How's That Hope and Change Working Out for Obama Supporters?

[Zero Sum 305]

Can this thread be pinned for when the RWNs start using the whole Obama the Socialist mantra next year?

[B_J 2,752]

That was a slogan and not a particularly good one.

Actually, Hope and Change was a great slogan. And I think many of the three groups mentioned in the original post cast their votes based on that slogan.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You are blaming the Great Recession on Supply-Side economics?

May I have hit off the pipe you're smoking?

Yes. The decline of the middle class and with it the US economy has started with supply-side economics some 30 years ago. There was a bit of a reversal - well, kore of a softening of the overall trend - in the last decade of the last century - co-incidentally this mild reversal followed voo-doo economics getting a bit of a whacking. If you can't see that or can't put one and one together, perhaps it's time you evaluate the ####### you're smoking.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

He had a blatantly obvious chance to make a good Change. But in stead of going against Big Business he jumped right in the sack with them. Correct, it is the Tax Code but who drives the changes to the Tax Code? The Government. There are Senate hearings over Toyota Cars but when GE pays nothing in taxes after making record profits you hire the executives?? That speaks volumes.

Big business has dictated policy in this country for several decades now. Corporations effectively govern this country. The unfortunate truth is that this is only getting worse no matter who occupies the White House or controls Congress. The Supreme Court recently cemented this trend by giving corporations unlimited power in terms of influencing elections. They'll spend billions to make ten fold returns by planting their servants in Congress. Neither party truly represents the people anymore but there is no party more blatant in their total commitment to corporate interests than the GOP.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Robert&Liliya 31]

Big business has dictated policy in this country for several decades now. The unfortunate truth is that this is only getting worse no matter who occupies the White House or controls Congress. The Supreme Court recently cemented this trend by giving corporations unlimited power in terms of influencing elections. They'll spend billions to make ten fold returns by planting their servants in Congress. Neither party truly represents the people anymore but there is no party more blatant in their total commitment to corporate interests than the GOP.

We the people have to stop pointing fingers at the other “party” and forgetting that half the blame for the state of the country resides with the party we are defending. At some point we need to say enough is enough and demand real change. If you campaign on a platform of change then it should not be business as usual when you are elected. What has changed? We got health care that was going to be paid for by savings from Medicare fraud. Has anything started on finding this money? Why is it we will always pay for something later? Why if we know about this stash of money can we not get it and then use it for funding when we have it? Has Gitmo closed? Have we pulled out of the Middle East? The only thing that has changed is the names on some offices and now everyone knows Nancy Pelosi is a Zombie.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We the people have to stop pointing fingers at the other “party” and forgetting that half the blame for the state of the country resides with the party we are defending. At some point we need to say enough is enough and demand real change. If you campaign on a platform of change then it should not be business as usual when you are elected. What has changed? We got health care that was going to be paid for by savings from Medicare fraud. Has anything started on finding this money? Why is it we will always pay for something later? Why if we know about this stash of money can we not get it and then use it for funding when we have it? Has Gitmo closed? Have we pulled out of the Middle East? The only thing that has changed is the names on some offices and now everyone knows Nancy Pelosi is a Zombie.

Yes, at some point we need to say "enough is enough". We should have demanded that health care reform included at least a public option - the public liked the idea a lot but corporate interests shot it down. We should have demanded that the private sector proves that it can deliver better results than government in this space. They know they can't. We know they can't. Medicare advantage is living proof of that. Instead, we vote people into office that appoint corporate servants to the Supreme Court which then gives more power to corporations. Do we ever learn? Of course not. Real change doesn't come overnight. We didn't get where we are overnight either. To expect a single person to change all that in 2 years while simultaneously battling the worst economic crisis in almost a century is unreasonable at best.

I look at policy proposals and I see what proposals are made for the greater good and what are made for narrow interest. I reject the latter and favor the former however imperfect it may be. The GOP has no interest whatsoever in the future of this country or in the well-being of the people. The GOP pushes as hard as it can to widen the inequality that exists, to wipe out what's left of the middle class and complete the job started in the 1980's: to turn this country into a Banana Republic that's going to make Latin America look good.

[Zero Sum 305]

Yes, at some point we need to say "enough is enough". We should have demanded that health care reform included at least a public option - the public liked the idea a lot but corporate interests shot it down. We should have demanded that the private sector proves that it can deliver better results than government in this space. They know they can't. We know they can't. Medicare advantage is living proof of that. Instead, we vote people into office that appoint corporate servants to the Supreme Court which then gives more power to corporations. Do we ever learn? Of course not. Real change doesn't come overnight. We didn't get where we are overnight either. To expect a single person to change all that in 2 years while simultaneously battling the worst economic crisis in almost a century is unreasonable at best.

