"Gaza Island"

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Not a single country that matters.

International recognition for the State of Palestine:

And getting greener all the time...

Edited July 11, 2011 by wife_of_mahmoud

[mawilson 2,133]

International recognition for the State of Palestine:

And getting greener all the time...

Like I said... no-one that matters.

[Golden Gate 530]

Like I said... no-one that matters.

Wow. That strikes me as very arrogant.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Wow. That strikes me as very arrogant.

It's very British.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I don't know why you keep trying to argue that the Zionist project to establish a Jewish state in Palestine cannot be considered "colonialism" until after 1967. The Zionists themselves (as well as the British and other European powers) used that very term to refer to their activities in Palestine - not only pre-1967, but long before 1948:

* The Jewish Colonization Commission (established 1891) - this funded colonies in Palestine as well as other countries

* The Jewish Colonial Trust (among the very first institutions created by the World Zionist Congress, established in 1898 at the Second Jewish Congress in Basle.)

* Palestine Jewish Colonization Association (established 1923 to concentrate on Palestine)

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4282496

* Agricultural Colonies in Palestine

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=907&letter=A

There are many many more historical references to it.

People throw labels on things all the time, that doesn't make them accurate.

colony:

a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.

In this case there is no parent country.

Imagine if Jewish forces hadn't aligned with Britain during WW1 and after. In all likelyhood the entire area including modern day Jordan would probably be a single nation.

[웃 910]

Wow. That strikes me as very arrogant.

It's hilarious!

And I hate to say it, but VERY TRUE!!!!

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Be that as it may, the Palestinian "plight" is their casus belli.

It's not like they're human or anything, there's no suffering here, let's just call them untermensch to clear things up.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

It's very British.

New Age Orientalism....CATCH IT!!!!!

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

People throw labels on things all the time, that doesn't make them accurate.

colony:

a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.

In this case there is no parent country.

Imagine if Jewish forces hadn't aligned with Britain during WW1 and after. In all likelyhood the entire area including modern day Jordan would probably be a single nation.

An interesting take on history. Maybe I missed something, where was T.E. Lawrence in all this?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

People throw labels on things all the time, that doesn't make them accurate.

colony:

a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.

In this case there is no parent country.

Imagine if Jewish forces hadn't aligned with Britain during WW1 and after. In all likelyhood the entire area including modern day Jordan would probably be a single nation.

You can selectively choose one very narrow definition out of a dozen different meanings of the word “colony” and pretend the others don’t exist. However, there are different forms of colonialism, and Zionism is one of them.

You can also try to claim that the Zionist leaders had no idea what they were talking about when they spoke of a Zionist colonial enterprise.

Of course these days, it's no longer fashionable to style oneself as a colonialist or an imperialist. But in understanding the birth of Zionism, you have to understand the context of what was going on in the world at the time, and the political ideologies that were popular. The late 1800s was a golden age for colonialism - the “Scramble for Africa” was at its height. Zionist leaders (all European) understood very well what colonialism was when they openly proclaimed that Zionism was a colonial enterprise - to establish Jewish colonies in a foreign land and to ultimately seize control of the territory.

Although they lacked a “home base” state like the other European colonialists, the Zionists very much viewed themselves as the official representatives of the Jewish people, which they saw as a distinct nation with the right to territory of their own. And so the Zionists began to behave politically as a nation.

They organized a "quasi-state" - a governmental apparatus called the World Zionist Organization - and set up a Congress, a General Council and a Central Executive. This organization also coordinated the Zionists' diplomatic efforts to approach various foreign countries to try to enlist their support for achieving their goal, and finally secured the sponsorship of Great Britain.

The Zionists considered a number of different potential locations for their endeavor before agreeing on Palestine. But even before making their final decision, they had already developed their basic plan: they would organize funding and support for a mass colonization of this territory, claim it as their own Jewish state, and (as "needed") ethnically cleanse any native populations to ensure a Jewish majority.

So instead of being an outpost of a foreign power, this colony would itself become the “home base.” The Jewish State would actually have to be fulfilled through colonialism.

[Golden Gate 530]

It's hilarious!

