Republicans must be capable of believing as many as six impossible things before breakfast

[wshc 46]

If health care were single payer, that would essentially be Medicare for all. Why would you need vouchers in a single payer scheme? I don't understand that question.

The Medicare proposals are not set to kick in right away. The President's sponsored health care system will kick in soon (2014). I thought that the new system was supposed to protect health care users from the practices that the new Medicare Plan is going to bring with it in 2022 when it kicks in for people that are 55 now.

So the question is simple. If the new health care system (which will be single payer very soon if the President is reelected) then why the panic about Ryan's Medicare Plan? You just said that single payer healthcare is Medicare for all, so where is the problem? You will get what you want after all when single payer kicks in, and it will because the Obama Administration will see to it that no private insurance company will be able to stay in business leaving a gap for another effective Government Agency. (Just as good as USCIS / DHS I am sure.)

Is there really a problem or just a chance to make an issue to further the class warfare the Democrats are so good at? And I bet you don't even realize how they are using you.

[^_^ 5,021]

nm

Edited May 26, 2011 by \

[Danno 1,228]

I had a tiny blob on my ear that was removed two years ago. Last year they asked me to come in and they looked at my ear and said fine. I got a bill for $175 and I was in there less than 30 seconds. I got a letter today and they want to do it again. I bet they do.

Once they get a chance they will milk you to the max. I spent $2k on dentists in the last month and it was elective and they conned me into it. He wants to replace my crowns at $1200 a go as they have 'been there a while'

I have refused to do more as the crowns are fine. The dentists especially are simply predatory.

I suspect that much of Medicare is unnecessary stuff that the hospitals are conning people into in order to run up scandalous bills. Then add fraud and voilà - the most expensive system in the world that does not give the best results.

The US has gotten itself into a mess by not curbing all the legal and illegal abuse of the medical system

Do you have dental coverage?

Of course they milk you.

[Captain Oates 911]

The Medicare proposals are not set to kick in right away. The President's sponsored health care system will kick in soon (2014). I thought that the new system was supposed to protect health care users from the practices that the new Medicare Plan is going to bring with it in 2022 when it kicks in for people that are 55 now.

So the question is simple. If the new health care system (which will be single payer very soon if the President is reelected) then why the panic about Ryan's Medicare Plan? You just said that single payer healthcare is Medicare for all, so where is the problem? You will get what you want after all when single payer kicks in, and it will because the Obama Administration will see to it that no private insurance company will be able to stay in business leaving a gap for another effective Government Agency. (Just as good as USCIS / DHS I am sure.)

Is there really a problem or just a chance to make an issue to further the class warfare the Democrats are so good at? And I bet you don't even realize how they are using you.

All the developed world has socialized medicine

The citizens all love it

What is it about the US that they alone in the world have to have system designed to make money out of the misfortune of the sick ?

If the US system has advantages, why aren't the citizens of every other first world country crying out to change to it ?

The opposite is the case and they would be horrified to go to the US system

They don't see it as this ogre government running their lives - they relate to their doctors and not the government

What is it that the unwise population of Europe (450 million people) have missed ?

I think the American's distrust and hatred of their own government and the tradition of carrying guns to kill their own government is behind the hatred of their own government when it comes to socialized medicine.

It is then ironic that if an outsider were to criticize their government, these ardent enemies of government would instantly fight to the death to protect it against the loathed furriners

It's quite funny in a way but there is one thing I do know - if the Americans ever get socialized medicine, they wil never ever let it go - just as no other citizenry will ever let it go

It's like allowing women to drive - you can't change your mind a few years later - it's a one way process because once people have it - they LOVE IT

[wshc 46]

All the developed world has socialized medicine

It is difficult to compare the European health care systems with what the US sees socialized health care to be. Here is disclaimer first. (I was in the German Health Care system for over 18 years, so that is the only experience I have with European Health Care. It was not free as so many Americans think European Health Care is. It was on average 14% of gross income. That is a good chunk of your pay. We were generally very healthy, so there is no doubt we paid in much more than we ever used from the system. It was good to know that if one of the kids got hurt at a soccer game or something they were covered with no large additional payment. Dental was a different matter though, and with kids we had some very large dental co-payments, although this was part of the Medical Coverage also.)

