"Gaza Island"

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Still in denial, I see.

Tell me, who did Hamas target again? Was there any military value in a school bus? Were there any Israeli soldiers using the kids on the bus as human shields?

Didn't think so. Hamas targeted the bus to kill school children, nothing more. No soldiers. No politicians. School children. And you're defending their actions. Hope you're happy.

One Israeli teenager died, days later from his injuries, and the driver suffered minor injuries. There was one minor on the bus, and one adult. In retaliation, as shown in the links you posted, up to twelve Palestinians were killed, and 30 more were injured, while Israeli jets attacked for three hours.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[Pooky 3,822]

One Israeli teenager died, and the driver suffered minor injuries. There was one minor on the bus, and one adult. In retaliation, as shown in the links you posted, up to twelve Palestinians were killed, and 30 more were injured, while Israeli jets attacked for three hours.

Still in denial, I see.

The difference is that Hamas intentionally targeted a school bus with children on board. Not a military target in any sense of the word. The terrorist launching the missile had no other intention than to kill school children.

The Israelis were indeed heavy-handed in their response, but at least they targeted known Hamas terrorists - targets with a military value. It doesn't excuse the civilian deaths that resulted, but the difference in intent is clear.

But you go on defending the terrorists and murderers that make up Hamas.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Still in denial, I see.

The difference is that Hamas intentionally targeted a school bus with children on board. Not a military target in any sense of the word. The terrorist launching the missile had no other intention than to kill school children.

The Israelis were indeed heavy-handed in their response, but at least they targeted known Hamas terrorists - targets with a military value. It doesn't excuse the civilian deaths that resulted, but the difference in intent is clear.

But you go on defending the terrorists and murderers that make up Hamas.

There was only two people on that bus, travelling on a military route, and being driven close enough to the border to be hit by a missile. Bad move on the part of those firing the missile, whether or not that was the intention, "To kill school children." And, stupidity on the part of security forces that allowed that bus to become a target.

But, you are given the hand you are dealt, and if you keeping beating an animal, it may turn and bite anyone it can reach. War is not a pretty thing, and neither is occupying land that is not yours.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

When did the Palestinians control a State of Palestine?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Two questions.

1. Does the Gaza rocket fire do anything positive for Palestine.

2. Would the 1400 who died during the Gaza attack still have died if no rockets were fired?

bump

[Zero Sum 305]

When did the Palestinians control a State of Palestine?

When did Native Americans have a recognized Nation of Native Americans? Same deal. Not defending the terrorists or the terrorists... but both sides need to quit their crazy bombings, terrorist instigation and suspicious overreactions included. Sometimes it seems both extremes are working together to keep the region in turmoil. If there aren't enough peacemakers in Israel/Palestine (and there are, IMO), the world would be better off if someone detonated all of Israel's unofficial nuclear stockpile.

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

the world would be better off if someone detonated all of Israel's unofficial nuclear stockpile.

where?

[Zero Sum 305]

where?

unofficially, there.

[Pooky 3,822]

There was only two people on that bus, travelling on a military route, and being driven close enough to the border to be hit by a missile. Bad move on the part of those firing the missile, whether or not that was the intention, "To kill school children." And, stupidity on the part of security forces that allowed that bus to become a target.

You're seriously trying to explain away cold-blooded murder? You're doubting that the school bus was the intended target? Maybe you missed the part where the terrorists waited around to ambush the paramedics who arrived to render assistance.

Hamas had no other intention than murder and you want to try and justify it as the fault of the Israeli security forces. Unbelievable.

[mawilson 2,133]

When did the Palestinians control a State of Palestine?

There was never a "Palestinian state".

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

There was never a "Palestinian state".

I thought it was called Jordan.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Comparing Israeli/Palestinean situation to Native American conquest is easy from a superficial view but roughly as accurate as the comparison to SA apartheid. All three were very different situations.

So many crappy things have been done by both sides of the IsraeliPalestinian conflict at this point though it is difficult to understand how either side can claim pure innocent victimization.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Two questions.

