Why do the ring wing love Israel ?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I shall call you Gingrich.

THAT is a TOS violation!

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

what is the ring wing anyways?

[scandal 951]

been busy at work for a change and then we have a storm rolling through tonight, so internet is iffy.

Stay safe. Give Nessa and Ben my best.

[Captain Oates 911]

The same guy, harold camp. He said his math was off by 5 months.

You do tend to speak in stereotypes occasionally, though I think you do it to make your point contrast more. Anyway I don't think your a racist or a Nazi.

That is so kind of you. The good people don't speak up often enough on here - so much finger pointing and epithets and easy slurs

So little reasoned argument on the subject of the thread

I have concluded that it is IMPOSSIBLE to debate US/Israel politics on the internet without someone mentioning Hitler in order to close it down - and that is a shame because I have known many jews who have the mental horsepower and love to debate on the issue without going for the easy exit every time

ok well I guess that's as far as we can get with it as we are bogged down

[Captain Oates 911]

what is the ring wing anyways?

Typo - imagine ring finger right hand - the right wing disappeared after shoving granny off the cliff so I guess right wing politics have gone away now

Doesn't worry me - I have the right to unlimited free health care for life - zero annual limit - zero condition limit - no co pay - no deductible - no premiums - no paperwork

Actually they have that in Israel too - they can afford it coz they don't pay for their own air force

Edited May 25, 2011 by Alan the Red

[wshc 46]

The right wing probably does not love Israel, but we have an open minded respect for a country that has done so well in their short existence as a country. (They have been a nation for thousands of years, and a country since 1948 this time around.)Take agriculture for example. What other countries with a similar climate and landscape have been so successful at it. Engineering and IT? Finance, and I don't mean that in a negative way.

As a right wing nut (as the always perfect left would call me), I have respect for any country that has similar values, a similar work ethic, similar democracy and respect for the rule of law. That is the type of country that becomes an ally, a true ally just as England has been. Israel as a country appears to share several values that right wing nuts simply also value. Birds of a feather flock together as one would say, and one value that us wing nuts have respect for is Israel’s determination not to compromise in to oblivion. Israel is determined to defend herself against its well known enemies whose official policy is to destroy Israel. It is a known fact that the US contributes direct foreign aid of over 3 billion USD's annually to Israel, but that is a strategic investment in to the defense of the USA also. Just as Europe was used a buffer zone during the Cold War, Israel is a landing pad the US could use in a real Middle East emergency, such as nuclear provocations from Iran. Yes, Iraq is available now for such purposes as well as Afghanistan possibly or other middle eastern countries that we are friendly with, but Israel is the only country in the area that could be counted on %100 to be on our side and not sell out to the highest bidder as so many countries around the world have been known to do to us.

I hope that helps to explain to you why the "right wing" seems to support Isreal beyond what is common practice. I don't think there is any hidden agenda or super strong lobby anywhere, just a strong mutual respect between the countries based on a strong set of common values.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I hope that helps to explain to you why the "right wing" seems to support Isreal beyond what is common practice. I don't think there is any hidden agenda or super strong lobby anywhere, just a strong mutual respect between the countries based on a strong set of common values.

There's too much mythology in that hackneyed explanation for this right winger. Sounds too much like the conservative company line.

[wshc 46]

There's too much mythology in that hackneyed explanation for this right winger. Sounds too much like the conservative company line.

You are correct. It is the conservative line. So? Should Republicans say one thing as the company line but then do something else in reality? I think it is possible to say one thing as the company line, then try your best to live up to it. Not say one thing then do something different.

The question was why do Republicans support Israel? So the answer could easily be- “that is just the way Republicans are”. That is such a simple answer that most people might not agree or understand it. One may try and find some hidden reason, such as a hidden secret lobby group that has all the goods on all of the Republicans and are extracting all of this money and support from the Republicans in exchange for silence on the truth. There may be kickbacks coming from Israel to Republicans as payment for their support, under the table of course through secret Swiss bank accounts. It could also be something as simple as the Republicans are doing what they thing are the right thing to do and supporting a friend in Israel. Not everything has to be for a sinister, self serving reason. If that is mythology to you, then so be it.

You may not understand this, but doing the right thing even when there is no personal gain is embedded in so many people in this world, and in so many people in this country of all political persuasions. Unfortunately a lot of people have not developed an understanding of this characteristic or an understanding of the sincerity of that giving.

