Chance of obtaining an employment visa with previous conviction

[amoamo 0]

I'm British, my husband is South African staying in the UK with an Indefinite Leave to Remain visa. He was caught with less than a gram of coke in South Africa when he was much younger over a decade ago (stupid mistake, but its done, and it wasn't for intent to sell, just personal use). Over there they take drug offences very seriously - for that he was charged in court, served a day's sentence plus probation. Since then he had left South Africa. He came to the UK to work, and had never mentioned his previous conviction in South Africa in all of his visa applications here in UK. He said that under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 that conviction is spent. And he's been in the UK for a long time now, and kept a very clean record. Now he's thinking of going abroad to work for a few years to earn more money, so that he can return to the UK to buy a house (as we are finding it so hard to save up money here and property prices are high). He works for a company with some branches in the US. They are not aware of his previous conviction I think, since he never put it down in his job application (and if they do know, they are not saying) but they have said they are happy to transfer him over there if that's what he wants. They don't know about his previous conviction though. If he asks for a transfer to the US for a few years, would the company then have to apply for an employment visa for him? I'm not sure how likely it would be that the employment visa application will be accepted based on his past conviction (no matter how long ago it was). Also, if his employment visa application is rejected, will his company then know about it? Can anybody here give me some advice on this?? He was thinking, maybe he should just apply for British citizenship soon (he will qualify easily) before asking for a transfer, then he will be treated as a British citizen, with no convictions as far as the UK is concerned. We are planning to go as a family - me and the kids already being British. Will that work though? Any thoughts?

[Mrs O. 29]

Even if he gets british citizenship, he will be asked to furnish police reports from every country he's lived since age 16. If the conviction will still show up on his SA police report then concealing the fact will be seen as misrepresentation. I'm not sure whether that conviction will affect his eleigibility for a visa. Also not sure how his employer will take it (depends on the nature of his job I guess)

[amoamo 0]

I'm looking at the application form for naturalisation as a British citizen online here : http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_an.pdf

It says on there under the section "Criminal Convictions : Civil Judgments", under question 3.6 :

"Do you have any criminal convictions in the UK or any other country (including traffic offences) or any civil

judgements made against you? Yes No

If you have answered Yes above please give details below for each sentence starting with the most recent one.

If you have received more than two sentences you should continue on page 13.

Convictions spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 need not be disclosed (see page 16 of the Booklet AN)."

So does that mean he isn't required to put down his past conviction then? If he doesn't do so, its not misrepresentation is it?

[amoamo 0]

Hmmm just read the Booklet AN here : http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_an.pdf

And it says on page 15 "You do not have to give details of any offences which are “spent” under the Rehabilitation

of Offenders Act 1974. Under that Act certain convictions may be regarded as “spent” in the

United Kingdom after certain periods of time from the date of conviction if you have not

been convicted of other offences during that time. “Spent” means that it will be ignored. A

leaflet about this called “Wiping the Slate Clean” is available from the Home Office, Direct

Communications Unit, 2 Marsham Street, LONDON, SW1P 4DF."

The thing is, would his particular type of previous conviction be the type that the Rehab of Offenders Act applies to? If so he would be okay to just not put it down on the application. Anyone know anything about this?

Edited June 6, 2011 by amoamo

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Even if it wiped his record clean for UK purposes it doesn't mean that applies to US immigration and drug offenses are more problematic than others. Even if he gets his citizenship in the UK he probably can't use VWP.

[amoamo 0]

What if he doesn't declare the past conviction in the US employment visa application? As far as the UK is concerned, his slate is clean. And he's been here for yonks.

[amoamo 0]

Just found the "Wiping The Slate Clean" leaflet from the Home Office online here : http://www.unlock.org.uk/upload_pdf/wiping_the_slate_clean.pdf

so yes I think his slate is defo clean as far as the UK is concerned as its been nearly 2 decades since and he's got a very clean record since and has been such a good employee. Sad though that America doesn't see it that way.

