What to do when visitor visa denied?

[Snake&Dog 0]

"helping out" is another one of those thinly disguised phrases that really means.."coming to the US to engage in full time child care so the mother can return to work.."...however,child care is work...and if you doubt that, find out how many nannies will do the job for nothing....also, congressmen/senators have no power over the consular official's decision...they cannot legally order that a visa be issued, and no one can 'vouch' for the actions of another...

Well, in this case, the issue of a child being born never came up in the interview or in any document received, so this topic not exactly germane to my post. But to address your point - the letter of invitation that the parents carried from us emphatically stated that we were each on long leaves from work to take care of the child ourselves, which is the truth. I receive State funded "Bonding" leave that doubles my saved-up vacation time and so I have months off and so does my wife (she quit work). We were asking the grandparents not to be our nannies but to be part of the experience. This is different, I think. I would never say infant care is not work. But since this is a new experience for both of us, and also their first grandchild, it does not seem an unnatural idea to me to have her Mom look in. And she wants to. We were disguising nothing. Our concern is that the interview, which could have captured all of these considerations this never occurred. The facts of the application would have required more time for the officer to assimilate. I would estimate about 2 minutes. But by all accounts the interviews are way more perfunctory, unfortunately so for the reputation of Americans.

As for the congressional office, I am told by the my local representative's office that they can ask the Consulate Generals office to review a decision or at least explain it. This also seems reasonable.

[Snake&Dog 0]

Consular decision is not reviewable even by the President.

That said, did the parents submit itinerary, round trip tickets and offer to post bond?

Do they have substantial assets in China ?

Its pretty common to get refused on these VISA's due to the 'work" aspect. Something they said might have led the consular to believe they are doing child care while in US. And previous poster is correct this is a job.

I appreciate the comments. The parents passed the officer their documents and the first thing the officer did was push them right back out. They had an itinerary and could have easily posted bond, although I am not sure there is a procedure for this. Do you know anything about this? (Their assets are ample by Chinese standards).

There was no hint of a child, and my wife is 40. While I agree that the suspicion of childcare could provide a simple explanation for the denial - I honestly don't think it is likely for the officer to suppose this. That was simply not the way things went.

The real problem it seems to me is that they were steamrolled right out of the interview. The "interview" process did not include any such considerations as mentioned above. We had worked hours on succinct letters which no one took one minute to glance at and whose subject mater was never broached. We have worried about this problem and now we are thinking in the next interview is that if they can not show documents, the parents need to start talking fast to slip some of this information in. The officer this week seemed to operate entirely on instinct - far too much: my parents in law have not the slightest interest in staying long. It seems that the applicant has no chance to make a fair case and is left guessing if any one part of the truth is a liability or a virtue. E.g., it was mentioned in this thread that leaving money behind was good but don't leave a precious child behind. Such confusion over the meaning of such signals enters a process when a modicum good communication (between the officer and applicant) is absent.

I imagine a Consular decision is reviewable by the Consular General, no? But I would also imagine a refused Visitor Visa may not be considered worthy of the attention of higher ups. So I have (after all this) a practical question -

Do they simply fill out the forms again and request a new interview? I think the China waiting period for an interview is now 24 days.

Oh yes, please - I agree. Yes, for certain, caring for a child is a full time job. :-) As I mentioned - we are stay-at-home Mom & Dads. Each of us.

[Noah Lot 391]

Well, there is no such thing as a 'review' or reconsideration. All that will likely happen is the congressman will write a boilerplate letter that the consulate will answer with their own..part of the problem that you are dealing with is a result of the untold thousands who have obtained visas under false pretenses...using it to work, for example (something that posting a bond cannot prevent). As to the length of the interview, well, the consular staff only ask for documents if they think that such papers will add something (or, as is more likely in many countries, subtract a lot) to the interview...but, there is NO document that automatically qualifies an applicant, NO document that can guarantee that the applicant will depart the US promptly and NO document that can make sure that the visa holder does not work without permission...in short, there is NO document that, when presented, will cause visa issuance.

The consular officials are there to determine intent, something that cannot be proved instantly by presenting some paper. their responses to questions and the way they answer them are the cornerstone of the interview, and is their opportunity to demonstrate or establish their credibility. Many times applicants fail because they answer questions in ways that appear evasive, and evasiveness is associated with not telling the truth (entirely). So who really knows what took place at the interview; you no doubt received an edited version, since you weren't there, and your in-laws will have tried to portray themselves as innocent victims and the consular official as some mean spirited individual....but who has more experience interviewing applicants?? Your in-laws, or the consular official?

