Pulitzer-prize winner Vargas says he's an illegal immigrant

[B_J 2,752]

So a kid commits a crime then he is still not a criminal but just a kid?

I don't think any rational person would call him a criminal for how he entered the country when he was 12. However, there are a number of other things he's done since then that could warrant that label.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So a kid commits a crime then he is still not a criminal but just a kid?

Do you not understand that the law treats minors differently to adults?

Have you just fallen out of a tree or something?

[Messybrownhair 251]

I hope they deport him.. No one should be above the law, or get away with something like this. He falsified documents and claimed to be a US Citizen, they need to make an example out of him. This is what I think should happen, but he will probably just get away with it

[SMR 368]

The act of illegally entering the country is a crime. Unfortunately, that virtually never gets detected.

It may not be detected in the act. But it isn't hard to tell when it has happened after the fact. If someone is in the country without a record of their entry, they can reasonably be assumed to have entered illegally.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

So a kid commits a crime then he is still not a criminal but just a kid?

Are reading another forum and accidentally posting in this one? Again, no one said anything like that in this thread. Per the CNN article he has confessed to committing at least a few crimes, and I think everyone is in agreement that makes him a criminal.

On another note, I do think that minors who are brought into this country are in a gray area and hopefully receive special consideration before an immigration judge. In this person's case, if I were a judge, I would deport him and probably make him inadmissible. He has family in his home country, he has book deals etc, an education etc. that will help him succeed no matter where he lives

In a previous example, a woman who was adopted illegally by American parents, I would say the opposite. I think these cases with minors involved need extra scrutiny by the system. But in this person's case I agree with your opinion.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Sousuke

[Zero Sum 305]

Are reading another forum and accidentally posting in this one? Again, no one said anything like that in this thread. Per the CNN article he has confessed to committing at least a few crimes, and I think everyone is in agreement that makes him a criminal.

On another note, I do think that minors who are brought into this country are in a gray area and hopefully receive special consideration before an immigration judge. In this person's case, if I were a judge, I would deport him and probably make him inadmissible. He has family in his home country, he has book deals etc, an education etc. that will help him succeed no matter where he lives

In a previous example, a woman who was adopted illegally by American parents, I would say the opposite. I think these cases with minors involved need extra scrutiny by the system. But in this person's case I agree with your opinion.

Yep. Criminal laws as they pertain to minors aside, if he's committed a crime as an adult, that in itself makes him deportable.

If anything, being a writer should open up quite the opportunity for him to write about the entire ordeal- he may be repentant and remorseful after all, from his native country. He can take advantage of the opportunities he has had for the rest of his life.

And all this can be accomplished without hysterical citizens looking for blood to go into a frenzy of 'examples' or ridiculous vendettas of 'justice.'

As for minors that are here illegally as a consequence of their parents actions', and show to be more American than anything else... hopefully they can be the only target of things like the DREAM Act in its nth iteration.

[ceadsearc 516]

He obviously made his own choices as an adult to misrepresent himself. But as for being a criminal as a kid - he was a kid. His mother told him to do something, that it doesn't even sound like he knew was illegal at the time. When parents use their kids to traffic drugs or any other number of crimes, it isn't the kids fault.

But what he did as an adult, yes, that's his fault.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Per the CNN Article he knew he wasn't legally in the US since he was 16.

He has committed many felonies in order to live his life here.

He has made false claim to US Citizenship, probably multiple times.

I don't feel sorry for him.

[snooki703 7]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/magazine/my-life-as-an-undocumented-immigrant.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

For those of you who are inclined, the above link is Vargas's own account of his story published in the New York Times Magazine last Sunday, titled "My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant" written by Vargas himself. Reading this adds many more layers of complexity and thought to the debate, once you read his own words.

In every respect, America is the only home Vargas has ever known (he was brought into the country by a coyote when he was 12 years old, from the Philippines).

He definitely puts a face to the "illegal immigrant" that many of us probably associate with low-skilled, blue collar laborers. He won a Pullitzer Prize and wrote for the most respected publications in the country including the Washington Post and the New Yorker. He obtained a bachelors degree in the US. He pays federal and state taxes.

While Vargas may be undocumented, everything about him is American: his ambition, his talent, his desire for success, his diligence, and of course sheer bravery for actually sharing his story last week. I would love to officially welcome Vargas into the rich, diverse, capitalist, and beautiful fabric of America. He adds value to my country. He contributes to our intellect, as seen in his Pulitzer winning journalism. And he shares The Dream.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/magazine/my-life-as-an-undocumented-immigrant.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

For those of you who are inclined, the above link is Vargas's own account of his story published in the New York Times Magazine last Sunday, titled "My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant" written by Vargas himself. Reading this adds many more layers of complexity and thought to the debate, once you read his own words.

