck in all your endeavours....

[NY_BX 397]

Am I the only one that feels some people are going WAY overboard here?!

The OP's online boyfriend/fiance has expressed to her his wish of getting custody of both his boys before he joins her in the States.. The OP naively supports him all the way, and comes to VJ to ask if it is legally possible... She is told by other members that his chances of obtaining custody are almost non-existent.. Some members raise questions of why he is bringing this up too early, and why he is raising it up when he lives in another foreign country and doesn't currently have custody of the child...

Even though the situation seems ironical..but he is a parent too, and he can only wish right?? [i personally have no respect for parents who do not put their children as their top priority and are not involved in their children's life on daily basis] I do not identify with him or his logic, but why is almost everybody coming to the conclusion that he is scamming her and wants the kids to have GCs, etc... May be he just wants to build a family with a new woman and still have his children in his life (regardless of the fact that he wants to build that on a poor full-time dedicated mother's misery).. But legally speaking, that can only happen in his imagination, since the mother has been there the whole time for the child, she is financially established, and he has not been physically present in the child's life...

Again, I am not in defense of what the OP's boyfriend's imaginative plan....but seriously!! Why does almost every thread that involves the same famous poster has to turn into: 'OMG The Poor American Woman is Being Scammed by a MENA Man' thread!

Because we've been reading her posts time and time again and this one, yes, pushed US over-the-edge. Yes, maybe we went a little too far, but guess what? I do not feel bad at all for telling my own unobjective truth. Simple as that. I am a proactive person, not reactive. If I see (or read) you're about to fall off a cliff, I will certainly bring attention to that.

So, overboard is the operating word... but not for her; for the community that's mapping her words. I wish, frankly, all communities were like that. A lot of domestic violence, child abuse and even bullying would be prevented.

I said it....

[Amber & Ahmed 133]

Because we've been reading her posts time and time again and this one, yes, pushed US over-the-edge. Yes, maybe we went a little too far, but guess what? I do not feel bad at all for telling my own unobjective truth. Simple as that. I am a proactive person, not reactive. If I see (or read) you're about to fall off a cliff, I will certainly bring attention to that.

So, overboard is the operating word... but not for her; for the community that's mapping her words. I wish, frankly, all communities were like that. A lot of domestic violence, child abuse and even bullying would be prevented.

I said it....

Amen, enough said

[Crossed_fingers 128]

Oh wow this post did kind of take off, lol. I've been offline for a bit.

Well it seems I left a lot out of the original post.

First, the "12 years old" thing was not my idea of an acceptable age. It just I read that in Egypt, the father has to wait until the kids are 12 before they can go live with him.... Or something like that.

I should also probably note that I came from a hard family. Rough around the edges. Almost everyone has been divorced, myself included. And in most cases, there were custody issues. Half the time, the father got the kids, and half the time the mother got them. Many times, there would be more than one custody battle, and the kids would end up going back and fourth. Plenty of step parents involved. Most of the custodial parents would move far out of visiting reach, after the divorce too. So I suppose at least in my family, the whole subject is a little more causal... Also, my own father raised me VERY far away from my mother, starting at age 10. I never even saw my mom at all, ages 10 to 16.

I wasn't trying to sound inconsiderate or mean, its just really common in my family. We talk about it kind of frankly, as if it were normal, lol.

The other thing is, my man confided in me that he didn't really like agree with her parenting methods, while they were married. Or the condition of the marriage itself. He tried to bring her and the kids to where he worked, because he wanted everyone with him. But she didn't want to come to him, she just wanted to stay in Egypt, and receive money from him.

He strongly felt that she only wanted his money, because it was an arranged marriage. His family worried about him being alone. But she readily volunteered for the marriage, because she wanted the respect of "being married", and because he had a good job. They were never in love. She never wanted much to do with him as a companion. Or with intimacy and such. Kinda slept with her back to him, or in a different room. And didn't really roll out the welcome mat when he came home... Never called him "honey" or "sweetie" stuff like that. Those things are extremely important to him, so it really bothered him a lot.

