Supporting Fiancee'

[TBoneTX 45,155]

I always had a "three date rule". If I didn't get laid by the third date they were history.

Well, that too, three man... er, si man. That is, if I liked them and thought that they respected me and regarded me well.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Well, that too, three man... er, si man. That is, if I liked them and thought that they respected me and regarded me well.

I was never in for the respect part...that was just an extra. I always considered cost vs sex. I mean never splurge on the first few dates... Olive Garden or Red Lobster, a few drinks and some cheap hooch. No gifts or any of that #######. Then if even they are using you yet they are terrific in bed...well who cares....it's not like your going to marry them. Now as far as a wife goes...of course you want wife material...a chick that's really into it, etc, etc.. no games, etc.. some sh*t...

[Brad and Vika 129]

Wow, I started this discussion a couple of weeks ago and the replies back were certainly of interest. After reading and thinking things over, I began to become very skeptical of my fiance. We just completed a trip together for a week in Mexico, and I will say, it was a disaster. I think I went in with this in the back of my mind: am I being used or does she really love me. She's led me to believe that she's really not the type of woman to show lots of emotion, such as the typical feelings you have at the beginning of a relationship (can't get enough of each other, wanting to kiss and screw all the time, smiling at each other, your heart skipping a beat when you see each other, etc). Even though I thought her behavior was odd, I accepted it and wanted to be open minded.

Anyway, the week was filled with fighting. It would start with her making me feel like I was always annoying her. I would eventually get pissed, because, #######, we're here together, no one should feel like that. All I was trying to do was know her better, and create a stronger bond or whatever. I've been married before, and have many relationships over my 46 years, so I can say with certainty, this was the strangest way to ever be treated. She's very good at turning the situation around to make me feel like I'm over reacting, or as she puts it "drama". I've learned she's pretty good at this.

Anyway, all week long she's checking her email and facebook page from my laptop. Not just once a day, but 5 or more times. That really isn't so unordinary I guess, but I still thought it was something that made me uncomfortable. At the end we parted, made up for the fights, got laid (although I've never seen a woman run so fast to shower after sex in my life, does sperm eat through Ukrainain skin or something? anyways...) When I got home, I opened up my laptop and her facebook page was still open and online! Holy #######, I said, this is not right to look and besides it's in Russian which I know not how to speak, but I was still curious. I opened up her photos and man she has maybe over 1000 pictures of HERSELF in there. There must be at least 6-8 different places, Thailand, Jamaica, Kiev, DR, and some I can only guess. I saw our 2 trips, not one photo of the two of us anywhere. I know she's a camera fiend (everywhere we go - take picture!) All I could think of was how much I hated taking those 400 pictures on our March trip and under protest, she only got about 150 on this trip. AND, those other poor bastards that took all those other photos! And the money they spend taking her on trips, although thank god none were during our time since meeting, so that made me feel good. lol. Next thing I did was discover that these wonderful computers can interpret russian facebook conversations! And my worst fears were answered, she's communicating with many men in Russia, some of the conversations are not a big deal, but there were at least three that I saw (I can't spend forever there) with talking of meeting these guys, all within the last month or so. So I apparently have my answer: Yes this girl is scamming me, and no she probably doesn't love you. A real kick in the balls but better to know now.

I know she still wants to get to the US, and get her greencard, but I know she'd never be true to me. OK, now is there anywhere here that wants to show me another point of view, something I'm not thinking of, like, no #######, it's very possible she loves you and wants to spend her life with you, she's just using facebook to fill the void when you're not there....anyone?

Forst K&S, thanks for putting this out there. A fair number of USCs just vanish from the forum when this stuff happens.

Kind in reverse order - no, she is not using facebook to fill a void, it is likely other men filling the void. There are gals (usually lookers) that make a fine living from foreign men by stringing several along until they bail.

The picture thing is cultural I think. We visited Alaska a month or so ago, and took about 500 pics. A significant percentage of them are just Vika, and I also get way tired of snapping pics for her friends group on Odnoklasniki. If I am not in the mood - she has no trouble stopping strangers to do it. Sometimes I feel like it is Vika's Adventure, and I am a player-but she definitely does not have a co-star

There are enough cultural differences that there will definitely be some disagreements early on during courtship. The trouble is that most Ukrainian women tend to bite their tounges early on, and may play some games but are unlikely to really show you nastiness until you are committed (unless of course GFs think she is being mistreated in some way and tell her to).

Lack of affection of any kind should not be a problem at all. If she really wants to marry you, for a variety of reasons she will let you know physically. It may not always be reflected publicly, but privately you should have no doubt. If you aren't being vetted by family and girlfriends there is a huge problem imo depending on her age.

