"Gaza Island"

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

[Karee 4,190]

Good point. You just never can tell what a Canadian is, most CIA operatives have Canuckistani passports just in case and of course this...

My link

Mossad, the Israeli spy agency, has been hit with new allegations that its agents use Canadian passports to conduct foreign covert operations.

The allegations surfaced yesterday in a courtroom in Auckland, New Zealand.

The court heard that one of two men charged with participating in an organized crime group to obtain a false passport had earlier travelled into the country with a Canadian passport.

Urie Zoshe Kelman, 30, entered the country with Canadian documentation five years ago, on Feb. 2, 1999, the court heard. His stay lasted eight weeks and he left the country, headed for Melbourne, Australia, using a temporary replacement Canadian passport obtained while in New Zealand.

Senior government officials in New Zealand have told reporters there that Mr. Kelman and Eli Cara, his 50-year-old co-accused, are agents of Mossad, the Israeli foreign spy service.

"We're aware of the allegations, or the alleged information, that surfaced in the court case in New Zealand. Nothing else can be added at this time," said Reynald Doiron, a spokesman with Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs.

While the Canadian government is keeping a close eye on the Auckland court case -- it learned of the developments just two days ago -- there has been no official communication with the Israeli government.

Similar allegations have caused serious diplomatic problems in the past. In 1997, Canada pulled its ambassador from Israel after two Mossad agents were caught using Canadian passports during a failed assassination attempt on Khalid Mashaal -- a leading Hamas official -- in Jordan.

Israel assured Canada then that Canadian passports would no longer be used for covert purposes.

However, the National Post reported in 2002 that an informant had supplied information to Israeli agents posing as Canadians while on a mission to locate a senior Hamas leader in Gaza. Militant Palestinian leader Salah Shehadeh was later assassinated by Israeli forces in a July 23 missile attack that also killed 14 others, including nine children.

The informant claimed he was recruited by three agents who said they were Canadians and took him to the Canadian embassy in Tel Aviv before coercing him with promises of travel to Canada and threats to distribute fake photos showing him in sexual encounters.

"Mossad is, by tradition and culture, a rather singularly ruthless intelligence organization," said intelligence expert Wesley Wark, a professor at the University of Toronto. "It is one that sees its role as defending the survival of Israel. From conversations I've had with people in that world, it does take that mission very seriously. And Mossad, unlike some other Western intelligence agencies, is relatively unshackled by internal bureaucratic controls or Israeli legal restraint."

Mr. Doiron said it is too early to tell whether the co-accused in this case are linked to Mossad. "We cannot conclude that at this time," he said.

In fact, the passport numbers that have surfaced in court do not, at first glance, appear to be authentic. Mr. Kelman flew to Auckland from Los Angeles on Qantas Flight QF101 using Canadian passport CA PC 038241. He left March 30, 1999, flying to Melbourne, Australia on Qantas Flight QF36 with a replacement passport bearing the same number.

Authentic Canadian passports have only two letters -- signifying the year the document was issued -- and six letters.

A source said it would be surprising if Israel's meticulous intelligence agency had in fact botched a passport forgery.

Contacted by the Post yesterday, Ofir Gendelman, second secretary with the Israeli mission in Ottawa, said he was aware of the court case, but unfamiliar with the allegations one of the men had used a Canadian passport.

"That's news to me," he said. Mr. Gendelman refused to comment on how an apparently bogus Canadian passport came to be in the possession of an Israeli citizen. He would not answer charges that the men were Mossad operatives.

"We know nothing about it," he said.

Mr. Wark said Mossad has used Canadian passports in the past to avoid suspicion when travelling the world, particularly the Middle East.

"While we have a history of pretty high level of negotiations and very strong condemnations [from the Canadian government] in exchanges with the Israelis requiring them to stop this practice, there's no sign that those demarches have ever really had a serious effect," he said. "If it's an operational necessity they'll use it."

The alleged criminal enterprise to obtain New Zealand passports was discovered -- and charges laid against Mr. Kelman and Mr. Cara -- after Zev William Barkan, who is travelling on a U.S. passport, used the name of a man with cerebral palsy to obtain a passport. A customs investigator noticed an irregularity with the application and telephoned the applicant.

He said he was suspicious because the person had "a Canadian or American accent" according to the New Zealand Herald. Police launched an investigation, which resulted in the March 20 arrest of the two men and subsequent charges. Unusually, the case has been fast-tracked into court.

Mr. Barkan has gone missing but police allege surveillance operations linked him to Mr. Cara and Mr. Kelman.

