Supporting Fiancee'

[ONA 133]

In RUB countries women do make less and if she is not in a big city she will make still less. I would believe her if she claimed she could only pull in a couple hundred dollars a month if she lives in a small city/village, isn't particularly well connected, doesn't own any valuable property, and doesn't have any extraordinary skills. Depending on the local economy, it may be less. If she lives in a big city, it should be closer to $500.

I have never been to Ukraine, but, for comparison, there are people in eastern Siberia who are glad to pull in $200 a month. In Moscow, $500 is sort of a minimum for an entry level job. An experienced professional in Moscow could be making $1000 a month. More than that is doing well.

That's about right, although I think numbers should be higher for Moscow... $400-500 is how much an average university graduate is usually paid in my city. A lot depends on the occupation though. For example me and everybody I studied with can make enough money for living working as an English language tutor for 10 hours a week. Some language schools hire recent graduates and offer them good money for corporate language teaching. This way it is possible to make about $700-800 right after graduating from the university. At the same time those working as school teachers are going to make about $200 a month.

There are lots of other jobs and lots of other university majors. Every time the numbers will be different.

According to my friends from Ukraine (from Kiev mostly) the numbers are about the same.

Anyway, as a Russian woman I should say, I won't be comfortable living just on my fiance's money and not contributing anything. I've always thought that I should make at least some money myself.

Although, that doesn't necessarily mean that the OP's fiancee is a scammer. That just might be the way of life she used to (and probably is since she's been supported by her family and boyfriends since she was 15). The real question is whether the OP likes this family model or not.

[baron555 934]

I guess the only thing I can say to that is I really don't think she's scamming me, I've spent 2 seperate weeks together, talk often on skype and email daily and you can tell if someone loves you, or is using you. I think if anything, she believes that a man is supposed to support his woman financially. I'm fortunate that I can do it, but time will tell I guess. I have had to stop sending money a few times when I was unable too and she was fine with it. I'd feel better if she did work and I could help her out with some money.

Now that's a hard working woman! Congrats on your approval.

I don't really mean to insinuate that she's a scammer; time will tell on that.

But, if she's used to someone paying for her way, her entire life, then do you really think things will change here.

How's her English?

How do you feel about paying for everything once she is here?

Have you researched what type of job she will be able to find once she is here?

What about children in the future?

Sri for the 20 million questions, but as Slimbo has stated, you showed up unannounced and hit us with this "red flag" question.

It's just based on what we know and are experienced with. 46 year old man, meets 25 year old online, corresponds for three months, goes to visit twice for a week each, agrees to pursue the K-1 and he sends her living money weekly. Nice gig. Not saying anything; we hope she's a young hottie and you get all you are paying for....but sometimes once they come here, the wheels fall off (his) wagon.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

One of the dangers I see hear, a red flag if you will, is that you do not know what people generally earn in Ukraine. It is not much. Most are also paid monthly, not weekly. $300-500 is pretty normal.

If one is supporting his future wife, something I do not disagree with in itself, then you should be aware of what the money is used for, just as you would be if she were here. How much is her rent? Utilities? Food and clothing?

I am the money maker in our household and the bill payer, but I KNOW what the bills are and I know when they need to be paid. Shouldn't you? It is a good check and balance if nothing else and she should not object to diuscussing it IF she beieves in the man supporting the family.

Alla is a pretty traditional Ukrainian woman, probably considerably older than your fiancee (traditional Ukrainian women are harder to find among younger women) and she really doesn't want to think about paying bills and such, but do not think that she doesn't know anything about them, she knows ALL about them. She IS an adult and this IS a family. She knows what we spend on things, she just doesn't write the checks to pay the bills.

Maybe you have discussed this.

FWIW my wife REFUSED VEHEMENTLY to accept any money from me until we had the NOA2 and then only because we did a budget using BOTH our incomes and both our expenses and all the upcoming expenses of moving THREE people to the USA and I sent her money accordingly and not a penny more. She would not have it any other way. After all, what you don't send now will be here for her when she arrives! Alla mentioned that herself many times..."Don't send more, save it for when we arrive"

THAT is the ultimate sign of sincerity.

[Dustin C 12]

She said she had help from her parent and boyfriends. I'm wondering how much an educated woman can make on average/month there. Does anyone know?