[Helen Louise Pile 80]

I did a quick search and found this: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/visaservices/?p=136

It states that the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act is not applicable to US visa law.

I hope someone can give you some good advice about how to proceed from here.

You must be truthful on US immigration forms (and indeed any immigration forms). I would not try to hide the conviction, but rather try and find a way to proceed legally.

Good luck!

[Harsh_77 718]

Good advice is simple BE HONEST and TELL THE TRUTH, specially with immigration, if ever they find out you mis-represented on any of the immigration forms you could be stripped of your perm resident status or even citizen status.

You are trying to conceal some event that happened years ago, depending on the nature and countries regulation if its part of active record - this would be a bad bad idea.

Another imp point to think you are coming to US to save and return back to UK to buy a house - are you serious?

Pound is much stronger than Dollar so how are you ever going to make it?

[amoamo 0]

Another imp point to think you are coming to US to save and return back to UK to buy a house - are you serious?

To be honest with you, the idea of going to US is kind of falling out of favour with us now. No I don't really feel like risking it by getting on the wrong side of US law. We all know what that means. Look at the Iraq invasion, etc. We have decided to stay put in the UK, we will eventually get there with buying a house, just won't be as nice a house as we'd like if we had more money to start with. Hubby will consider going to the Middle East or Africa for a few years if we really wanted the money - they have more relaxed immigration rules and pay better money than UK/US. Security-wise, not so great perhaps, but that's one of the reasons why we have always wanted to return to the UK ultimately. We love it here. But thanks to all who replied anyway. You must be relieved, LOL

Finally to answer your question, well, its not about the currency but about the cost of living. Yes we all know the pound is stronger than the dollar, good for us Brits when we go for holidays in America - more spending power! But if we're going there to live and work then its a different matter and things are not quite as simple. The problem is that normal everyday things don't cost the same in UK as they do in the US - people in the US just don't pay as much for basic necessities as we do in UK. Petrol prices for example - in the UK we pay higher prices here for petrol. Right now its around £1.40 per litre in UK where we live but its around $3.50 per gallon (3.78 litres) in the US which is like £0.97 per litre. UK house prices are WAY higher than American house prices (in fact, UK house prices are way overpriced) and if you lived in the American Midwest or some Southern states for example, you could pay rent/mortgage for a house that is typically triple or quadruple the size of something that costs similar in the UK where we live. Also food prices are just generally cheaper in America. Eating out in America is much much cheaper than in the UK. Basically what I learnt from friends who've lived there is that if you avoid living in the major US cities like NY, LA, FL, etc. food, housing, clothes, etc. tend to be cheaper than in the UK. Something that costs £1 in UK costs $1 in America. You basically replace the pound sign with the dollar sign and there you go - so the British do pay more for similar things because we are paying £1 for a bag of onions and in America they would pay $1 for it? Another point is that the American company would include health insurance as part of the package as well - over here they don't National Insurance for you or council tax (which these days also helps fund the NHS system apparently). Also, we know that for my husband's job, if he went to America it would pay him slightly more than the equivalent in dollars of what he earns in pounds here... so basically he'd be earning slightly more than in the UK, but with the cost of basics and housing and petrol and cars cheaper in general over there than in UK, we'll end up with more disposable income at the end of the day whichever way you look at it, and that would go into our savings, ultimately, if we were to go there at all.

That said, like I said before... I probably will not want him to go there anymore. Its just not worth it. The US does not believe in the rehabilitation of people. That's it at the end of the day. Thankfully the UK does. If my husband hadn't been given a second chance to do well in life after his teenage mistake, then it would be all the pity.

Edited June 7, 2011 by amoamo

[amoamo 0]

Helen, what I've been told is that there is no way he will be allowed lawful entry to America because he was convicted of possession of a controlled substance no matter how small the amount. The waiver only applies to possession of under 30g of weed. The only possibilities that he will gain lawful entry into America would be say, if America decides to change the laws surrounding this, or if he was given a presidential pardon (pie in the sky!) Its ironic that if he was caught with possession of such a small amount of coke in either America or the UK, he would just be given a slap on the wrist or a police caution, nothing as heavy-handed as being charged in court, having to serve a day's jail and probation!

