... and a new RWN hero emerges. "Speak English, muthafuka!"

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

His choices and his life.

Furthermore, you're not paying attention- he did say he spoke English. Just not too well. And in that 'not too well' group fall quite a lot of people, many I am sure having been here for that long if not longer. You may call it an excuse, others will call it reality and circumstance. The black and white routine won't work with everything.

I'm not the one presenting a black and white routine here. He could have entered the shades of grey by addressing an American legislative body in less than perfect English. That would have been in-between black (not addressing the body in English) and white (addressing the body in perfect English). This is one of the biggest obstacles for Hispanic immigrants and their children - the refusal to assimilate and integrate from a language point of view. No other group of immigrants has that issue. Now, you can pretend that that's not true but deep down you know that it is.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I sure hope though that people keep up with the whole thread before kneejerking.

What kneejerking? Why does one group of immigrants feel as if it's on the host country to accommodate their language rather than doing what all other groups of immigrants do - learn the language of their chosen country in order to integrate? The only kneejerking I can detect here is that of those that appear to feel that it's just too much to ask that immigrants communicate in their host-country's mainstream language.

[Zero Sum 305]

I don't. Kneejerks make it more funner.

Yeah I wish we could do sound effects every time that happened.

[Zero Sum 305]

I'm not the one presenting a black and white routine here. He could have entered the shades of grey by addressing an American legislative body in less than perfect English. That would have been in-between black (not addressing the body in English) and white (addressing the body in perfect English). This is one of the biggest obstacles for Hispanic immigrants and their children - the refusal to assimilate and integrate from a language point of view. No other group of immigrants has that issue. Now, you can pretend that that's not true but deep down you know that it is.

Try the video again man. He used a translator.

As you can also notice in post #5, I pretty much agree, its been a long time. A better speaker would have been a much better idea. But who am I, you, or anyone such as a douchebag Senator ranting about his background (quite beyond the scope of what he was trying to testify on) to judge on the specifics of the case when we only have a < 3 min clip to assess when the whole point of feeling insulted is the issue of this having been in Spanish.

What kneejerking? Why does one group of immigrants feel as if it's on the host country to accommodate their language rather than doing what all other groups of immigrants do - learn the language of their chosen country in order to integrate? The only kneejerking I can detect here is that of those that appear to feel that it's just too much to ask that immigrants communicate in their host-country's mainstream language.

Its a kneejerk when you base all that grand assumption from a < 3 min clip and the communication choices of one person. But I do wish you could specify who these people are that feel "that it's just too much to ask that immigrants communicate in their host-country's mainstream language"...

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Try the video again man. He used a translator.

As you can also notice in post #5, I pretty much agree, its been a long time. A better speaker would have been a much better idea. But who am I, you, or anyone such as a douchebag Senator ranting about his background (quite beyond the scope of what he was trying to testify on) to judge on the specifics of the case when we only have a < 3 min clip to assess when the whole point of feeling insulted is the issue of this having been in Spanish.

I saw the clip. And I don't buy into the idea that there is any legitimate reason for an immigrant that has lived here for 23 years and has immigrated somewhere in his 20's needs a translator to address a legislative body. Is this the best the Hispanic community can do? Do they not have integrated and assimilated members that can make the case on their behalf? What message does that send?

[Zero Sum 305]

I saw the clip. And I don't buy into the idea that there is any legitimate reason for an immigrant that has lived here for 23 years and has immigrated somewhere in his 20's needs a translator to address a legislative body. Is this the best the Hispanic community can do? Do they not have integrated and assimilated members that can make the case on their behalf? What message does that send?

I completely sympathize with the message you're trying to share- believe me... and I stated so otherwise already... but...

Again, you are basing all these things, an entire Hispanic community, a whole immigrant group... etc... on this?

Take a step back and breathe and think how close to Teanutter your logic is flowing there, not you man, not you!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Its a kneejerk when you base all that grand assumption from a < 3 min clip and the communication choices of one person. But I do wish you could specify who these people are that feel "that it's just too much to ask that immigrants communicate in their host-country's mainstream language"...

That "one person" was not there on his own behalf - he represented a community. Let's not pretend otherwise.

[Zero Sum 305]

That "one person" was not there on his own behalf - he represented a community. Let's not pretend otherwise.

An organization. We're not pretending anything. Lets be exact.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Again, you are basing all these things, an entire Hispanic community, a whole immigrant group... etc... on this?