[Golden Gate 530]

People all have a different opinion on what is right

[Captain Oates 911]

The right wing probably does not love Israel, but we have an open minded respect for a country that has done so well in their short existence as a country. (They have been a nation for thousands of years, and a country since 1948 this time around.)Take agriculture for example. What other countries with a similar climate and landscape have been so successful at it. Engineering and IT? Finance, and I don't mean that in a negative way.

As a right wing nut (as the always perfect left would call me), I have respect for any country that has similar values, a similar work ethic, similar democracy and respect for the rule of law. That is the type of country that becomes an ally, a true ally just as England has been. Israel as a country appears to share several values that right wing nuts simply also value. Birds of a feather flock together as one would say, and one value that us wing nuts have respect for is Israel’s determination not to compromise in to oblivion. Israel is determined to defend herself against its well known enemies whose official policy is to destroy Israel. It is a known fact that the US contributes direct foreign aid of over 3 billion USD's annually to Israel, but that is a strategic investment in to the defense of the USA also. Just as Europe was used a buffer zone during the Cold War, Israel is a landing pad the US could use in a real Middle East emergency, such as nuclear provocations from Iran. Yes, Iraq is available now for such purposes as well as Afghanistan possibly or other middle eastern countries that we are friendly with, but Israel is the only country in the area that could be counted on %100 to be on our side and not sell out to the highest bidder as so many countries around the world have been known to do to us.

I hope that helps to explain to you why the "right wing" seems to support Isreal beyond what is common practice. I don't think there is any hidden agenda or super strong lobby anywhere, just a strong mutual respect between the countries based on a strong set of common values.

That is a very clear and rational post - would that they all were

I can see your rationale that has a mixture of the practical (a forward base) and the promotion of shared values as reasons for the incredibly tight bond

However, US capabilities do not need an 'unsinkable aircraft carrier' as Britain was described in the second world war, and there are many countries with shared Democratic values such as Brazil and South Africa and very many more, who do not enjoy the same relationship

So while I don't totally discount the strategic argument and the values argument, I think the strength of the Israeli lobby in the US is underplayed. It would be good to explore that but the defensiveness and paranoia of that lobby makes it difficult.

As far as shared values are concerned, why does the US have an extradition treaty with Britain, but not with Israel ? How can these things be discussed without Austrians being tossed into the discussion at an early stage ?

If the shared values argument really is paramount, wouldn't Jews with Israel's interests at heart, be better off allowing discussions that brought that point out, rather than seeking to shut down discussion by nazi calling - which only drives the suspicion of Israel's opponents underground and thereby perpetuates it ?

I think your arguments on shared values and a strategic base does have value and I think the Israeli lobby point is valid too - I am not sure of the relative weighting of these factors yet

I suspect that the Israeli right wing will be forced by Arab demographics to soften their approach - and the American right will immediately endorse whatever direction is taken. Fortunately, I know that there is a very strong Israeli liberal movement, and I feel more at one with them

[Captain Oates 911]

You may not understand this, but doing the right thing even when there is no personal gain is embedded in so many people in this world, and in so many people in this country of all political persuasions. Unfortunately a lot of people have not developed an understanding of this characteristic or an understanding of the sincerity of that giving.

I will go with that as far as the general populations are concerned, however politicians generally (If I might stereotype) have shown themselves to go whichever way the wind blows - and it is they who cause the more imaginative to come up with all the conspiracy theories, which I don't go along with.

Hitler finally thought that the German people were not worthy of him - I think the opposite and that the generally benign populations don't deserve the unprincipled politicians with which we are afflicted

I acknowledge that people hold right wing views sincerely even though I deplore their choices that granny should go off the cliff if the budget needs balancing. That is a value choice that separates the right from the left and people sometimes change their values if they think about the issues long enough. It is said that people veer right as they get older but when their own Medicare is threatened, they re-align in their own interests and not in the interests of granny next door

Eventually they might realise that we are all granny or grandad next door and that is a left wing thought

[wshc 46]

I will go with that as far as the general populations are concerned, however politicians generally (If I might stereotype) have shown themselves to go whichever way the wind blows - and it is they who cause the more imaginative to come up with all the conspiracy theories, which I don't go along with.

