Why are you a Democrat/Republican?

[mawilson 2,133]

So, we're left with the 3rd option: do nothing and wait for collapse.

Yep.

Preparing for the next collapse.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

A lot of unneeded drama in that paragraph. The only thing I'm trying to do is get you to take off your Muslim blinders.

Do you tell Black people to take off their Black blinders or Brown people to take off their Brown blinders and think more White, too? Or is it just Muslims who need to stop thinking like Muslims and be more like non-Muslims?

Take off your non-Muslim blinders, how about that?

I am not hostile towards Islam. I, unlike you will be honest when it comes to Islam. You are way too sensitive when it comes to this issue.

How can you claim to be honest about Islam when you're so blatantly ignorant of it to the point of sounding hostile? I'm only sensitive about Islam, in your opinion, because you're so disinterested in anyone's view of it other than yours.

The only reason Islam got brought up was because of this post you made -

I used to be a flaming Republican. Now, I hate both parties equally coz they're full of stupid people who get the media attention.

We all know why you're not a "flaming republican" anymore. I'm just trying to tell you that your wrong about a lot of us, we don't hate Islam. Now just because were not going to make excuses for a lot of the nonsense that comes out of Islam doesn't mean were haters. I have never said it was all Muslims and I dont buy into your picking choosing what parts of Islam you want to consider Islam.

You want to define Islam for me? You think you're qualified to do that when you have terrorist mythology and right wing propaganda as your resources? That's what makes you sound so hateful; you think you know everything when you don't and you actually expect me to bow down to you as the superior authority coz you're so honest and objective about something you're really pretty damn clueless about.

You're not helping Republicans look good to me, so quit while you're just being naively offensive.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So, we're left with the 3rd option: do nothing and wait for collapse.

Actually, as it stands, doing nothing would be one of our best options. The federal budget would be balanced in less than a decade if Congress would just DO NOTHING.

[웃 910]

Actually, as it stands, doing nothing would be one of our best options. The federal budget would be balanced in less than a decade if Congress would just DO NOTHING.

Maybe W. was right after all?

"This thaw - took a while to thaw, it's going to take a while to unthaw." Oct. 20, 2008, in Alexandria, La., as he discussed the economy and frozen credit markets.

"The fact that they purchased the machine meant somebody had to make the machine. And when somebody makes a machine, it means there's jobs at the machine-making place." - May 27, 2008, in Mesa, Ariz.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe W. was right after all?

Well, the federal budget would be looking a hell of a lot better if we had just left W's tax cuts expire last year. All of them. Maybe he was right to have them sunset in Dec 2010. Sad thing is, we not only pushed them out two more years but actually added to the cuts making the deficit ever larger.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Do you tell Black people to take off their Black blinders or Brown people to take off their Brown blinders and think more White, too? Or is it just Muslims who need to stop thinking like Muslims and be more like non-Muslims?

Take off your non-Muslim blinders, how about that?

When it comes to the black people who always act like they can't get a break because of their skin color, I say suck it up we all have hurdles in life so quit it and get with the program this is the 21st century.

How can you claim to be honest about Islam when you're so blatantly ignorant of it to the point of sounding hostile? I'm only sensitive about Islam, in your opinion, because you're so disinterested in anyone's view of it other than yours.

Simply not true. I am opened minded when it comes to all things Islam. Its pointless to have a discussion because your always on the offense. I have tried to throw softballs to get a discussion going, then you just come back swinging indiscriminately. What have I said that is so ignorant? I have not been that vocal here on VJ about Islam.

You want to define Islam for me? You think you're qualified to do that when you have terrorist mythology and right wing propaganda as your resources? That's what makes you sound so hateful; you think you know everything when you don't and you actually expect me to bow down to you as the superior authority coz you're so honest and objective about something you're really pretty damn clueless about.

There is a lot of things I dont know but I do know this, Islam has a extreme element that needs to be dealt with.

You're not helping Republicans look good to me, so quit while you're just being naively offensive.

I have not said anything over the top but you keep going on and on like I did, just proves how sensitive you are when it comes to this subject.

Edited June 15, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When it comes to the black people who always act like they can't get a break because of their skin color, I say suck it up we all have hurdles in life so quit it and get with the program this is the 21st century.

Oh, so you leave out the be White like me part for them. It's just the Muslims who need to stop being Muslims to please you.