My fiance in Odessa, Ukraine said she makes the equivalent to around $550 US Dollars per month. She lives with her grandma. I talked to her brother while I was visiting Odessa last month and he said the average income is around $300-$450 USD per month around the area. I sent my fiance $200 once to help out with her computer that was on the fritz (her webcam with messing up) and to buy some wine.

[K & S 0]

I'm new here so I'm not sure what the red flag question means or showing up unannounced means either, I hope I didn't step on any toes.

To answer your questions - I really don't mind if she didn't want to work, as long as she loves me, that's all fine by me. However she does want to work here, she's said so. Her English is excellent.

I haven't researched the job situation, because it's not something we really thought we would dive into right away. She's expressed that she wants children.

Look, I do appreciate the "words of warning", I totally get it. I know there's no guarantees, and I also know I'm cautious and do lots of thinking about my life and decisions I make. Maybe this seems like a quick decision from the outside, but it's been 8 months now, we have had some real serious discussions, talked about difference in age, and culture but there is a good connection we have between us. Sometimes if you go with your head, you'll punt every time. The wheels have come off plenty of times for me in past relationships with woman that live here, so we all know there's no guarantees in life. I didn't go out seeking a 25 yr old woman, I was looking more in the 35-40 range honestly. It just happened, she make me happy. I'm really not sure if I see it as I'm paying for a young hottie, you may not see her that way anyway. She's pretty ok to me. I don't think I even started my question in this direction, I was more curious about the interview process, but thanks anyway

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I guess the only thing I can say to that is I really don't think she's scamming me, I've spent 2 seperate weeks together, talk often on skype and email daily and you can tell if someone loves you, or is using you. I think if anything, she believes that a man is supposed to support his woman financially. I'm fortunate that I can do it, but time will tell I guess. I have had to stop sending money a few times when I was unable too and she was fine with it. I'd feel better if she did work and I could help her out with some money.

Now that's a hard working woman! Congrats on your approval.

Every gal is different but from what Iv'e learned most RUB gals are very independent/proud...with the exceptions of course...it's those gals that are the "exceptions" to the rule that I would be wary of. I just hope everything works out for you and you don't get burned. But if she has this attitude there, it's going to be even worse when she gets here.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Why_Me

[baron555 934]

How much are you sending in USD per week/month?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

How much are you sending in USD per week/month?

Even if he's only sending a $1 a month...this whole thing looks like a set up, and I think the OP's getting cooked (I hope I'm wrong). I met a few gals over there that were getting money from three different guys at once...one each from a different country...Italy, Germany, Spain, US, etc... They ended up with everything being paid for and then some. Mobile, apt/rent...you name it. And they even set it up so no two guys were in town at the same time. But it isn't even that, it's the fact she says she expects her spouse to pay. Guys pay money, I sent my wife money...but it was like pulling teeth in order for her to take it. It's the pride factor with the run of the mill RUB gal, and then again they have the exceptions. You read the scams going on in Philippine forums and it's amateur hour over there compared to what these RUB gals are capable of. Again it's a pride issue with most RUB gals and to find one that expects that money...man I don't have a good feeling on this one. I hope I'm wrong.

[baron555 934]

Even if he's only sending a $1 a month...this whole thing looks like a set up, and I think the OP's getting cooked (I hope I'm wrong). I met a few gals over there that were getting money from three different guys at once...one each from a different country...Italy, Germany, Spain, US, etc... They ended up with everything being paid for and then some. Mobile, apt/rent...you name it. And they even set it up so no two guys were in town at the same time. But it isn't even that, it's the fact she says she expects her spouse to pay. Guys pay money, I sent my wife money...but it was like pulling teeth in order for her to take it. It's the pride factor with the run of the mill RUB gal, and then again they have the exceptions. You read the scams going on in Philippine forums and it's amateur hour over there compared to what these RUB gals are capable of. Again it's a pride issue with most RUB gals and to find one that expects that money...man I don't have a good feeling on this one. I hope I'm wrong.

My wife was the same and would only accept gifts that were delivered as a surprise or money sent for visa-related costs or for money sent for new clothes for the little one.

I hope that the OP keeps us informed as to only update our collective database.

His story can end up a happy one or it can be like MCat's or like Merrilizer's or like another on a similar forum whose wife ended up being very high maintenance and now has "fled" back to the old country and won't return (with child). The OP does seem like he has not done a lot of research, scammer-wise.

How/Where online did you two meet?