Hitler finally thought that the German people were not worthy of him - I think the opposite and that the generally benign populations don't deserve the unprincipled politicians with which we are afflicted

I acknowledge that people hold right wing views sincerely even though I deplore their choices that granny should go off the cliff if the budget needs balancing. That is a value choice that separates the right from the left and people sometimes change their values if they think about the issues long enough. It is said that people veer right as they get older but when their own Medicare is threatened, they re-align in their own interests and not in the interests of granny next door

Eventually they might realise that we are all granny or grandad next door and that is a left wing thought

I totally agree with you that most people in the general population are good people be they left or right wingers. They have beliefs either direction and I have respect for those beliefs even if I don't agree with them. A large number of politicians are very wishy washy and do seem to change with the opinion polls. I don't think that either party wants to bring harm upon citizens, so the common call from the left that Republicans want to kill off seniors or wipe out minorities or pollute the world with no control just doesn't do anything to me except irritate me.

Unfortunately I have not had the time to study the recent proposals about Medicare so I speak from ignorance, but I don't believe the sound bites about Republicans wanting to kill off seniors. BTW.. I never believed the claim that the President's health care legislation was going to create death squads to see which seniors had to die by not receiving treatment.

In other words, the sound bites have an extremely small amount of truth to them, but are mainly just the Chicken Little “sky is falling” kind of rhetoric. So what I am trying to say, the proposals from both parties need to be seriously reviewed, modified as needed or desired by the people, and acted upon either approving or rejecting the proposal. All emotions or hype in such decisions needs to be avoided I feel so that the best solutions for the defined problems can be reached. If this requires bipartisan actions, then that should be taken. I am tired of politicians on both sides using every issue as a chance to try and gain voters or supporters at the expense of the common good. I am tired of voters not thinking things through and believing every sound bite they hear from all political arenas.

And so true what you say, one day we are all old people next door so the decisions made today will effect us all one day, so care needs to be taken.

[Danno 1,228]

I will go with that as far as the general populations are concerned, however politicians generally (If I might stereotype) have shown themselves to go whichever way the wind blows - and it is they who cause the more imaginative to come up with all the conspiracy theories, which I don't go along with.

Hitler finally thought that the German people were not worthy of him - I think the opposite and that the generally benign populations don't deserve the unprincipled politicians with which we are afflicted

I acknowledge that people hold right wing views sincerely even though I deplore their choices that granny should go off the cliff if the budget needs balancing. That is a value choice that separates the right from the left and people sometimes change their values if they think about the issues long enough. It is said that people veer right as they get older but when their own Medicare is threatened, they re-align in their own interests and not in the interests of granny next door

Eventually they might realise that we are all granny or grandad next door and that is a left wing thought, THAT WE ALL NEED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO CARE FOR OURSELVES, AS WE ARE NOT ABLE IN THESE LATEST GENERATIONS TO DO SO OURSELVES.

Let me finish your thought if I may...

[Captain Oates 911]

Let me finish your thought if I may...

One day you may be weak and frightened and sick and alone and unable to look after yourself - perhaps a child or another relative from your family. Perhaps you will be bankrupt and very poor

It is then that you will value society coming to your aid in the same way that the fire service or the police come to help you - both public service and publicly funded organizations

I have a ton of money and a backstop in that the UK will always care for me free of charge and the government guarantees my 3 pensions 100% -but I also have an imagination of the way that life can turn

Right wingers cannot imagine being weak and helpless and in need themselves and that is their big mistake because we are all a minute away from that

Right wingers care for nobody but themselves and they are proud of it - for now

Edited May 25, 2011 by Alan the Red

[wshc 46]

Right wingers cannot imagine being weak and helpless and in need themselves and that is their big mistake because we are all a minute away from that

Right wingers care for nobody but themselves and they are proud of it - for now

I can't speak for all right wingers of course, but as a right winger I understand what being weak and helpless is like. I have been through that and pulled myself up with hard work and determination. I think all people care for other people, even if you don't see it on display on a daily basis. There is often a fundamental difference on HOW to help other people, but the goal of helping other people is often the same.

After my experiences with the US Government, most recently with the USCIS/NVC and their incompetence that has separated me from my wife of 27 years for over a year now; I have very little faith that Government can cure problems of society.

.