Simply not true. I am opened minded when it comes to all things Islam. Its pointless to have a discussion because your always on the offense. I have tried to throw softballs to get a discussion going, then you just come back swinging indiscriminately. What have I said that is so ignorant? I have not been that vocal here on VJ about Islam.

What have you said that expresses your open-mindedness about Islam? You tell me to stop thinking like a Muslim. You tell me you know more about Islam than I do, and that what you know is that Islam is anti-western. You tell me that a "We" that doesn't include me, allows me to be here and that trying not offend "you people" is not warranted.

So, you don't mind being offensive, and, whether you realize it or not, you are. And, I don't really care that you're offensive. What bothers me is that you actively believe I need to think as you do to be acceptable to America. That's serious fcuked up thinking.

There is a lot of things I dont know but I do know this, Islam has a extreme element that needs to be dealt with.

I don't even know what that means. Islam just is. It doesn't DO anything. It's no more extreme than Judaism or Christianity. Maybe you mean that there are extremist Muslims. That we can agree on, but Islam doesn't hate the west, Islam didn't attack anyone. Islam just is, but when you blame the faith for the acts of some Muslims, you tar us all for following it, and that is offensive. And, when you say I need to stop thinking like a Muslim, you infer that denying my faith is the only way I can become normal and acceptable and American enough for you. Well, not gonna happen.

I have not said anything over the top but you keep going on and on like I did, just proves how sensitive you are when it comes to this subject.

All we have here is words, Simpson. Maybe you need to read yours out loud before you hit the "Add Reply" button, coz, if you want to talk with me, you need to stop telling me what I should think and how I feel to deal with you. It will be easier for me not to deal with you of I have to change who I am and become who you want me to be to do it.

[scandal 951]

I his dealing with Giannoulias' and his constant false innuendo about the corruption that wasn't in Giannoulias' grip is where I was sold to not vote for Kirk. Since taking office, though, he has proven to be a bit more interested in working with Durbin for the State of Illinois than the GOP, overall, alongside Democrats, for the nation as a whole. If this continues and the Democrats don't have a candidate next time that represents my values better than his record in Washington, then he may get my vote.

Very well said.

[Zero Sum 305]

Very well said.

TY.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

TY.

How's BY?

[Zero Sum 305]

How's BY?

Who?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Who?

You know.

[Zero Sum 305]

You know.

I wish I did.

[scandal 951]

I can't really nail down a specific reason or cause of my political leanings, but to me the liberal side of the issues seem wrong. I feel that hard work should be rewarded and not those who wish to milk the system.

I consider myself a liberal. And yet I too feel that hard work should be rewarded, and have no use for those who want to get by on the backs of others. Funny, how we have the same instinct for work ethic and come to different ideological viewpoints.

In my experience, it's the corporate welfare clients, the large businesses and white collar professional set with their hands out that riles me most. Large and profitable businesses and businessmen who know how to game the system, play the lobbyist game, hire the tax accountants to shimmy through the tax loopholes, hide their assets offshore, write off their golf games and Jamaica vacations as business expenses .... while the working stiffs like you and me are just trying to pay our mortgage and maybe, just maybe, HAVE that Jamaica vacation once every few years.

Social programs are going to rot this country inside out and continue to create a society of people who have no initative except on how to get more for less.

I guess I disagree with you on this. While of course everything should be done in moderation and nothing is good in excess, and this applies to social programs, I believe that having a social safety net is far, far better than the alternative of not having one. I say that partly for classical liberal compassionate reasons: that as a society we should look after the less fortunate and take care of each other. But also for what I consider enlightened self-interest: let's say I didn't give a damn about whether your grandpa has Medicare or your grandma collects Social Security, or you have healthcare or unemployment insurance. I don't know you - why should I care? The reason is that our collective economic productivity and output is directly related to the health, education, and well-being of our workforce. Having educated, capable, healthy productive citizens who in turn have healthy children in good schools with good after-school programs, and whose parents and ill or disabled relatives are cared for and have suitable healthcare - makes those individuals collectively better performers who show up to work and get the job done. Having drug treatment facilities and social workers and foster care programs keeps kids and troubled members of our society off the street and out of the revolving doors of crime and jail. Perfect? of course not. But I believe as a (liberal) taxpayer that I get my money's worth when my taxes support programs that make my society's less fortunate healthier, better educated, and better adjusted to function in society.