1. Does the Gaza rocket fire do anything positive for Palestine.

2. Would the 1400 who died during the Gaza attack still have died if no rockets were fired?

#1. Are you asking me if I personally approve of this tactic? No, I would probably prefer other methods of resistance. If you are asking what it represents from the militants' point of view, well the rockets are basically their attempts to show that they're doing something to fight the occupation - it's a message both to Israel and to their own people.

#2. Might as well ask would the 1400 still have died if Israel would have abided by its obligations under international law and ended its occupation at any point over the last 44 years.

Or you could ask if they would have died in Cast Lead if Zionist gangs and Israeli soldiers hadn't driven their families out of their homes before and during and after the establishment of the state of Israel, instead of being turned into destitute refugees in Gaza (cuz btw, that's how 90% of the people of Gaza ended up there.)

Point being: History didn’t begin the day a rocket landed in Israel.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

A lie Hamas can't hide behind any longer

First of all, Hamas is not the one who said their rockets are crude and homemade. I am. I am not Hamas. Try to get a grip.

By Israel’s own count, about 98% of what it estimates as some 9000 “projectiles” fired from Gaza since 2000 have been either mortar shells or rockets of the Qassam variety - which are as I described. A very small percentage have been Grad rockets and a few other higher-tech weapons - however they are becoming more common, especially this past year. Still, since 2000, the total number of Israeli deaths from Gaza projectiles has been 28 - that's 2-3 per year on average. Death by projectile is horrible, but even Israeli army officials have said they're "more a psychological than a physical threat."

Anyway, it’s not really surprising that both sides will continue to seek better weapons. Israel escalates its military actions, and the militants escalate in return.

The only way out of the conflict is through actual diplomacy and peace negotiations in accordance with international law.

Levelling the playing field brings with it the accusation of attempted cold blooded murder.

I don't understand what you mean by "leveling the playing field." Are you attempting to suggest that Palestinian militants are by any stretch of the imagination a military equivalent to the IDF ?

Remember, this is a laser-guided anti-tank weapon, being used to attack a school bus. There was no military value in the target, just a bus, with children on board. And you wonder why there have been few, if any, stories of rocket attacks since in the media here.

The IDF are rightly criticised for the civilian casualties caused when they use a sledgehammer to try and take out a "noted" Hamas militant. Hamas didn't even pretend to attack a military target. Another couple of these and sympathy for the Palestinian struggle in the West will evaporate. The West likes a cause to support. Murder is not a cause.

Hamas stated it launched at that road because it was often used by IDF military vehicles. Sounds a lot like what the IDF says after it bombs a Palestinian school or a family picnicking on the beach, doesn’t it ?

The killing of children is horrific. You seem to be very upset that an Israeli child would get hit. Well consider that Israel kills Palestinian children on a regular basis - more than 750 Palestinian kids have been killed by Israeli soldiers and settlers over the past 6 years - what about them ? Israel slaughtered more than 350 Palestinian kids during the 3-week Cast Lead assault alone, dropping missiles on apartment buildings, bombing 7 schools into smithereens, damaging 135 more, and launching several devastating strikes outside schools just as they were releasing students. Israel also targeted hospitals, medical clinics and Red Crescent warehouses, as well as every police station - killing over 250 civilian Palestinian policemen.

All of these are war crimes, and on a much vaster scale than Palestinian militants ever managed to do.

“Glass houses”

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I look at their points of view as having an element of balance to them. Yours has none. You attribute no responsibility for the conflict to the Palestinians, or the surrounding Arab nations. You do not believe they should make any movement toward compromise, only the Israelis.

That view shows no tolerance whatsoever. Therefore I don't believe it to be reasonable and can't support it.

You and your fellow idealogues posted a bunch of long-outdated Zionist myths, distortions, half-truths and outright falsehoods about the conflict - propaganda that went stale at least 15 years ago after being debunked by reputable historians all over the world, including in Israel. I went through each one and cited the actual historical record - which is easily confirmed from 'most any encyclopedia.

When confronted with facts, not one of you even acknowledged that you posted erroneous information, but instead, you just move on to the next Zio talking point.

What I have no tolerance for is misinformation. Zionist fairy tales are not some kind of “alternative narrative” that must be politely accepted as a meaningful part of any real discussion. The historical facts are easily confirmed and well-known to any serious student of the conflict, and it doesn’t make me “unreasonable” or "intolerant" to point them out.