Just heard on Wisconsin Public Radio

[NickD 202]

Prisons are way over crowded, double their capacity, cost the taxpayers $40,000 per year per prisoner, average prison sentence is 54 months, but typically only 40 months are served. Over 60% are in for minor charges that were laughed at a couple of decades ago. Way disproportionate for minorities or what are considered minorities.

Didn't listen to the rest of the story, have other things to do, but found this to be shocking. Guest speaker says in most cases the 8th amendment to those in prison has been violated as the key reason we have so many in prison.

[^_^ 5,021]

... cost the taxpayers $40,000 per year per prisoner ...

What's interesting is that most of those in prison will never (legally) be able to make $40,000 per year on the outside. This is a very poor investment.

[slim 1,525]

What's interesting is that most of those in prison will never (legally) be able to make $40,000 per year on the outside. This is a very poor investment.

So basically if we paid criminals $40,000/year we wouldn't have a problem?

I like that idea! Seriously, I think it has some merit to it. If we're going to "invest" $40,000/year per prisoner why not just cut out the middle man and pay them!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Prison Corporations need to grow. They need more inmates, more demand for more facilities. So they lobby legislatures and judges to bring more business their way. It's really not that hard to see.

Does that help the country? No. Does it help the economy? No. Does it curb crime? No. Does it make stakeholders and executives of prison corporations a boatload of money? You betcha.

[^_^ 5,021]

So basically if we paid criminals $40,000/year we wouldn't have a problem?

Your public school education has not served you well at all, I'm afraid.

[Krikit 1,164]

You betcha.

'Fess up. You're Sarah Palin, aren't "ya"?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The finest in government housing.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

'Fess up. You're Sarah Palin, aren't "ya"?

The finest in government funded corporate housing.

fixed that for you.

[NickD 202]

Not easy to learn how many prisoners are locked up in Wisconsin, nearest number I can find is around 30,000 of which some odd 6,000 have been exported to other states. At $40,000 a piece, costing the state 1.2 billion per year by these estimates. Hear our governor complaining about school teachers, but nothing about our prisons. Guest on that WPR show said California is the worse state explaining why they are much deeper in debt than we are. Of course, a much larger state.

Just seems like if these prisoners were naughty, they should be paying their own way, and not free loading off the tax payers.

Governor wants to cut the state budget by 2.6 billion, just seems like prisons are the place to start. But you have to be careful what you say, may find yourself behind bars. The USA has the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. Nothing to be proud of for a free nation. Well the USSR was first in this race, until they collapsed, that can happen to us as well.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The USA has the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world.

Just get the profit motive out of incarceration and the rate will go down. As long as there is a buck to be made from locking people up, people will get locked up in ever larger numbers. This is where privatization isn't saving a dime but rather ends up costing billions.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Prison Corporations need to grow. They need more inmates, more demand for more facilities. So they lobby legislatures and judges to bring more business their way. It's really not that hard to see.

Does that help the country? No. Does it help the economy? No. Does it curb crime? No. Does it make stakeholders and executives of prison corporations a boatload of money? You betcha.

Spot on !!!

[NickD 202]

30 years for sniffing crack?

"New crack law should shorten some terms

By JESSICA GRESKO Associated Press The Associated Press Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:38 PM EDT""WASHINGTON (AP) — Some prisoners already serving time should benefit from a new law that lowers sentences for crack cocaine offenses, but only if their crimes did not involve weapons and they do not have lengthy arrest records, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday.

Holder made the statements while testifying before the U.S. Sentencing Commission, which is considering whether to retroactively apply lower sentencing guidelines resulting from the new law. As many as 12,000 inmates could see their sentences reduced by an average of three years.

"As years of experience and study have shown, there is simply no just or logical reason why their punishments should be dramatically more severe than those of other cocaine offenders," Holder said of crack offenders, who overwhelmingly have longer sentences than those convicted of offenses involving powder cocaine.