I will give you real-world example of this. I am an accountant and had a young lady come in to have her taxes prepared while doing the interview I asked her various questions as to deductible expense, child care, education, mortgages, property taxes, etc... While asking all of this she made me aware that she did not have to pay for her tuition, child care was taken care for her two children, she lived in section 8 housing, received food stamps and hell I can't remember all. Well, I finished up her return and told her her refund and then gave her the invoice for me fee. She then told me "I can't pay" I told her the payment options and she let me know "well last year some one else did them for free". I removed her W-2's handed them back to her and proceeded to shred the return and told her she should go back there.

Only for someone who is getting everything handed to them would they expect someone to render a service and not have payment ready upon completion. I see that as a leech on society. I am sure the liberal would see something different.

Well, if I'm the liberal you refer to, then I would agree with you. A person who comes to you and takes advantage of you and expects services to be provided for free, as you've described it, is a leech. I don't condone that. I wonder why you invested as much time as you did before confirming with this client that you expect to be paid for your services, and not offer them pro bono? Surely that's something you do routinely in your line of work?

In any event, your example points out that our society has leeches. I agree. We have low income poor leeches. And we have high income rich ones. And I don't like either kind. And none of that to me has much to do about the benefits of being a liberal or a conservative.

Darn, didn't intend to write a book for you to read. I will clam up now.

Cheers,

Alvin

Could be I topped you

You know.

I know one thing. There's a rumor that a certain Boston sports franchise is about to have a 7th game in a best of 7 championship playoff against a certain Canadian franchise. I know who you're rooting for. I think I'll stick up for the Australians. BY would appreciate that, I'm sure.

[Zero Sum 305]

I consider myself a liberal. And yet I too feel that hard work should be rewarded, and have no use for those who want to get by on the backs of others. Funny, how we have the same instinct for work ethic and come to different ideological viewpoints.

In my experience, it's the corporate welfare clients, the large businesses and white collar professional set with their hands out that riles me most. Large and profitable businesses and businessmen who know how to game the system, play the lobbyist game, hire the tax accountants to shimmy through the tax loopholes, hide their assets offshore, write off their golf games and Jamaica vacations as business expenses .... while the working stiffs like you and me are just trying to pay our mortgage and maybe, just maybe, HAVE that Jamaica vacation once every few years.

I guess I disagree with you on this. While of course everything should be done in moderation and nothing is good in excess, and this applies to social programs, I believe that having a social safety net is far, far better than the alternative of not having one. I say that partly for classical liberal compassionate reasons: that as a society we should look after the less fortunate and take care of each other. But also for what I consider enlightened self-interest: let's say I didn't give a damn about whether your grandpa has Medicare or your grandma collects Social Security, or you have healthcare or unemployment insurance. I don't know you - why should I care? The reason is that our collective economic productivity and output is directly related to the health, education, and well-being of our workforce. Having educated, capable, healthy productive citizens who in turn have healthy children in good schools with good after-school programs, and whose parents and ill or disabled relatives are cared for and have suitable healthcare - makes those individuals collectively better performers who show up to work and get the job done. Having drug treatment facilities and social workers and foster care programs keeps kids and troubled members of our society off the street and out of the revolving doors of crime and jail. Perfect? of course not. But I believe as a (liberal) taxpayer that I get my money's worth when my taxes support programs that make my society's less fortunate healthier, better educated, and better adjusted to function in society.

Well, if I'm the liberal you refer to, then I would agree with you. A person who comes to you and takes advantage of you and expects services to be provided for free, as you've described it, is a leech. I don't condone that. I wonder why you invested as much time as you did before confirming with this client that you expect to be paid for your services, and not offer them pro bono? Surely that's something you do routinely in your line of work?

In any event, your example points out that our society has leeches. I agree. We have low income poor leeches. And we have high income rich ones. And I don't like either kind. And none of that to me has much to do about the benefits of being a liberal or a conservative.

Could be I topped you

These two posts were very earnest and I appreciated reading them, independent of me not agreeing with the previous poster's contention that the political philosophy he ascribed to American liberals is really defining of the ideology to begin with.

BUT SOMEONE NEEDS TO FILL ME IN ON THIS AUSTRALIAN because I'm really lost.