Natural gas hot water heater inflation

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Can you please enlighten us as to whether there is a gas-fired tankless water-heater available?

Yes. Lowes has both Propane and Natural gas models in the local stores.

[NickD 202]

Its hard to call this inflation when supposedly the replacement model is better. It may just be an upsell, but if it trully is a superior appliance then the additional cost may be worth it. Perhaps its a case of the cheapest model not getting enough market share and being discontinued.

Only difference carefully comparing the new with the old, 1.25 square feet of additional jacket sheet metal and 0.78 cubic feet of foam that promises to save and extra six therms of gas per year. Would say for that little bit of a change, 150 bucks is indubitably inflation.

The one I had before this 3 1/2 year old one with the same 12 year warranty lasted 18 years. The way they did the paper work, looks like this new one is purchased as a brand new unit with no warranty exchange, so starting from scratch with a fresh. So I can look at it as it cost me 150 bucks for using the old one for 3 1/2 years that isn't too bad.

Gas valve, burner, input BTU rating was exactly the same, could have taken off all those parts for spares, but just wanted to get rid of the darn thing. 3 1/2 years ago, with the wife and daughter at home, was pestered every five minutes, as I had to cut the water to the entire house. But I took the extra time to add unions and inlet and outlet valves. Changing it was a snap and still had cold water, everything fit exactly. Plumbers don't do that with a new installation, but still charge an arm and a leg. But I see on these new homes, just running a plastic garden type hose to the heater.

When doing a project always consider the initial cost, labor in my case is free, and the payback period. Did that last year looking to using a heat pump with a high SEER factor for those many 30*F+ days to save on natural gas costs. Could only estimate the difference between gas and electric costs, but the payback even with free labor was over twenty years. And that is providing the heat pump would even last that long. If it died after a ten year warranty, would be a major loss. So decided against that project.

Damned, if I only had a crystal ball.

Now switching over to a high efficient furnace was a good deal, with the 30% tax rebate, other energy rebates, and my savings in gas cost, payback was less than a year;

Hybrid cars are a bad joke, with the extremely high initial cost, worthless in below 30*F weather, and you can no longer fly up to 50 zillion traffic lights to see any gain in fuel economy. Causing huge environmental damage in Canada that will cost billions to correct, and if that battery goes dead, can't replace a single bad cell, have to replace the whole damned thing, that will definitely set you in a super deep hole.

Solar cells are in the same boat with the present technology. consume more energy to manufacture them then they are capable of producing over their life span. We also live in a world of plenty of BS.

[Vi-Jay 218]

Our little friends, the Nano's, will fix that.

[NickD 202]

Our little friends, the Nano's, will fix that.

Wasn't too long ago we were paying a little over a cent a KWH as all of our power was generated by hydro. But with the massive increase in population, the closure of nuclear power plants, they are rapidly building natural gas plants to produce electrical energy.

At first our city built a coal operated plant, was non-profit, rates didn't increase that much, but the EPA shut them down. Back in the 60's and 70's, electricity was so cheap, many of the homes built at that time used electrical resistance heat. You surely don't want to buy a house like that today at 14 cents at KWH.

Geothermal is becoming somewhat popular, but with DNR regulations have to bury a stainless steel "U" tube at least 75 feet deep and use a heat exchanger, that is kind of costly, at least $25,000 and still requires a heat pump, more expense.

Wind power is supposed to be equal in cost to coal burning plants, but nobody wants to see those things. Don't understand why GE is making the blades in Brazil, the shipping cost is astronomical. Then others are claiming they kill birds, well I am always finding dead birds that were dumb enough to attempt to fly through my windows. Windows should also be outlawed.

DOT is no help, recently built a four lane ten mile expressway with four mercury vapor lamps sucking up a thousand watts every two hundred feet. Brighter at night than in the day time. And yes, you will get a ticket if you don't turn on your headlamps.

Another problem with heat pumps is the EPA is changing their minds every five minutes on what they consider a safe refrigerant. I can't believe they just approved of R-1234yf that is highly flammable for MVAC applications, just a couple of years ago, were dead against HC's for any refrigerant. Their environmentally friendly R-134a is now known to cause global warming. Still can use it, but the price increased from 60 bucks a tank to over 300 now. Any refrigeration system is designed around that base refrigerant, if that refrigerant is changed, your equipment is now obsolete.

Nuclear fusion is definitely a solution, enough deuterium in a gallon of sea water to run a vehicle for years. But while it took no time to develop a thermonuclear bomb, over 60 years as gone by with very little development to harness it power for practical use. Gasoline is not cheap if you add in the cost of wars to get it.

Hydrogen powered vehicles would greatly simplify our automobiles, thousand of dollars of emission equipment can be eliminated. And while proven much safer than gasoline, was outlawed by our congress.