I look at policy proposals and I see what proposals are made for the greater good and what are made for narrow interest. I reject the latter and favor the former however imperfect it may be. The GOP has no interest whatsoever in the future of this country or in the well-being of the people. The GOP pushes as hard as it can to widen the inequality that exists, to wipe out what's left of the middle class and complete the job started in the 1980's: to turn this country into a Banana Republic that's going to make Latin America look good.

And putting things into context... who has stood in the way of such change?

We definitely earn our politicians.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And putting things into context... who has stood in the way of such change?

Of course. The GOP has been working hard to stifle the recovery. They're not interested in reduced unemployment. They're not interested in economic growth. They're interested in widening the gap between revenues and outlays to have more of a reason to complain about the very deficits they labored hard to create. Starve the beast. That's what this is all about and what it all has been about for decades. They want the economy to dip again since that would improve their chances to unseat Obama. Getting the markets jittery with this debt ceiling nonsense is sure helping their case. Besides, it's easier to beat the country to death when it is down. Country first? Yeah right.

[mawilson 2,133]

The GOP has been working hard to stifle the recovery.

You're giving GOP way too much credit.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You're giving GOP way too much credit.

You know what I mean. You know that the GOP is more interested in regaining total control of government than they are in the economic recovery.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Actually, Hope and Change was a great slogan. And I think many of the three groups mentioned in the original post cast their votes based on that slogan.

I think that's disingenuous. To me, the issue seems to be that American voters generally seem to put too much emphasis on personality and the marketing machine that surrounds presidential election campaigns than on issues pertaining to their own self interest. That's been the case in at least the last 3 elections that I've followed.

The fact is too much emphasis was placed on Hope and Change (bizarrely enough, from people who dont support Obama) and Obama never really had to substantiate what it meant in real terms to voters. Of course this was on the back of an election that was extremely one sided (a horse could have won against the GOP after W's tenure and it's my belief that Bush was fundamentally different from every president before him (in my lifetime anyway).

I never got the impression from W that he knew what he was talking about, (remember all those strange press conferences?) i don't get that from Obama. But don't misunderstand, Obama has some pretty big faults too, like changing or forgetting his election promises, but in that respect is a typical career politician. It was Bush Jr. who was the aberration.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Seriously? Is there anyone still thinking (waiting for) Obama will rescue them and improve their lives?

[Zero Sum 305]

I think that's disingenuous. To me, the issue seems to be that American voters generally seem to put too much emphasis on personality and the marketing machine that surrounds presidential election campaigns than on issues pertaining to their own self interest. That's been the case in at least the last 3 elections that I've followed.

The fact is too much emphasis was placed on Hope and Change (bizarrely enough, from people who dont support Obama) and Obama never really had to substantiate what it meant in real terms to voters. Of course this was on the back of an election that was extremely one sided (a horse could have won against the GOP after W's tenure and it's my belief that Bush was fundamentally different from every president before him (in my lifetime anyway).

I never got the impression from W that he knew what he was talking about, (remember all those strange press conferences?) i don't get that from Obama. But don't misunderstand, Obama has some pretty big faults too, like changing or forgetting his election promises, but in that respect is a typical career politician. It was Bush Jr. who was the aberration.

I wouldn't be surprised that it was the opposition to Obama that used the hyperbole we have seen and will increasingly see as the 2012 election woefully comes around. Why?

Because they really have very little to criticize of substance.

[B_J 2,752]

I think that's disingenuous. To me, the issue seems to be that American voters generally seem to put too much emphasis on personality and the marketing machine that surrounds presidential election campaigns than on issues pertaining to their own self interest. That's been the case in at least the last 3 elections that I've followed.

That's exactly why hope and change was so effective. Obama gave incredible speeches, had a catchy slogan, and some people really bought into the celebrity President idea. There were a lot of people who had no idea where either candidate stood on the issues, but they just really liked Obama.

[Zero Sum 305]

That's exactly why hope and change was so effective. Obama gave incredible speeches, had a catchy slogan, and some people really bought into the celebrity President idea. There were a lot of people who had no idea where either candidate stood on the issues, but they just really liked Obama.

I agree, it was a slogan much like Country First.

Can you imagine if candidates actually discussed the issues? And I don't mean the debates either... or any politician for that matter. Their PR firms would be in serious trouble.