No, I don't. I base that on my everyday experience living here in sunny Florida and consuming the news out of our local newspaper - the left leaning St. Pete Times - which raises this issue time and again. And it's not a Teanutter publication or has any kind of an anti-immigrant agenda. Quite the opposite. They do see this lack of integration and the hardships it places on both the children of these immigrants and the public school system quite clearly, though. There's no denying it. Might be different where you reside but down here, oh well...

An organization. We're not pretending anything. Lets be exact.

[Zero Sum 305]

No, I don't. I base that on my everyday experience living here in sunny Florida and consuming the news out of our local newspaper - the left leaning St. Pete Times - which raises this issue time and again. And it's not a Teanutter publication or has any kind of an anti-immigrant agenda. Quite the opposite. They do see this lack of integration and the hardships it places on both the children of these immigrants and the public school system quite clearly, though. There's no denying it. Might be different where you reside but down here, oh well...

The kids integrate better than the parents- they get exposed to English a lot more than mamá and papá. Again, not everyone integrates as smoothly as say, you, or your wife. All I've been trying to say. Some people will need interpreters. I am all for better education and integration into the mainstream.

Maybe that's what this guy was ironically trying to speak out for in this testimony, and remember what anti-immigrant, anti-education laws do and where they come from.

(to the pic)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The kids integrate better than the parents- they get exposed to English a lot more than mamá and papá. Again, not everyone integrates as smoothly as say, you, or your wife. All I've been trying to say. Some people will need interpreters. I am all for better education and integration into the mainstream.

Maybe that's what this guy was ironically trying to speak out for in this testimony, and remember what anti-immigrant, anti-education laws do and where they come from.

If he needs an interpreter to put into English what he can best express in Spanish, then he should have had his prepared remarks translated prior to reading it to the legislator. That would have been appropriate and nothing would have been "lost in translation". You gotta mind your audience and consider how your decision to address the legislative body in a language other than their own will be interpreted. His testimony was rendered less valuable than it could have been. That much seems clear.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Zero Sum 305]

If he needs an interpreter to put into English what he can best express in Spanish, then he should have had his prepared remarks translated prior to reading it to the legislator. That would have been appropriate and nothing would have been "lost in translation". You gotta mind your audience and consider how your decision to address the legislative body in a language other than their own will be interpreted. His testimony was rendered less valuable than it could have been. That much seems clear.

I agree 100% with what you're saying here, as I've said all along.

My focus was on the douchebag senator that got angry over something he could have articulated in a more civil tone. It made me speculate as to his true feelings.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I agree 100% with what you're saying here, as I've said all along.

My focus was on the douchebag senator that got angry over something he could have articulated in a more civil tone. It made me speculate as to his true feelings.

As I said, you gotta mind your audience. The nature of the bill in question clearly suggests that some hostilities exist within that body. If your goal is to weaken the support for that bill, why would you want to throw oil onto those flames? Bad strategery as they would say in Texas.

[Zero Sum 305]

As I said, you gotta mind your audience. The nature of the bill in question clearly suggests that some hostilities exist within that body. If your goal is to weaken the support for that bill, why would you want to throw oil onto those flames? Bad strategery as they would say in Texas.

Well said. Or, perhaps in the right audiences, such an outburst can be seen as an obvious example of intolerance to integration, as twisted as the logic sounds.

[Robert&Liliya 31]

I am from Texas and I speak the English language with a fairly high degree of proficiency. I also speak some French, German and Spanish. I am currently working on my Russian. I was in the 9th stanine on my achievement tests all through school. I scored in the top 1% in the nation on the armed services exam and number 1 in my school all while being educated in Texas. I am not an exception to the rule. I did not study like crazy. I was not class Valedictorian or Salutatorian. People judge you if you come from a Southern State and have a Southern accent as less intelligent but this is baseless. It also shows the superiority complex that causes Texans to think they should not be a part of a country that thinks California is a model state. Most children in Texas schools are victims of overcrowded schools. We have a Very high level of illegal immigrants whose children are filling these schools to the bursting point. The fact that people refuse to take the time to learn English is also a huge problem with teaching. Teachers have to teach at the lowest common denominator. Children who speak English will have less issues with the course work. Children who struggle with English will also struggle with the school work. Teachers have to devote more time trying to correct this and the education of the other children suffers. Many people (not just in the illegal immigrant population) also think that schools are there to raise their children for them and do not do anything at home to prepare their children for the real world. Both of these issues need to be addressed more to help all children get a better education and be more productive in society.