It remains unknown why the men were in the country.

© National Post 2004

I was actually in Auckland when this happened in 2004. The PM then (Helen something or other I think) It was big news there. The govt. at the time seemed to not want any part of it. They arrested them for the passport fraud. Not sure if they ever cut them loose.

The telecom guys I worked with were all ex military there.

They mostly yacked about the French coming to get back their imprisoned nuclear protesters. They had to go on high alert when they were 18 YO. I forget the exact reason. I'm sure some kiwi will fill in the blanks. I think it had something to do with a ship getting blown up by French commandos.

Sorry, too lazy to look it up. NZ is cool though. They had, (maybe still do) a place called the White House. Upstairs a topless place. Downstairs a brothel with a picture of Monica Lewinsky with skinned knees. I laughed for a month after seeing that picture.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Then consider that in a period of less than 2 years, Zionist terror gangs and militias and later the State of Israel managed to drive 75% of the indigenous Palestinian population out of what is now the State of Israel. So they didn't "suck" at ethnic cleansing at all; they were quite effective at it.

Is that what they call civil wars these days....back in my day....

There were gangs on both sides...

Edited July 9, 2011 by Sousuke

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Then consider that in a period of less than 2 years, Zionist terror gangs and militias and later the State of Israel managed to drive 75% of the indigenous Palestinian population out of what is now the State of Israel. So they didn't "suck" at ethnic cleansing at all; they were quite effective at it.

Seriously, I compared the "zionists" ...putting things in quotes seems to be hip on VJ these days...to Hitler in regards to ethnic cleansing. If the zionists were to the level of him, you'd be dead my dear....or likely never born.

I understand people have been displace but they are still in Palestine.

[Karee 4,190]

Seriously, I compared the "zionists" ...putting things in quotes seems to be hip on VJ these days...to Hitler in regards to ethnic cleansing. If the zionists were to the level of him, you'd be dead my dear....or likely never born.

I understand people have been displace but they are still in Palestine.

Really? Why does Jordan and Lebanon have a substantial Palestinian population?

Wikipedia is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Seriously, I compared the "zionists" ...putting things in quotes seems to be hip on VJ these days...to Hitler in regards to ethnic cleansing. If the zionists were to the level of him, you'd be dead my dear....or likely never born.

I understand people have been displace but they are still in Palestine.

I see "Hitler" on this thread over and over like he was the first to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing and that the Jews learned it from him.

Not hardly. They mastered it along with the Russians aka Bolsheviks before Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

"Holodomor"

[Karee 4,190]

I see "Hitler" on this thread over and over like he was the first to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing and that the Jews learned it from him.

Not hardly. They mastered it along with the Russians aka Bolsheviks before Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

"Holodomor"

Yeah they all did it in the old days. The Israeli govt. does it now. With $3B USD to back it up. I find it ironic that we bomb Libya.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Really? Why does Jordan and Lebanon have a substantial Palestinian population?

Wikipedia is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee

So who is in the West bank? Aliens!

Anyway, My original point has been lost now that I'm not pro-palestine enough apparently....and i'm getting bashed for it.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Sousuke

[Karee 4,190]

So who is in the West bank? Aliens!

Anyway, My original point has been lost now that I'm not pro-palestine enough apparently....and i'm getting bashed for it.

Take a pill. I'm just saying the vast majority are sitting in a tent somewhere while Bibi plots their demise.

Let's say you lived in E. Jerusalem, and the govt. said thats my house now. Move the #### out and find somewhere else to live live. You cool with that?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Take a pill. I'm just saying the vast majority are sitting in a tent somewhere while Bibi plots their demise.

Let's say you lived in E. Jerusalem, and the govt. said thats my house now. Move the #### out and find somewhere else to live live. You cool with that?

Of course not. I'm not sure I've actually said anything to the contrary.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Sousuke

[Karee 4,190]

I picked a random country.

Benin has 9.05M people

Israel has 7.7M people

Why don't we worry about Benin?

I'm sure Burkina Faso and Togo have their sights set on that land.

All they need is a bunch of lobbyists in Washington to make it happen.

The point is this goes on and on and on.

what next?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Is that what they call civil wars these days....back in my day....

There were gangs on both sides...

When a group of people from one territory establish colonies in a another territory, and then claim sovereignty over those colonies, it’s called colonialism, not civil war.

And when one ethnic group uses violence and terror to drive another ethnic group out of a region, it’s called ethnic cleansing.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

When a group of people from one territory establish colonies in a another territory, and then claim sovereignty over those colonies, it’s called colonialism, not civil war.

