Republicans must be capable of believing as many as six impossible things before breakfast

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Health care really isn't treated that way except in a few instances. Most doctors care, but most doctors also have to make a living at the end of the day. They work hard to do so, so what.

You'd rather treat them as slaves though I suppose under control of a masta from the gubmint.

oh and the 'problem' with health care is and always has been government from day one. Not the industry itself.

That's the 10,000 ft wall that you can't get across. Listen to yourself. Are you trying to convince me that all the health care professionals in Europe or Canada are slaves? If you believe that then you're either ridiculous or totally clueless or both.

[Captain Oates 911]

From where did you get the expression "I'm fixin to"?

As far as I know that is a distinct Southern phrase.

various sources

A Beverly Hill Billies

B I worked in and out of Lagrange, Georgia for 12 years

Me " I really like tamla motown - do you ?" Them : "yeah I really like that (N-word) music too"

C Hopalong Cassidy (afore yo time whippersnapper) -'I is a gunnen for you Kincade !

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Chelan County, Washington State is an ocean away from where ?

Marc is an ocean away from non-booz-related sanity.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That's the 10,000 ft wall that you can't get across. Listen to yourself. Are you trying to convince me that all the health care professionals in Europe or Canada are slaves? If you believe that then you're either ridiculous or totally clueless or both.

Inefficiency and control over patients by the government is what you get in the UK & Canada. Hell, you get the government dictating whether or not they will treat people in the UK as well.

Doctors in the UK are greatly underpaid at the end of the day. They make 25-26% less than Doctors in the US. Those doctors in the US also have the ability to get you treated quicker with the proper referrals and don't have to worry about a bureaucratic nightmare most of the time on the private side of things.... The public side of things in the US is a complete other matter and why many doctors drop medicaid and medicare year after year.

[Captain Oates 911]

Inefficiency and control over patients by the government is what you get in the UK & Canada. Hell, you get the government dictating whether or not they will treat people in the UK as well.

Doctors in the UK are greatly underpaid at the end of the day. They make 25-26% less than Doctors in the US. Those doctors in the US also have the ability to get you treated quicker with the proper referrals and don't have to worry about a bureaucratic nightmare most of the time on the private side of things.... The public side of things in the US is a complete other matter and why many doctors drop medicaid and medicare year after year.

I lived under the UK health care system for 2 days short of 60 years and I can can tell you that your hillbilly style stereotypes are total junk

The inner cities are patchy but any decent areas have fantastic new doctor's surgeries (offices) and nobody is turned away. You have swallowed the US health care industry's lies and propaganda so it looks like they spent their money deceiving you about 'over there'

I have already detailed the masses of support and spending that my mother received from age 70 to age 95. She was never rationed and had major operations and spending when she was over 90. She lived in a beautiful local authority retirement home for 20 years - free

There is one thing I know for certain - and that is that you are simply incapable of accepting this and changing your mind because A: It doesn't suit your politics and B: you are brainwashed by the predatory leeches - the US health care companies and C: you will never live there and know how wrong you are

So you will forever live in exploited ignorance like the majority of Americans and all Republicans... I have also spoken to many Canadians and they are both laughing at the American system - and feeling pity for the mugs who are exploited by it

Edited May 27, 2011 by Alan the Red

[B_J 2,752]

I lived under the UK health care system for 2 days short of 60 years and I can can tell you that your hillbilly style stereotypes are total junk

And, of course, you never resort to stereotypes.

[Captain Oates 911]

And, of course, you never resort to stereotypes.

Nothing wrong with stereotypes

To stereotype a bull in a field as dangerous is a very useful and sensible stereotype

It just depends which stereotype our beliefs fit into when deciding whether they are useful or not

Only when our stereotypes are flawed, should we be prepared to allow for the exceptions and I do that often and am pleased to do so

Of course that doesn't fit PC ideas where stereotyping west africans as usually being taller than vietnamese is not seen as valid or allowable

[B_J 2,752]

Nothing wrong with stereotypes

To stereotype a bull in a field as dangerous is a very useful and sensible stereotype

It just depends which stereotype our beliefs fit into when deciding whether they are useful or not

Only when our stereotypes are flawed, should we be prepared to allow for the exceptions and I do that often and am pleased to do so

Of course that doesn't fit PC ideas where stereotyping west africans as usually being taller than vietnamese is not seen as valid or allowable

Fair enough.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Inefficiency and control over patients by the government is what you get in the UK & Canada.

That's a blatant lie. Both the UK and the Canadian health care system produce better overall outcomes for the population of these countries than the US and both do it at a fraction of the cost. They get more for less. That, my friend, points to more - not less - efficiency.

[Captain Oates 911]

That's a blatant lie. Both the UK and the Canadian health care system produce better overall outcomes for the population of these countries than the US and both do it at a fraction of the cost. They get more for less. That, my friend, points to more - not less - efficiency.