And I hate to say it, but VERY TRUE!!!!

I'm sorry. What is hilarious?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You can selectively choose one very narrow definition out of a dozen different meanings of the word “colony” and pretend the others don’t exist. However, there are different forms of colonialism, and Zionism is one of them.

You can also try to claim that the Zionist leaders had no idea what they were talking about when they spoke of a Zionist colonial enterprise.

Of course these days, it's no longer fashionable to style oneself as a colonialist or an imperialist. But in understanding the birth of Zionism, you have to understand the context of what was going on in the world at the time, and the political ideologies that were popular. The late 1800s was a golden age for colonialism - the “Scramble for Africa” was at its height. Zionist leaders (all European) understood very well what colonialism was when they openly proclaimed that Zionism was a colonial enterprise - to establish Jewish colonies in a foreign land and to ultimately seize control of the territory.

Although they lacked a “home base” state like the other European colonialists, the Zionists very much viewed themselves as the official representatives of the Jewish people, which they saw as a distinct nation with the right to territory of their own. And so the Zionists began to behave politically as a nation.

They organized a "quasi-state" - a governmental apparatus called the World Zionist Organization - and set up a Congress, a General Council and a Central Executive. This organization also coordinated the Zionists' diplomatic efforts to approach various foreign countries to try to enlist their support for achieving their goal, and finally secured the sponsorship of Great Britain.

The Zionists considered a number of different potential locations for their endeavor before agreeing on Palestine. But even before making their final decision, they had already developed their basic plan: they would organize funding and support for a mass colonization of this territory, claim it as their own Jewish state, and (as "needed") ethnically cleanse any native populations to ensure a Jewish majority.

So instead of being an outpost of a foreign power, this colony would itself become the “home base.” The Jewish State would actually have to be fulfilled through colonialism.

Okay, but again your not describing colonization. The fundamental purpose of a colony is to supply raw materials for the parent country. Secondly, the colony becomes a secondary market for the home country. All in all the role of the colony is to enrich the parent country. There has to be a relationship there.

Trying to build a whole new nation is not the same as creating a colony.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

An interesting take on history. Maybe I missed something, where was T.E. Lawrence in all this?

Its just a subtle thing. You are right that the Arab revolt did more in the scheme of things during the first world war. I'm just pointing out that this was the first point when Jews began to favor working with the British, it becomes a much bigger driving force in the 1930s and 40s...you could call it the seed of things to come.

My understanding is that it could have been very easy for the people (Jewish) to reject Britain at this time. Long story short many Jews especially in Russia saw Germany as an ally and therefore by association perhaps the Ottomans. If they had fought on the wrong side I don't think there would be an Israel.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Okay, but again your not describing colonization. The fundamental purpose of a colony is to supply raw materials for the parent country. Secondly, the colony becomes a secondary market for the home country. All in all the role of the colony is to enrich the parent country. There has to be a relationship there.

Trying to build a whole new nation is not the same as creating a colony.

As I said, there are different types of colonialism. You are fixating on a specific model; however in practice, there are many variations.

Palestine is an example of "settler colonialism." The fundamental purpose of Zionist colonization was to create the "home country," and the raw material it supplied was land.

Settler colonialism

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Its just a subtle thing. You are right that the Arab revolt did more in the scheme of things during the first world war. I'm just pointing out that this was the first point when Jews began to favor working with the British, it becomes a much bigger driving force in the 1930s and 40s...you could call it the seed of things to come.

My understanding is that it could have been very easy for the people (Jewish) to reject Britain at this time. Long story short many Jews especially in Russia saw Germany as an ally and therefore by association perhaps the Ottomans. If they had fought on the wrong side I don't think there would be an Israel.

Actually, Great Britain was the Zionists' third choice - they'd already tried to cut a deal for Palestine with the Ottoman Empire as early as 1896, and then Imperial Germany in the early 20th century, but gotten nowhere. So they decided to offer their assistance to Great Britain in overthrowing the Ottomans - in exchange for promises of Palestine (of course, Great Britain had already promised the Arabs their independence in return for their help against the Ottomans.)