I guess he eventually figured "Well, if she just wants me to hand over the money, and stay away, then I might as well be free to be with someone who makes me happy." So he divorced her. As a single man, he couldn't take his oldest boy with him where he works, because he is sort of clueless about domestic stuff. So his sister offered to care for his oldest son, while his ex took the youngest. But neither situation was what he had planned for life.

So.... Its probably quite accurate to say that he is holding a "grudge" against his ex, I suppose. And that's why he feels this way. From day one, he just wanted a normal family. Like a wife who loves him, and lives in the same home with him, and see her there with his kids every day. But I think I'm going to have to talk to him, and explain that just because he's angry at her, and he doesn't approve of her parenting methods, doesn't mean he can just erase her and put me in her place. The best it could ever be is me, him, and his oldest son.

We've been talking a lot more about where we will be living, though. He actually wants to apply for jobs in the UAE, because he's not exactly crazy about working in Saudi anymore. I am considering going over to live with him wherever he will be, instead of going through all the U.S. I've already known him for 4 years. And I can't go see him this summer (things have come up), so I have to wait for next summer. And then if we do immigration, it will keep us apart for another year or more, because he I would have to stay in the US and work to maintain the apartment and the income requirement. So that's just not sounding very appealing to either of us.

As for moving wherever he is... Whether I work, or I'm a stay-at-home-mom, its all good with me. He doesn't mind either way. There are plenty of both types of women in my family. I've figured out little ways of making money online and such, and he earns enough, so we wouldn't be without means, wherever we decide to live.

But again, regardless of his personal issues and resentments with his ex, it doesn't sound very doable at all.

I'm sorry. I hope you find strength and build up your self-esteem and love for yourself. I hope you surround yourself with people who respect you and treat you well. I hope you find a therapist or other means of building yourself up. I can't read your posts anymore. You seem like a sweet person, but I don't think you will ever see, at least without effective counseling or some other kind of epiphany, just what you are saying here. That was a very long post explaining the situation, and the entire post had to do with your fiance's desires to please himself, and your desire to please him. Not one word about anyone looking out for the child or thinking about the child's desires. Not one word in this thread about your independent desire to have a kid or two, your experience with raising children, whether you've build up a relationship online with the children, or anything. It's an immigration website, not a relationship website, and of course you're not obligated to provide any of that information.....BUT you responded at length to the situation in general, and your tunnel vision is so painfully glaring that I don't think you even realize you omitted the key facts, and as in all of your posts, inadvertently left me with a worse impression of your man and your future relationship. As I said before, although I know my words can't feel good to read right now, I am saying this out of concern. I just can't read about it anymore, though, because sometimes when a train wreck looks like it might happen, you need to squeeze your eyes shut, cover your ears, look the other way, and just pray that at the last minute the trains won't collide.

To the poster who felt the discussion was too much and came to the "MENA man uses Western woman" conclusion too quickly: It's not that I disagree with you completely about how overwhelming the responses have been. I've wondered how it must feel to come back online and read all these responses that were so unanimously and forcefully saying strong condemnations about someone's relationship and SO. With that said, I agree with the content of all of them. This is an instance where I think some people have seen some pretty bad stuff out there and feel compelled to shout out to the driver, "Hey, are you sure your train isn't about to crash?? Because from where I'm standing it looks like you're headed straight for another train." It's not because the fiance has stated his wish to be a live-in dad. For me, it's the context of all of the OP's posts, which time and time again display a major level of emotional vulnerability, a desperation to change herself and her entire life for a person she hasn't met in person yet, and an ease of trashing this man's ex-wife based on the trash he's spoken about her. The man's apparent callousness when it comes to raising his kids, his willingness to move to the US when he has a kid to leave even further behind despite making enough money now to support him, the man's pursuit of the OP while she was a married woman and his apparent interest and contact with her throughout his own marriage, the rush to marry and cobble together a family with existing children before even meeting in person...all of that is just icing on the "this smells like manipulation" cake. I think people are responding as much to the fact that the OP's posts sound like those of a victim or potential victim, as to hard evidence that the fiance is trying to scam her, but then requests like the custody thing don't help him look any better. I'm not saying the relationship IS fraud or that my observations are correct or anything, I'm just trying to explain that it was a bigger picture that I was looking at that had me so concerned, not just a simple pipe dream to have his boys live under one roof.