We have over two hundred years of battery development with really not that much improvement, yet they are pushing battery operated vehicles. If you come up with a great idea for energy, can bet your bottom dollar that congress will outlaw it. And we are suppose to be a government for the people, ran by the people. But you only need to know that to pass your civics test.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Only difference carefully comparing the new with the old, 1.25 square feet of additional jacket sheet metal and 0.78 cubic feet of foam that promises to save and extra six therms of gas per year. Would say for that little bit of a change, 150 bucks is indubitably inflation.

The one I had before this 3 1/2 year old one with the same 12 year warranty lasted 18 years. The way they did the paper work, looks like this new one is purchased as a brand new unit with no warranty exchange, so starting from scratch with a fresh. So I can look at it as it cost me 150 bucks for using the old one for 3 1/2 years that isn't too bad.

Gas valve, burner, input BTU rating was exactly the same, could have taken off all those parts for spares, but just wanted to get rid of the darn thing. 3 1/2 years ago, with the wife and daughter at home, was pestered every five minutes, as I had to cut the water to the entire house. But I took the extra time to add unions and inlet and outlet valves. Changing it was a snap and still had cold water, everything fit exactly. Plumbers don't do that with a new installation, but still charge an arm and a leg. But I see on these new homes, just running a plastic garden type hose to the heater.

When doing a project always consider the initial cost, labor in my case is free, and the payback period. Did that last year looking to using a heat pump with a high SEER factor for those many 30*F+ days to save on natural gas costs. Could only estimate the difference between gas and electric costs, but the payback even with free labor was over twenty years. And that is providing the heat pump would even last that long. If it died after a ten year warranty, would be a major loss. So decided against that project.

Damned, if I only had a crystal ball.

Now switching over to a high efficient furnace was a good deal, with the 30% tax rebate, other energy rebates, and my savings in gas cost, payback was less than a year;

Hybrid cars are a bad joke, with the extremely high initial cost, worthless in below 30*F weather, and you can no longer fly up to 50 zillion traffic lights to see any gain in fuel economy. Causing huge environmental damage in Canada that will cost billions to correct, and if that battery goes dead, can't replace a single bad cell, have to replace the whole damned thing, that will definitely set you in a super deep hole.

Solar cells are in the same boat with the present technology. consume more energy to manufacture them then they are capable of producing over their life span. We also live in a world of plenty of BS.

Just curious. Was it made in America (be it Canada, US, or Mexico)?

[NickD 202]

Just curious. Was it made in America (be it Canada, US, or Mexico)?

Assembled in Mexico.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Assembled in Mexico.

Parts from China, I suppose?

[NickD 202]

Parts from China, I suppose?

Heater is made by Rheem, in Montgomery, Alabama, the only exposed component is the gas valve lacking any place of country of origin.

Can tell you this in bidding for components in a million quantity for major US based automotive manufacturers. No big secret here, there is only three. 0.1 cents can make all the difference per unit cost as to whether you get the bid or not. Quality doesn't mean a thing.

Positive, most of this inflated value is due to shipping cost due to the greatly increased price in diesel fuel. Recall when Reagan got power, one of his first moves was to deregulate the shipping industry. Was dealing with a small family based shipping company, very good service, than the big guys came in with drastically lower rates. As our customers were paying that bill, had no choice but to switch or would lose their business. That put thousands of these smaller companies out of business, but after that, these big corporations skyrocketed the rates.

We could probably be competitive now with the high shipping rates from China where we lost a lot of business due to that 0.1 cent difference in price, but would cost millions to set up a new manufacturing company. But still would have to deal with a ton of government agencies that China doesn't. Worse one is the IRS, calling our stock on the shelves profit, not that their actual manufactured value, but at the selling price. Can tell you this, they will not take those components as payment, they want cold hard cash.

Then that huge quarterly check made out to the government for FICA and income taxes, then told how much we had to pay our employees, and could never hire the most qualified people, based on race and sex were the key parameters. Then our emissions, had to be zero to please the EPA and the DNR, then our plant safety with OSHA. Still had to make a profit, or would go bankrupt. Then product liability was added, was constantly called to court, because we had to carry a huge liability policy, and even though our product had nothing to do with a so-called accident, had to defend ourselves.

One thing our idiots running this country can't get through their stupid heads, and I mean our leadership constitutes the worse form of idiots, they cannot tax a buck after it leaves this country.

Actually, I do not feel they are idiots, but true traitors to our country that was once, the greatest manufacturing country in the world. So thanks to them, we have a huge trade deficit and terrible inflation. Its only our government that dictates which countries we can buy or sell to, they determine the tariffs, and ironically, they are charge huge tariffs to our allies, but giving our former enemies tariff free imports. Not sure about now, but the USA was actually paying the Japanese 10% of whatever they exported to us. Very little Americans know about this, and this is a major crime against our country we are expected to defend and die for.

As far as I am concerned, Obama is another traitor and a crook to this country, granted, far more sophisticated and polished guy than the last one, but still a traitor and a crook to our country. And it is our country, as we are the people in it. Just wonder how many of our politicians could pass that USCIS civics test. I enjoyed reading it, just to learn the way this country should be.