Bottom line: they will have to establish their credibility, and they have do this all by themselves...no one else can 'vouch' for them; you cannot guarantee that they will leave the US when they are supposed to nor that they won't work without permission. Who is to blame? All those (as I mentioned before) who used this object of trust, a tourist visa, for some other purpose.

[Snake&Dog 0]

There's really nothing you can do, except try again. This seems like the consulate's/embassy's main revenue stream, from poor suckers who pony up $150 each time. That's a pretty good revenue when there's 100-150 people a day applying.

I know because pretty much the same happened to us, except it was for my step kids (age 13, 14). They wanted to stay in their home country with the grandparents but they want to visit. Even though we could file I-130's and have them here relatively quickly, they still denied the tourist visas. I actually told the guy, "why would we bring them on tourist visas and have them stay as illegals if we could bring them over legally?" The a-hole didn't have an answer and still denied them. I tried to "vouch" for them but they still denied. I asked what we could bring to show ties and he pretty much told us that they are not getting a tourist visa. So screw them, once my wife naturalizes early next year, we'll bring them over on I-130's, they will become US citizens upon entering the US, and then they will go back to Costa Rica as US citizens and be free to come and go as they please. You're in a different boat because the wait would be too long, so you can only tyr again and maybe the next guy will approve. It's 100% subjective. One guy says no. and the next yes. It's random.

And those consulate officers have such bad attitudes too. That's what pissed me off the most.

Thanks for the comment. I do have a little sympathy for the officers. I have been to the Guangzhou China consulate arriving at the wee hours standing in the sea of anxious applicants crowding in the open outdoor space with the police stopping anyone with a camera.

The huge stream of applicants from China requires either more capacity (windows, officers and the rest) or else relies on these flash (I would say unfair) interviews to shorten the delays.

That being said - the Visa process is so arbitrary that several people I know instead get their in-laws to apply to become Immigrants - residents holding green cards (when they simple want to visit!) since that process seems to actually include some thoughtful examination of the case.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Snake&Dog

[Noah Lot 391]

and yes, if they wish to reapply, that is what takes the place of a 'reconsideration.'

Again, papers prove nothing. And back to those who have 'fudged' the truth before, many of them have used phony papers to achieve that end...which is why the consular officials give little or no weight to most documents...since just about any document can be 'crafted' in some back alley print shop (I am not suggesting that your in-laws did any such thing; it's just that others have done this, which is why the papers went back to them).....a consular official will ask for those papers they wish to review rather than have to spend a lot of time sifting through papers that, statistically, have no real positive effect on the outcome of an interview.

Anyway, assuming everything you have said is true, then I wish them good luck next time.

[Snake&Dog 0]

I know because pretty much the same happened to us, except it was for my step kids (age 13, 14). They wanted to stay in their home country with the grandparents but they want to visit. Even though we could file I-130's and have them here relatively quickly, they still denied the tourist visas. I actually told the guy, "why would we bring them on tourist visas and have them stay as illegals if we could bring them over legally?" The a-hole didn't have an answer and still denied them. I tried to "vouch" for them but they still denied. I asked what we could bring to show ties and he pretty much told us that they are not getting a tourist visa. So screw them, once my wife naturalizes early next year, we'll bring them over on I-130's, they will become US citizens upon entering the US, and then they will go back to Costa Rica as US citizens and be free to come and go as they please. You're in a different boat because the wait would be too long, so you can only tyr again and maybe the next guy will approve. It's 100% subjective. One guy says no. and the next yes. It's random.

And those consulate officers have such bad attitudes too. That's what pissed me off the most.

Thanks for the comment. I do have a little sympathy for the officers. I have been to the Guangzhou China consulate, arriving at the wee hours, standing in the sea of anxious applicants who crowd the open outdoor space. They are under observation of the police, who stop anyone with a camera.

The huge stream of applicants from China requires either more Consulate capacity (windows, officers and the rest) or else must continue to rely on these lousy flash (I would say unfair) interviews to keep processing the delays from growing insanely

.

That being said - the Tourist Visa process is so arbitrary that several people I know instead get their in-laws to apply to immigrate - to become residents holding green cards (even when the in-laws simple want to visit!) since that process seems to actually include some thoughtful examination of the case. So in that regard the Consulate is being counterproductive and increasing their own workload,

PS -While I don't think the monetary aspect is the reason for the denials, I do know that the revenue stream from China's tourist visitors is being looked at by our government. There has been the suggestion lately by some congressmen, that increasing Tourist Visa throughput volume and fees from China may be a good thing for the US in that it will capitalize on the growing Chinese economy.