My two cents

[baron555 934]

Well, K&S, sri really to hear all this but better now than later.

My wife is snapshot-happy also but we have quite a few photos of the entire family or Leonid and I and Leonid and her and many with just her; she does like to strike a pose.

But....she shares all with her family and friends, especially those of the entire family.

No photos of you or you two on her Facebook page should have been a big red flag; especially with the many visits you guys made.

As I stated early on, you sending her money to live was a big big red flag and then your fairly large age difference and then her being in her twenties was a bigger red flag......all of which were true.

You broke a couple of the cardinal rules and thus you are where you are.

There are many very nice and very real women in the FSU; you just need to rethink your master plan, tighten up your search criteria and move forward.

I'd suggest you limit the age to no younger than 32......and a woman with a child will be looking to complete the family.

My wife and I have had some disagreements but we have never fought.....we both went into all this knowing that our marriage would be challenged and we understand when we are on the brink and back off and don't let that stuff affect our love for each other. We both are compatible in that we deal with the problem at hand, quickly, and then move on and stay happy.

[K & S 0]

Forst K&S, thanks for putting this out there. A fair number of USCs just vanish from the forum when this stuff happens.

Kind in reverse order - no, she is not using facebook to fill a void, it is likely other men filling the void. There are gals (usually lookers) that make a fine living from foreign men by stringing several along until they bail.

The picture thing is cultural I think. We visited Alaska a month or so ago, and took about 500 pics. A significant percentage of them are just Vika, and I also get way tired of snapping pics for her friends group on Odnoklasniki. If I am not in the mood - she has no trouble stopping strangers to do it. Sometimes I feel like it is Vika's Adventure, and I am a player-but she definitely does not have a co-star

There are enough cultural differences that there will definitely be some disagreements early on during courtship. The trouble is that most Ukrainian women tend to bite their tounges early on, and may play some games but are unlikely to really show you nastiness until you are committed (unless of course GFs think she is being mistreated in some way and tell her to).

Lack of affection of any kind should not be a problem at all. If she really wants to marry you, for a variety of reasons she will let you know physically. It may not always be reflected publicly, but privately you should have no doubt. If you aren't being vetted by family and girlfriends there is a huge problem imo depending on her age.

My two cents

[K & S 0]

I didn't clarify, it's Russian Facebook, so here interest comes from men in her area. She has thousands of photos in nice clothes and bikinis, so isn't that a little like fishing with lots of live bait? Is it possible Russian Facebook has a cultural difference? The men have it good there, many choices, the woman, they need to compete. With their photos, they see if they can attract, so maybe it's normal for a woman to do this on their site, does that make sense?

[eekee 182]

I didn't clarify, it's Russian Facebook, so here interest comes from men in her area. She has thousands of photos in nice clothes and bikinis, so isn't that a little like fishing with lots of live bait? Is it possible Russian Facebook has a cultural difference? The men have it good there, many choices, the woman, they need to compete. With their photos, they see if they can attract, so maybe it's normal for a woman to do this on their site, does that make sense?

Well, lots of women I am friends with on Russian facebook have those kinds of photos up and I think it is just a cultural thing. If I put an entire album of myself on facebook of me on vacation in a bikini, people would think it was weird. For Russians, it's normal, even if they have a boyfriend/fiance/husband. It's not about "attracting" anyone.

*But* if she's flirting with dudes on vkontakte? Frankly, it's probably guys she knows in real life whom she met at a bar or whatever that she is flirting with, not guys that she is meeting on there. I would say that vkontakte plays a much more important social function in Russia than facebook does in the US because we don't have unlimited texting or anything and if someone is home, they are probably on vkontakte because that's also how people listen to music/watch tv and movies. So if she is spending a lot of time flirting with guys on vkontakte, there is nothing innocent about it. They are probably guys she knows locally and not flirtations from far away. You said she is meeting up these guys? Yeah.

[K & S 0]

Forst K&S, thanks for putting this out there. A fair number of USCs just vanish from the forum when this stuff happens.

Kind in reverse order - no, she is not using facebook to fill a void, it is likely other men filling the void. There are gals (usually lookers) that make a fine living from foreign men by stringing several along until they bail.

The picture thing is cultural I think. We visited Alaska a month or so ago, and took about 500 pics. A significant percentage of them are just Vika, and I also get way tired of snapping pics for her friends group on Odnoklasniki. If I am not in the mood - she has no trouble stopping strangers to do it. Sometimes I feel like it is Vika's Adventure, and I am a player-but she definitely does not have a co-star

There are enough cultural differences that there will definitely be some disagreements early on during courtship. The trouble is that most Ukrainian women tend to bite their tounges early on, and may play some games but are unlikely to really show you nastiness until you are committed (unless of course GFs think she is being mistreated in some way and tell her to).