And when one ethnic group uses violence and terror to drive another ethnic group out of a region, it’s called ethnic cleansing.

Your definitions don't apply here.

First colonialism requires two territories with one territory remaining the sovereign of another. Where is the second territory? You can't say "Europe" is the sovereign of Israel. Are you referring to the current situation in the west bank? Ok in that way I can see that as colonialism, but not the initial conflict.

Historically, it was called a civil war. When the British Mandate ended there was a power vaccuum in which both communities fought an open war. By the end, yes 700,000 Arabs were displaced and about 1 million Jews were displaced from surrounding arab countries. However, because the violence was mutual its hard to fit what occurred between 1947-1967 as ethnic cleansing.

Maybe I'm looking more at the past and you the present....and thats why we aren't connecting.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Sousuke

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Seriously, I compared the "zionists" ...putting things in quotes seems to be hip on VJ these days...to Hitler in regards to ethnic cleansing. If the zionists were to the level of him, you'd be dead my dear....or likely never born.

I don’t understand why anyone would put Zionists in quote marks, as if it’s some kind of pejorative or misused/incorrect term. It’s what believers in the ideology called themselves then, and still do.

As for the comparisons to Hitler or the Nazis - well, genocide and ethnic cleansing are not the same thing, although the Nazis conducted both. I don't believe that a Palestinian genocide occurred, or that the Zionists specifically intended one. Their goal was to clear as many Palestinians out of as much of Palestine as they could, as easily as quickly as they could. The campaign of violence and terror they orchestrated against the civilian population was specifically intended to impel them to flee for safety.

Of course the Zionists had no regard for the Palestinian way of life and culture that they were destroying, or for the fate of the people they were scattering to the winds. So maybe one could make an argument that the Palestinians were being exterminated from Palestine.

But ethnic cleansing most certainly occurred - and it was planned well in advance. Since the earliest years of the Zionist movement, their leaders had been discussing the "need" to Judaize the new Jewish homeland, and they very clearly intended to just get rid of any indigenous population that might stand in their way:

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries whilst denying it any employment in our own country"

-

Theodore Herzl, June 12, 1895

(Note: this was even before the Zionists had agreed on the final location for the Jewish State - but they were already talking about ethnically cleansing it, where ever it might be)

"There is Transjordan, in it is available space. It is possible to transfer there the Arabs from Palestine"

- David Ben Gurion, June 24, 1930

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement]... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it."

- David Ben Gurion, at a joint meeting between the Jewish Agency Executive and Zionist Action Committee, June 12th, 1938

"...the transfer of the Arab population from the area of the Jewish State does not serve only one aim - to diminish the Arab population; it also serves a second, no less important aim which is to evacuate land presently held and cultivated by the Arabs and thus to release it for the Jewish inhabitants."

- Yosef Weitz, director of the Jewish National Fund's Land Department and head of the Jewish Agency Population Transfer Committee, 1938

"Zionism is a transfer of the Jews. Regarding the tranfers of the [Palestinian] Arabs this is much easier than any other transfer. There are Arab states in the vicinity... and it is clear that if the [Palestinian] Arabs are removed [to these states] this will improve their condition and not the contrary."

-David Ben Gurion, 1944

"…must direct our war towards the removal of as many Arabs as possible from the boundaries of our state. The guarding of their property after their removal is a secondary question.... I made a summary of a list of the Arab villages which in my opinion must be cleared out in order to complete Jewish regions."

- Yosef Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency Population Transfer Committee, 1948

They even discussed exactly how many Palestinians they'd "need" to drive out:

"In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment will be about one million, including almost 40% non-Jews. Such a composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority... There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60%."

- David Ben Gurion, in a speech addressing the Central Committee of the Histadrut, December 30, 1947

I understand people have been displace but they are still in Palestine.

You know, you can easily look this stuff up before you press the send button.

The world's Palestinian population totals about 11 million. Less than half of them are still living in historic Palestine - 3.9 million in the West Bank and Gaza, and another 1.2 million remaining in Israel.

There are about 5 million Palestinian refugees, and less than half of them remain in historic Palestine. There are 2 million refugees in the West Bank and Gaza. Another 2 million are in Jordan, almost half a million are in Syria, and 425,000 are in Lebanon.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

So who is in the West bank? Aliens!

Right now about 2.6 million Palestinians and just over half a million illegal Israeli settlers.

Anyway, My original point has been lost now that I'm not pro-palestine enough apparently....and i'm getting bashed for it.

Just take a few minutes to fact-check your posts before hitting the send button and you should be good to go !