But you can't reason with a belief that wasn't reasoned in there in the first place

For Paul, ANYTHING in the USA will ALWAYS be better than ANYTHING, ANYWHERE else and to admit otherwise would be unpatriotic verging on treason

I am not like that - for instance I freely admit that there are climates in the USA which are to be preferred to Darwen Lancashire which is the cess pit of the first world and where we had a rented house for 10 months before coming here.

As far as health systems are concerned, I have no direct experience of France (which stops me pronouncing on it like.. ) but reports are that it is superb with 4 times as many doctors to patients than the UK. The doctors are sat there waiting for patients to come in. A bit like Les Schwab tire services in the North West

So, the question is, how does one convert the minds of the American right wingers to bring them to an objective comparison of the various country's health systems - given that their minds are closed by patriotism, brain washing and a stubborn refusal to believe that the USA is not first in everything everywhere ?

The answer must be that we can't and we are wasting pixels trying to

10% of them will meet misfortune and lose their houses and money and be bankrupted and perhaps watch their relatives or themselves die of a $700,000 disease that they can't pay for. They may then make a deathbed conversion to socialized medicine but it will be too late. The other 90% of right wingers will cling to god, guns and the present health system and get away with it.

The essence of right wingerism is 'I'm all right Jack and the devil take the hindermost'

It works for the 90% and they don't care about the 10% - but they live in fear that they might be the 10% - like Wildebeeste in a herd when the lions turn up. Rather than everyone living in fear, wouldnt it be better for the whole herd to join together to come up with a system to protect them ALL against the lions ?

Edited May 27, 2011 by Alan the Red

[slim 1,531]

That's a blatant lie. Both the UK and the Canadian health care system produce better overall outcomes for the population of these countries than the US and both do it at a fraction of the cost. They get more for less. That, my friend, points to more - not less - efficiency.

Canada - 34,000,000 people.

UK - 62,000,000 people.

Taken together (and even adding Australia in there as well) we're still over three times as populous. I wish it would be "three times bigger equals three times the money" but it doesn't. When the government is involved in something, an increase in number of people equals an exponential increase in cost.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Canada - 34,000,000 people.

UK - 62,000,000 people.

Taken together (and even adding Australia in there as well) we're still over three times as populous. I wish it would be "three times bigger equals three times the money" but it doesn't. When the government is involved in something, an increase in number of people equals an exponential increase in cost.

Really? There are less people living in Canada and the UK than in the US? Man, I am so glad you pointed that out. Certainly, I would not have known this had you not brought my attention to it. [/sarcasm]

Honestly, though, can you be any lamer than that? They pay less per capita and relative to their GDP. They pay less not because they have a smaller population but because their health care systems are far more efficient that the joke of health care system that we are dealing with. It really ain't that hard to grasp.

As for the claim that with government involvement cost rise exponentially with larger populations, that would then mean that the UK would have a larger per capita expense than Canada, correct? And Germany a larger cost than Norway? Unfortunately for your assumption, neither is the case. Reality is b!tch! Nice try, though.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Captain Oates 911]

Really? There are less people living in Canada and the UK than in the US? Man, I am so glad you pointed that out. Certainly, I would not have known this had you not brought my attention to it. [/sarcasm]

Honestly, though, can you be any lamer than that? They pay less per capita and relative to their GDP. They pay less not because they have a smaller population but because their health care systems are far more efficient that the joke of health care system that we are dealing with. It really ain't that hard to grasp.

I used to use Canada as a knocking shop while I was waiting for my K1 visa and not allowed to enter the US. I used to nip over for a long weekend or two with a week in between. I spent a lot of time hanging around Toronto and talking to Canadians

When the subject of the US came up, they ducked their heads and were embarrassed about what their health system was like compared to the 'poor citizens ' next door in the US

They actually felt bad at having it so good compared to their neighbors

I spoke to bus drivers and illegals and bar flies and all sorts of Canadians and the story was always the same.

They were embarrassed - and very relieved they didn't live in the US and were thereby subjected to all the indignities if one fell sick when one had lost insurance or still had insurance which refused to pay out

Inner city NHS in the UK can be grotty, especially when one is in the waiting room with 50 Afghans, many of whom have rickets legs and boils and all sorts of nasty afflictions after years living in the tora bora, - and non of whom speak English; but away from the inner city, the UK NHS can be VERY nice.

eg Harrogate hospital where my best pal works voluntary every day :

"Come in sit down I will bring a doctor to you, have a cup of tea and a biscuit - there is no charge."

"Does it matter that I don't live in this are ? Not at all sir, we look after everyone"

They dont employ people to stand at the door and say " Have a wonderful day" as you leave. They do here in Washington State and guess who pays for that !

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Marc is an ocean away from non-booz-related sanity.

Do you know what the definition of insanity is? Its when you repeat yourself over and over again expecting a different result.You should know that based on real life experience.

[The Dude 206]

Do you know what the definition of insanity is? Its when you repeat yourself over and over again expecting a different result.You should know that based on real life experience.