[K & S 0]

We met on Elenas Models. I'll let you know how it turns out. I hope all with concerns are one day happy to hear a happy ending, I will be too.

[eekee 182]

I call BS on her not being able to find a job. She'd make less than you're sending her, and maybe outside of her speciality from university, but she could find one.

Frankly, if you look at the couples here who are the happiest, it tends to be the ones where the woman, like Gary mentioned, DIDN'T go into this expecting money every week (??!!), and came to the US and wanted to work and contribute to the household/pay for their own "fun" things, even if the husband pays for the bulk of the household expenses. These are women who wanted a husband/love/family, not an expense account.

She is NOT going to change when she gets to the US. If you can find a dude who is willing to pay for everything, why work? I mean, I honestly wouldn't accept such an offer, because I'm just not that type of woman. But for those who are... a leopard doesn't change its spots. This is how she's lived since was fifteen. If you want to support her for the rest of your life--or until you get divorced--more power to you. If not... well.

[SMR 368]

I don't want this to turn into some sort of argument but I feel like a lot of posts have been critical of the situation and there needs to be some balance.

Like I said, I really don't think there is much point for anyone but the OP to go down the road of "she's a scammer." Unless she starts doing things that have no other explanation, it's really just up to the judgment of the OP. Any advice any of us can give is judgments we made based on the information that the OP judged was germane which is a really error prone way to give advice.

Eekee, I realize that there are couples where the FSU spouse wants to work and does and the couple can be quite happy. But I wonder which couples you are referring to when you claim that couples where the FSU spouse doesn't work are less happy. Obviously, comparing happiness is a pointless pissing contest, especially over the internet. But I really can't think of any couples here who have expressed their own unhappiness with the exception of scammers (which I don't really count in this discussion per my above paragraph).

As far as the practicalities of a FSU wife working in the US, it's tough if you want to have kids as well. FSU work experience and education are valued much less here. So if you want the wife to get a job that will even cover the cost of daycare you need a specific plan (ie. a profession that she can verifiably perform and/or obtain a certification in). With one kid it's not so tough but once you have a couple the cost of daycare is very non-trivial.

In the end, it comes down to doing what will make you as a couple happiest. My wife could have worked (she was supporting herself when I met her) during our engagement. But I had invited her to come and see me for a couple months and she had quit her job to come (it wasn't a job she couldn't have replaced when she returned). As she waited for the visa when she was back in Russia, we figured she would rather spend her time taking some classes that she would enjoy (English, piano, floristry) and saying goodbyes to friends and family than finding another job to work long hours for a couple hundred dollars a month.

Here, my wife stays home with our son. It reduces the stress in our lives and the lost income isn't the end of the world.

Again, I'm not trying to argue about this but just saying to the OP that there are lots of different situations and you should do what will make you as a couple happiest. Sure, she may be a scammer. But nobody here can determine that. Use your best judgment.

[CharlesR 4]

Actually, I would prefer getting scammed up front rather then finding out 5 or 10 years later that we couldnt hold our marriage together. How many of us have been there?

Edited June 22, 2011 by CharlesR

[baron555 934]

Actually, I would prefer getting scammed up front rather then finding out 5 or 10 years later that we couldnt hold our marriage together. How many of us have been there?

There are a few "cardinal rules" that one should do or never do that would prevent a lot of the scamming.

Of course any relationship takes work but there are a few things that should be vetted out beforehand, yo prevent later scamming.

And then, some folks are just made yo be scammed.

[AmyWrites 593]

Again, I apologize for my pessimism about this, BUT:

- She speaks English excellently and can't find a job? BS.

- If she can't/won't find work there, don't expect her to find work in the US... her experience/education will be worth little

- You met on Elena's Models... isn't that one of the scammer filled sites? I didn't meet my SO there so maybe I'm wrong.

- RUB girls are proud and independent. Most won't want to be maintained like that. Of course, given the choice, very few women from any country would reject such a comfy life.

- You say you want to trust her; usually when people are saying that, it's because they feel somewhat forced into trusting because their gut is telling them something's wrong.

IMO, you've seen each other for very little time, and it's easy as heck to lie even through Skype. I'd arrange some more time together before jumping into the marriage.

Again this is all your choice, and you know the situation best. We're not trying to scare you off (especially from having a RUB partner!) but while the majority might be good, there are always bad apples and it's good to be well informed about them (and how they work, no pun intended) before making rash decisions.