Lack of affection of any kind should not be a problem at all. If she really wants to marry you, for a variety of reasons she will let you know physically. It may not always be reflected publicly, but privately you should have no doubt. If you aren't being vetted by family and girlfriends there is a huge problem imo depending on her age.

My two cents

And that's what I'm having such trouble with - when I'm with her and when we talk or even argue, I always feel she's committed and interested in the idea of marriage. I think my displays of jealousy and insecurity have been my worst enemy, and breaking down the bond. She's grown to be worried about my committment to this idea of marriage. She's told me so. It's hard to be myself when I'm thinking the worst in the back of my mind....She's not one to bite her tongue, she's actually very mature and reasonable, and she's set me straight more than once.

[K & S 0]

Well, lots of women I am friends with on Russian facebook have those kinds of photos up and I think it is just a cultural thing. If I put an entire album of myself on facebook of me on vacation in a bikini, people would think it was weird. For Russians, it's normal, even if they have a boyfriend/fiance/husband. It's not about "attracting" anyone.

*But* if she's flirting with dudes on vkontakte? Frankly, it's probably guys she knows in real life whom she met at a bar or whatever that she is flirting with, not guys that she is meeting on there. I would say that vkontakte plays a much more important social function in Russia than facebook does in the US because we don't have unlimited texting or anything and if someone is home, they are probably on vkontakte because that's also how people listen to music/watch tv and movies. So if she is spending a lot of time flirting with guys on vkontakte, there is nothing innocent about it. They are probably guys she knows locally and not flirtations from far away. You said she is meeting up these guys? Yeah.

I don't know if she has for sure, I'm relying on technology to translate accurately. It does seem there is many men she talks to, and some mention of meetings, but SO vague, nothing written that would make me sure. The conversations that seem flirty seem to be from strangers actually. Any suggestions how to ask her about this topic?

[eekee 182]

No, she'll either get pissed off or tell you what you want to hear.

How many )))) does she punctuate her sentences with?

[K & S 0]

No, she'll either get pissed off or tell you what you want to hear.

How many )))) does she punctuate her sentences with?

sometimes one, some two, some three and some four. What is the significance?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Wow, I started this discussion a couple of weeks ago and the replies back were certainly of interest. After reading and thinking things over, I began to become very skeptical of my fiance. We just completed a trip together for a week in Mexico, and I will say, it was a disaster. I think I went in with this in the back of my mind: am I being used or does she really love me. She's led me to believe that she's really not the type of woman to show lots of emotion, such as the typical feelings you have at the beginning of a relationship (can't get enough of each other, wanting to kiss and screw all the time, smiling at each other, your heart skipping a beat when you see each other, etc). Even though I thought her behavior was odd, I accepted it and wanted to be open minded.

Anyway, the week was filled with fighting. It would start with her making me feel like I was always annoying her. I would eventually get pissed, because, #######, we're here together, no one should feel like that. All I was trying to do was know her better, and create a stronger bond or whatever. I've been married before, and have many relationships over my 46 years, so I can say with certainty, this was the strangest way to ever be treated. She's very good at turning the situation around to make me feel like I'm over reacting, or as she puts it "drama". I've learned she's pretty good at this.

Anyway, all week long she's checking her email and facebook page from my laptop. Not just once a day, but 5 or more times. That really isn't so unordinary I guess, but I still thought it was something that made me uncomfortable. At the end we parted, made up for the fights, got laid (although I've never seen a woman run so fast to shower after sex in my life, does sperm eat through Ukrainain skin or something? anyways...) When I got home, I opened up my laptop and her facebook page was still open and online! Holy #######, I said, this is not right to look and besides it's in Russian which I know not how to speak, but I was still curious. I opened up her photos and man she has maybe over 1000 pictures of HERSELF in there. There must be at least 6-8 different places, Thailand, Jamaica, Kiev, DR, and some I can only guess. I saw our 2 trips, not one photo of the two of us anywhere. I know she's a camera fiend (everywhere we go - take picture!) All I could think of was how much I hated taking those 400 pictures on our March trip and under protest, she only got about 150 on this trip. AND, those other poor bastards that took all those other photos! And the money they spend taking her on trips, although thank god none were during our time since meeting, so that made me feel good. lol. Next thing I did was discover that these wonderful computers can interpret russian facebook conversations! And my worst fears were answered, she's communicating with many men in Russia, some of the conversations are not a big deal, but there were at least three that I saw (I can't spend forever there) with talking of meeting these guys, all within the last month or so. So I apparently have my answer: Yes this girl is scamming me, and no she probably doesn't love you. A real kick in the balls but better to know now.