Thanks for the link btw

Edited June 7, 2011 by amoamo

[newlyweds2010 208]

If his company wants him to work for their parent/subsidiary in the US, he will need an L1 visa, A or B depending on his qualifications (managerial or not). In both cases, he will have to go to an interview at the US consulate of the country of residence (in this case, the UK). at that stage, he will have to declare in a form whether he was ever convicted of a crime. any crime. no matter when that occurred.

[Harsh_77 718]

To be honest with you, the idea of going to US is kind of falling out of favour with us now. No I don't really feel like risking it by getting on the wrong side of US law. We all know what that means. Look at the Iraq invasion, etc. We have decided to stay put in the UK, we will eventually get there with buying a house, just won't be as nice a house as we'd like if we had more money to start with. Hubby will consider going to the Middle East or Africa for a few years if we really wanted the money - they have more relaxed immigration rules and pay better money than UK/US. Security-wise, not so great perhaps, but that's one of the reasons why we have always wanted to return to the UK ultimately. We love it here. But thanks to all who replied anyway. You must be relieved, LOL

Finally to answer your question, well, its not about the currency but about the cost of living. Yes we all know the pound is stronger than the dollar, good for us Brits when we go for holidays in America - more spending power! But if we're going there to live and work then its a different matter and things are not quite as simple. The problem is that normal everyday things don't cost the same in UK as they do in the US - people in the US just don't pay as much for basic necessities as we do in UK. Petrol prices for example - in the UK we pay higher prices here for petrol. Right now its around £1.40 per litre in UK where we live but its around $3.50 per gallon (3.78 litres) in the US which is like £0.97 per litre. UK house prices are WAY higher than American house prices (in fact, UK house prices are way overpriced) and if you lived in the American Midwest or some Southern states for example, you could pay rent/mortgage for a house that is typically triple or quadruple the size of something that costs similar in the UK where we live. Also food prices are just generally cheaper in America. Eating out in America is much much cheaper than in the UK. Basically what I learnt from friends who've lived there is that if you avoid living in the major US cities like NY, LA, FL, etc. food, housing, clothes, etc. tend to be cheaper than in the UK. Something that costs £1 in UK costs $1 in America. You basically replace the pound sign with the dollar sign and there you go - so the British do pay more for similar things because we are paying £1 for a bag of onions and in America they would pay $1 for it? Another point is that the American company would include health insurance as part of the package as well - over here they don't National Insurance for you or council tax (which these days also helps fund the NHS system apparently). Also, we know that for my husband's job, if he went to America it would pay him slightly more than the equivalent in dollars of what he earns in pounds here... so basically he'd be earning slightly more than in the UK, but with the cost of basics and housing and petrol and cars cheaper in general over there than in UK, we'll end up with more disposable income at the end of the day whichever way you look at it, and that would go into our savings, ultimately, if we were to go there at all.

That said, like I said before... I probably will not want him to go there anymore. Its just not worth it. The US does not believe in the rehabilitation of people. That's it at the end of the day. Thankfully the UK does. If my husband hadn't been given a second chance to do well in life after his teenage mistake, then it would be all the pity.

You comparison is good but is not fare and square – we can leave it at that or talk more.

When you see the cheaper house rents in US, means the local salary is also lower for that same kinda job.

Example – a guy doing job A in NY will get $10 bucks same Job A when is performed by someone in different city lets say Kansas he might only get paid like $7-8. The apartment and rest of your other expense might be cheaper in Kansas as well compared to NY.

So it comes out roughly as same when you thinking from savings perspective.

Yes the Gas is cheaper, how many miles do an average American drives and how many miles an average British drives to work?

Average American drives 16 miles to work, average British drives 8.6 miles to work. Gas is cheaper but you going to need more etc.

Living in both countries I think if you are just migrating to save then that’s not happening, if you thing you can live real simple life in either country and save then you can do the same in the country where you live.