In every respect, America is the only home Vargas has ever known (he was brought into the country by a coyote when he was 12 years old, from the Philippines).

He definitely puts a face to the "illegal immigrant" that many of us probably associate with low-skilled, blue collar laborers. He won a Pullitzer Prize and wrote for the most respected publications in the country including the Washington Post and the New Yorker. He obtained a bachelors degree in the US. He pays federal and state taxes.

While Vargas may be undocumented, everything about him is American: his ambition, his talent, his desire for success, his diligence, and of course sheer bravery for actually sharing his story last week. I would love to officially welcome Vargas into the rich, diverse, capitalist, and beautiful fabric of America. He adds value to my country. He contributes to our intellect, as seen in his Pulitzer winning journalism. And he shares The Dream.

He's a criminal.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

While Vargas may be undocumented, everything about him is American: his ambition, his talent, his desire for success, his diligence, and of course sheer bravery for actually sharing his story last week. I would love to officially welcome Vargas into the rich, diverse, capitalist, and beautiful fabric of America. He adds value to my country. He contributes to our intellect, as seen in his Pulitzer winning journalism. And he shares The Dream.

Never mind the fact that he has committed many felonies and probably made false claim of US Citizenship which means he is subject to a lifetime ban and can never receive LPR status.

But I guess since he has won the Pulitzer Prize we should forget about all of that because that's just being American!?!?

[snooki703 7]

Never mind the fact that he has committed many felonies and probably made false claim of US Citizenship which means he is subject to a lifetime ban and can never receive LPR status.

But I guess since he has won the Pulitzer Prize we should forget about all of that because that's just being American!?!?

There is a logical fallacy here (sorry I was a math major). Being American and being a "criminal"/felon are certainly never mutually exclusive. Not having US Citizenship and being American, is also not a mutually exclusive proposition. Vargas, who was educated, raised, and culturally, socially, and ideologically absorbed into America is most certainly American, whether he has his papers or not. Whether he gets deported or not.

If Vargas is considered a criminal, then the more important issue is immigration reform in order to sort the bad guys from the value-adding, society-contributing, brilliant minds like Vargas. Deport rapists, bottom feeders, murderers, welfare queens, and prostitutes. Give America more talented, driven, and intellectual souls like Vargas who will make my country smarter, richer, and better. Absolutely.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

There is a logical fallacy here (sorry I was a math major). Being American and being a "criminal"/felon are certainly never mutually exclusive. Not having US Citizenship and being American, is also not a mutually exclusive proposition. Vargas, who was educated, raised, and culturally, socially, and ideologically absorbed into America is most certainly American, whether he has his papers or not. Whether he gets deported or not.

If Vargas is considered a criminal, then the more important issue is immigration reform in order to sort the bad guys from the value-adding, society-contributing, brilliant minds like Vargas. Deport rapists, bottom feeders, murderers, welfare queens, and prostitutes. Give America more talented, driven, and intellectual souls like Vargas who will make my country smarter, richer, and better. Absolutely.

So your saying the US should be more selective on what criminals they decide to deport yes ?

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

There is a logical fallacy here (sorry I was a math major). Being American and being a "criminal"/felon are certainly never mutually exclusive. Not having US Citizenship and being American, is also not a mutually exclusive proposition. Vargas, who was educated, raised, and culturally, socially, and ideologically absorbed into America is most certainly American, whether he has his papers or not. Whether he gets deported or not.

If Vargas is considered a criminal, then the more important issue is immigration reform in order to sort the bad guys from the value-adding, society-contributing, brilliant minds like Vargas. Deport rapists, bottom feeders, murderers, welfare queens, and prostitutes. Give America more talented, driven, and intellectual souls like Vargas who will make my country smarter, richer, and better. Absolutely.

So since I am a contributing member of society making a very good salary in a hi-tech industry I should be able to commit multiple felonies and just be forgiven without and negative repercussions?

I never knew that American means only stupid low paid people are held accountable for there actions, silly me.

BTW, I don't see where I said either set of conditions were mutually exclusive. Honestly the whole Logical Fallacy comment is a poorly constructed Red Herring as tree or not it has no bearing on the issue at hand.

Edited June 25, 2011 by Bob 4 Anna

[snooki703 7]

So your saying the US should be more selective on what criminals they decide to deport yes ?

Via legislative reform on key immigration policies - yes. It is obviously too late for Vargas, and I agree no one is above the law so he should expect nothing less than be subject to removal proceedings. But in the future....

America can provide legal pathways for hard working, value-creating, gifted individuals like Vargas. Currently, permanent residency in the US is exceedingly difficult to establish unless through marriage to a US citizen or through other family petitions. There is no formal way to attract innovators, geniuses, and brilliant minds into this country (arguably we have H1B into the green card pathway, but this system is also highly broken and flawed).