Last year, Congress passed and President Barack Obama signed the Fair Sentencing Act, which reduces penalties for crack cocaine offenses in order to reduce the disparity with powder cocaine penalties. But the act only addressed new cases, not old ones.

Holder told the commission he supports applying the new law to old cases, but not all of them. He said prisoners who used weapons during their crimes or have significant criminal histories should not have their sentences reduced. That could make about 6,000 of the 12,000 prisoners serving time for crack cocaine offenses ineligible for earlier release.

Most of the other people who testified Wednesday also supported making the new crack sentencing guidelines retroactive, including representatives of the American Bar Association and National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and former Drug Enforcement Administration head Asa Hutchinson, who was appointed by President George W. Bush.

But not everyone was in favor. David Hiller, vice president of the Fraternal Order of Police, said releasing offenders early would strain law enforcement and hurt communities by putting them back on the streets.

Several relatives of people jailed for crack cocaine offenses also attended the hearing. Among them was Cassandra Baker of Baltimore, whose fiance, David Williams, has served 12 years of a 30 year sentence. Though she doesn't know if the change would help him, she wants to see it happen to help others.

"I'm feeling somewhat optimistic," she said after listening to testimony and questions from commission members.

The commission is expected to rule within the next few months. Four of the six members would have to vote to support the idea. Congress would then have until the end of October to reject or modify the guidelines.

[Darnell 8,478]

Perhaps USA could ship prisoners to Malaysia ?

[NickD 202]

Perhaps USA could ship prisoners to Malaysia ?

Would be quite a boat load with 7 million people to transport. Most of these are drug related, from what little I know about, doesn't seem to be much of a distinction between a drug dealer and what I would call a drug dealer victim.

Also from the quantity of these illegal drugs imported into this country that is reported, goes a lot higher then some scum bag bringing these things in, little doubt that law enforcement, judges, and politicians are getting a piece of the action. Essentially, the same people making these drugs illegal in the first place. A first class sting operation if there ever was one.

As a parent, can tell you that our schools are not drug free, even though they have signs pasted all over to that effect. Its a constant problem. Question is, who is going to investigate it? Those that are profiting from it?

[Captain Oates 911]

So why has the USA got the largest percent prison population in the 1st world ?

We should assume that the USA is first world because it obviously is economically and military, even if it's arguable when it comes to social development

Is it that Americans are worse people on average than other countries (criminals)

OR

Does the USA have the same levels of imprisonable crime but exacts harsher penalties because of it's more judgemental, aggressive and punitive culture ?

Statistics can be misleading as there is lots of petty crime like theft and burglary in say the UK, but it isn't anything to worry about as it is rarely violent and there is no urgency in jailing criminals.

When I lived in the UK I was burgled regularly and my daughter was burgled last week while she was in bed. It consists of 19 year old drug addicts stealing televisions and laptops and if they are discovered, they run away. In the USA , it's more likely to be some inner city minority robbing a store at gun point. Still a crime but no comparison in it's seriousness

So, putting misleading statistics to one side, it appears to me that deprived minorities are causing much more serious crime in the USA and until the reasons for that are addressed, the problem will continue

Apart from that, the length of sentences and the terrifying conditions in US prisons are just horrible and need to be addressed. Treating someone like an animal and prison guards training guns on them is not likely to turn out a better citizen - which is why they are kept for 60 years.

I would never go into a American prison - I would apply 2nd amendment remedies to myself with my 303 Lee Enfield before I would ever go into a US jail. I have been in a lot of UK jails (not as an inmate) and I don't feel the same about them.

When you look at how the US treats Bradly Manning who hasn't even been tried, it's just barbaric. Solitary confinement and naked on a cold hard wood bench for month after month. I like living in the US while everything is going ok for me - but I do live in fear of US culture and 'justice' as I find it so aggressive and crude and violent and barbaric - so I always feel 'at risk' in case I go through a red light by mistake or hit a pedestrian while driving

I may be moving to Wisconsin later this year Nick - so sort it out quickly !

Edited June 2, 2011 by Alan the Red