I know she still wants to get to the US, and get her greencard, but I know she'd never be true to me. OK, now is there anywhere here that wants to show me another point of view, something I'm not thinking of, like, no #######, it's very possible she loves you and wants to spend her life with you, she's just using facebook to fill the void when you're not there....anyone?

Lose her as quickly as possible. The photo thing means nothing in itself, other than she is taking a lot of expensive vacations that she is not paying for. Alla LOVES having her photo taken. Spending tme on email and facebook is a deal breaker. She is scamming you and her actions never resembled those of a sincere woman, let alone a sincere Ukrainian woman.

Now for the next advice...

I do not judge people's marriages and I will say nothing bad about anyone's personal relationships. That said, the traditional Ukrainian woman is much more likely to be found in a woman that had significant life experience in the Soviet Union. You are 45. While there may be some sincere and traditional women 20 years younger than you that want to be your wife, you will have MUCH better results looking for women 35-40 years old. There are plenty of extremely attractive women in their 40's in Ukraine. Alla is "in her 40s" (and I will say nothing more about that subject ) but most 20 somethings would kill to have her looks and body. Raise your sights and you will be happier. IMHO

[baron555 934]

Lose her as quickly as possible. The photo thing means nothing in itself, other than she is taking a lot of expensive vacations that she is not paying for. Alla LOVES having her photo taken. Spending tme on email and facebook is a deal breaker. She is scamming you and her actions never resembled those of a sincere woman, let alone a sincere Ukrainian woman.

Now for the next advice...

I do not judge people's marriages and I will say nothing bad about anyone's personal relationships. That said, the traditional Ukrainian woman is much more likely to be found in a woman that had significant life experience in the Soviet Union. You are 45. While there may be some sincere and traditional women 20 years younger than you that want to be your wife, you will have MUCH better results looking for women 35-40 years old. There are plenty of extremely attractive women in their 40's in Ukraine. Alla is "in her 40s" (and I will say nothing more about that subject ) but most 20 somethings would kill to have her looks and body. Raise your sights and you will be happier. IMHO

Yep, as stated, you'll find women more to your liking and your ilk above 30 than below.

My Alla asked what I was doing on the computer this morning so when we all were driving to the lake to go canoeing this morning, I told her about your story, as related here on VJ.

Before I could even get beyond your first posting, she stated, "She's a scammer." 25 and can't find a job (she did qualify that if she was between jobs, that was a different story) and you paid for her every week. She asked how much you were sending. I told her that you didn't say. Her response is that even if it was for 30 dollars a week, multiply that by 9 more men and that's a nice job and nice life. And nice vacations every so often.

Nothing more from me about the subject, but we all here can offer our collective experience.

We have walked though the minefield. You can follow in our footsteps and survive and be happy.....or go on your own course, at your own risk.

[Dustin C 12]

I support my fiance with Aunt Jemima pancake mix and maple syrup. I got her addicted to that stuff when I brought it over on my visit. She doesn't ask for money, but asks for pancake mix. LOL

[K & S 0]

Again, I do appreciate the words of advice. I've spent most of my time lately thinking about this, and still I don't know for certain that she's a scammer. It is possible? Sure, but there's also a chance she's not. We've been communicating since Oct, she never once asked me for money, it was my offer. That's the truth. If that was a mistake, and now I think it was, then shame on me, and that's because it gives me reason to believe a scam is a possible scenario. Had I never offered and sent money, I would not have the insecure feeling of this possiblity. And also, I wasn't sending money steadily until after she accepted the ring and proposal.

It was not my intention to find a woman so young, quite the opposite. I was looking in the range of 30-40 from the beginning, and she just wrote and we started talking. I actually kept her at arms length for a while because i felt the age was too young. After talking by skype frequently and emailing daily, I found the age difference disappeared. After spending time with her, I felt we connected very well together. I saw right away, she wanted a man to take care of her, but it that really so wrong? She's struggled through her life and so she was looking to not struggle. If you saw a photo of us, or we walked past you, I don't think the age difference would stand out that much. Of course there's a difference, but I'm a somewhat young looking guy and she has an older look to her. In some ways, her maturity seems to match or exceed mine. The biggest difference is I'm skeptical from experience, and she doesn't understand it.

I can see her photos and I see the vacations she's been on and they were all before we started, so I know there's no one else.

I know everyone has an opinion, and I know that ultimately, I'll have to decide what to do. However, I genuinely do appreciate the words of wisdom. I realize love can be blind too.

My plan is to talk with her and stop the payments. We'll see how she reacts. My decision may be an easy one, or I may find out she's for real.