There are a few fundamental differences between the US and European system that are often over looked or unknown, but need to be considered when deciding the best system to have for the US -

- Europeans are not bombarded with massive advertising campaigns telling them how sick they are and how a certain prescription will cure them.

- There is not a pool of millions of professional benefits gatherers in Europe as there is in the US. The "you owe me something" crowd is not as large in Europe as it is in the USA. It may be growing in Europe, but it will be a while before it is a major factor as it is in the USA.

- Doctors are not paid directly by patients in Germany in most cases. Doctors can't set their rates as they can in the USA. There is not such a financial incentive to con patients in Germany as there is here.

- I seldom saw health care used as a political football in Germany. All serious political parties just accepted that it was a part of life, a cost of doing business so they lived with it.

- Health Coverage was not mandatory. If you were self employed you could opt out. Anyone that was an employee was covered, just as anyone on the dole or other assistance programs.

- Healthcare was transportable. No big discussion, just an accepted procedure that was not questioned or discussed. Pre-existing conditions were not grounds for coverage denial in Germany. Actually, no one could be denied. I never saw as many people on oxygen as I have seen here in the USA.

- Over the counter medications were few and far between, as well as very expensive. This had the effect of forcing people to see doctors just to get a strong cough syrup, which had the side effect of having a doctor check you out to make sure you didn't have something more serious.

- The point of all this is simple. A copy of a European Health System would not be suitable for the US imho. The US needs serious reform of its health care system. The last attempt was just not quite fine tuned enough I am afraid.

Edited May 26, 2011 by wshc

[Captain Oates 911]

yes the costs in the US need to be reduced

Take out:

Over prescribing/over treatment

Profit

Admin

Most people in the US are totally brainwashed by the US health industry about what is available elsewhere

They actually believe that people over 60 are left to die in the UK or given an aspirin and told to go away

My mother had many operations of all different kinds

At age 91 she had a benign tumor (loaf sized) removed and a full hysterectomy and then broke her leg the next year - then her arm

She lived in a beautiful local authority care home

25 years of superb care and treatment to age 95 - and not one single penny did it cost her

Americans cannot believe this story as it goes against all they have been told and sold. They don't believe me when I tell this story.

I can resume my UK residency tomorrow and have all these benefits at zero cost and with no enrollments or paperwork etc etc

If Americans knew the truth there would be another revolution here

All Americans should have the same health security as I enjoy right now. They have more weapons than all the rest of the world put together but can't treat granny ?

Priorities !

Edited May 26, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Danno 1,228]

All the developed world has socialized medicine

The citizens all love it

What is it about the US that they alone in the world have to have system designed to make money out of the misfortune of the sick ?

If the US system has advantages, why aren't the citizens of every other first world country crying out to change to it ?

The opposite is the case and they would be horrified to go to the US system

They don't see it as this ogre government running their lives - they relate to their doctors and not the government

What is it that the unwise population of Europe (450 million people) have missed ?

I think the American's distrust and hatred of their own government and the tradition of carrying guns to kill their own government is behind the hatred of their own government when it comes to socialized medicine.

It is then ironic that if an outsider were to criticize their government, these ardent enemies of government would instantly fight to the death to protect it against the loathed furriners

It's quite funny in a way but there is one thing I do know - if the Americans ever get socialized medicine, they wil never ever let it go - just as no other citizenry will ever let it go

It's like allowing women to drive - you can't change your mind a few years later - it's a one way process because once people have it - they LOVE IT

Thats how it is with freebees, when you get used to someone else paying for your food, housing or parking place, ... you never want to go back.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

someone asked Chris Christie for his views on evolution vs. creationism. "That's none of your business," the New Jersey governor barked in response.

This minor incident, which barely rated as news for a few political blogs, offers a glimpse of Christie's personality, which seems increasingly grumpy and snappish. But it says even more about the current state of the national Republican Party, where magical thinking trumps rationality, and even to acknowledge basic realities about the world we live in runs the risk of damaging one's political future.