[Eric-Pris 1,606]

That being said - the Visa process is so arbitrary that several people I know instead get their in-laws to apply to become Immigrants - residents holding green cards (when they simple want to visit!) since that process seems to actually include some thoughtful examination of the case.

Yes, that's what we'll be doing, but in our case they will be US citizens once my wife naturalizes.

BTW-your in-laws were not steamrolled. That's the way ALL tourist visa interviews go. You get about 2-3 minutes, but the officer probably makes his decision within the first 30 seconds. It's an assembly line operation collect money, give "no" decision, NEXT! But in all fairness, imagine if they gave everybody 10 minutes, they would be there past midnight. It's completely arbitrary and subjective. It's really the luck of the draw.

[Noah Lot 391]

Spoken like a true bona fide expert....

[Boiler 45,519]

Yes, that's what we'll be doing, but in our case they will be US citizens once my wife naturalizes.

BTW-your in-laws were not steamrolled. That's the way ALL tourist visa interviews go. You get about 2-3 minutes, but the officer probably makes his decision within the first 30 seconds. It's an assembly line operation collect money, give "no" decision, NEXT! But in all fairness, imagine if they gave everybody 10 minutes, they would be there past midnight. It's completely arbitrary and subjective. It's really the luck of the draw.

I am pretty sure in most cases the decision is made before you get to the window.

I applied for a B and did not get 2 minutes, so on that basis China is more understanding.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Post containing a personal attack has been removed. While sarcasm may be allowed in an Off Topic or Politics & Religion forum post, it is not acceptable in the Immigration forums. if you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion or if you cannot be courteous, then please do not participate in the discussion at all.

[Snake&Dog 0]

Post containing a personal attack has been removed. While sarcasm may be allowed in an Off Topic or Politics & Religion forum post, it is not acceptable in the Immigration forums. if you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion or if you cannot be courteous, then please do not participate in the discussion at all.

Dear Zookeeper - thanks for your help moderating. Also - something got jumbled above. If you look at posts 19 and 21 above you see that 21 is a repeat of 19 - 21 is my repeat effort to better comment. But since the top line

is missing in 21, the top paragraph looks attributed to me (Snake and Dog) not Eric-Pris. Maybe your moderator powers include fixing this by adding the missing

line into 21.

Thanks

Snake&Dog

Edited June 8, 2011 by Snake&Dog

[Harsh_77 718]

I am pretty sure in most cases the decision is made before you get to the window.

I applied for a B and did not get 2 minutes, so on that basis China is more understanding.

Thanks Boiler – I have tried to explain this over and over specially in tourist visa forum that most decisions are made by CO before they even come to window for the formal interview.

They have plenty of information based on the DS-160 and some consulates even ask for all the paperwork submitted to consulate ahead of time.

[Casprd 167]

I don't think it is exclusive to the tourist visas that the CO's make the decisions ahead of time. It seems that in many/most cases for an immigrant visa, the CO has already made the decision and it is a rare case that their decision is changed at the interview. There is so much visa fraud that the CO's are overly strict on every case, yet this just leads to more visa fraud. I am really hoping that we can have my wife's mom come visit and maybe her sister and nephew but since her mom is a widow I kind of doubt we can get her approved.

[Harsh_77 718]

Being strict does not mean more visa fraud – if they are not strict then anyone and everyone would be in US….lol

If ppl stop mis-using their visa when they are granted and return back to their home country then CO’s would not be strict.

PPl enter on tourist visa just to give birth in US, ppl enter as student or tourist and file for AOS coz they feel they are so special and count not wait for 8-9 months without their spouse.

PPL enter on tourist and student visa all the time to find work in US, ppl bring their parents under pretext of tourist and parents never return back to home country and on and on.

Also it depends on the economy situation of the applicants country and political relation between US and the country.

With all these happening how do you expect CO to welcome everyone with open arm who are applying for visa?

[DaveE111 10]

The problem is that you start out denied and have to convince the CO otherwise. "Tourist Visa is a non-immigrant visa. The hurdle to obtaining a tourist visa is the legal presumption that everybody that applies for it is an intending immigrant who has made a conscious choice to live in the United States."

The embassy in Manila (the one I try to deal with) specifically tells you that submitted additional documents will not help the visa applicant. "The following documents are not considered helpful:

(1) In general, affidavits of financial support will be of little value to an applicant (exception: a student visa application must have an affidavit of financial support). The affidavit of support is a requirement only for immigrant visas. The interviewing officer is less concerned about how the applicant will be supported during his/her stay in the United States than in whether s/he has reasons to return home.

(2) Letters of invitation (except for business travel).

(3) Purchase of airline ticket. This should not be made until a visa has been issued and the applicant is in receipt of the passport with the visa in it.