So Christie answers a stupid question with "none of your business" then the writer can use his clairvoyance to tell what mood Christie's in. Then sag-way into the state of the republican party. Oh yeah. Im barking ruf ruff. Silly fckin Libs.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Unions suck

[wshc 46]

yes the costs in the US need to be reduced

Take out:

Over prescribing/over treatment

Profit

Admin

Most people in the US are totally brainwashed by the US health industry about what is available elsewhere

They actually believe that people over 60 are left to die in the UK or given an aspirin and told to go away

My mother had many operations of all different kinds

At age 91 she had a benign tumor (loaf sized) removed and a full hysterectomy and then broke her leg the next year - then her arm

She lived in a beautiful local authority care home

25 years of superb care and treatment to age 95 - and not one single penny did it cost her

Americans cannot believe this story as it goes against all they have been told and sold. They don't believe me when I tell this story.

I can resume my UK residency tomorrow and have all these benefits at zero cost and with no enrollments or paperwork etc etc

If Americans knew the truth there would be another revolution here

All Americans should have the same health security as I enjoy right now. They have more weapons than all the rest of the world put together but can't treat granny ?

Priorities !

That would be nice, but it will never happen here. Just as Soccer (football) will never really catch on here in the US - the idea of single payer health care will never be peacefully implemented here as long as the fundamental changes in the US health system that you and I mentioned are not managed first. People will never accept mandatory participation and no one will like high premiums when they see the number of social beneficiaries there will be in the US.

As a proud patriotic right wing nut American, I think American can do anything that it set's it mind to do. So I just wish that attitudes and perceptions of what a health care system could be would change so that American Ingenuity would get to work to provide Americans with a top class system. But again, I can't picture government doing it correctly. The German system is not controlled by the government so that is why it might somewhat work. It is quasi government, but not directly a part of the government.

[Captain Oates 911]

Thats how it is with freebees, when you get used to someone else paying for your food, housing or parking place, ... you never want to go back.

You don't get it - we all pay for each other and we all end up paying less

It's like not having your own highway or your own sewer - pooling that need with others makes it cheaper

You are cheating yourself by being so scared that you might do something for someone

It's ironic that the most atheist country in Europe (Sweden ) is also the one where people are willing to help each other for the benefit of all - the common good - whereas the most religious in the developed world - the USA - wouldn't stop to pee on their neighbor if they were on fire

That is an inconsistency which is invisible to right wing Americans

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

You don't get it - we all pay for each other and we all end up paying less

It's like not having your own highway or your own sewer - pooling that need with others makes it cheaper

You are cheating yourself by being so scared that you might do something for someone

It's ironic that the most atheist country in Europe (Sweden ) is also the one where people are willing to help each other for the benefit of all - the common good - whereas the most religious in the developed world - the USA - wouldn't stop to pee on their neighbor if they were on fire

That is an inconsistency which is invisible to right wing Americans

Really? We? How does a homeless person contribute?

[^_^ 5,021]

Really? We? How does a homeless person contribute?

So that's the problem? You resent helping the needy?

[Captain Oates 911]

Really? We? How does a homeless person contribute?

What would you do to them ? What would Jesus do to them ? They are human you know.

Your answer will be most revealing..

Anyway, they might be in a good job 10 years from now and you might be paralyzed and bankrupt. If we all decided to help each other, we wouldn't need to worry about it

People here are terrified about helping the homeless or gays or blacks or illegals - the rest of the world knows that and it is a stain on the character of the USA that they deliberately allow the weak and the sick and the uneducated to rot in their situations.

Then they go to church and make out they are followers of Jesus after they treat their fellow human like that. Shudder.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

So that's the problem? You resent helping the needy?

No,I resent helping ppl that dont or wont help themselves. Then have some dumb ####### pres. Take it and give to them for votes.

[wshc 46]

So that's the problem? You resent helping the needy?

The needy deserve help. I see dozens of homeless people every day. Some are crazy and need help. Some are handicapped and need help. Some look lost or transient and need help and direction. Some look like they just need a job and a break. I say a young family with two little kids today that would break any ones heart.

But there are also so many that make their own problems. They are so covered with piercings and tattoos that they will never be employable unless it is a very charitable organization. I hear them talk on the bus all the time. (Sometimes very loudly.) Some of the attitudes and perceptions would make you sick.

Nobody resents helping the needy. Nobody wants to be used by an able bodied person though that should help themselves but don't for whatever reason, usually because it is easier to get a handout than to get a job.

And yes, I help them out but I ask for no recognition or tax deduction for it. As a right wing nut, I too even have a heart.

Edited May 26, 2011 by wshc