The state of the ME/NA forum

[sarah and hicham 3]

I agree with you SZSZ. Just forget trying to make it so that no one is hurt. Things are taken wayyy too persoanlly here we can't please everyone.

Not everyone posts attacks or offensive things but if it happens, then don't take part which most of you are capable of doing. So then just ignore it! If it's too much for you just don't look, don't respond. I don't think we need a thread to remind us how silly some people have been recently. What purpose does that serve? It's not going to stop and I am pretty sure that this thread is not going to change anything in the long run. I have been personally insulted a couple of times, and yes I have responded because I have the right to stand up for myself. One person might see it and ignore it, and that's fine, but that's not how I respond to things like that. We are all different and we are not always going to agree.

That's it!

Sarah

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Ameen! Not everyone is going to like you or everything you say. Hasn't happened yet, not to Abraham, Jesus or Muhammad, and not to any of us, and never will. That's life, grow up, get over it.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Ameen! Not everyone is going to like you or everything you say. Hasn't happened yet, not to Abraham, Jesus or Muhammad, and not to any of us, and never will. That's life, grow up, get over it.

Yep!

It kills me to see people taking things so personally sometimes when really they have no idea if something was aimed at them. If you can't handle it then don't read it, don't respond, and forget about it.

[hurriya 0]

It is always so amazing to me the types and levels of interaction that I observe when I come here. I have been in Morocco almost a month now, and though I do not get to read daily, it's almost like a telenovela. I may miss a few days, and the characters may change (or not) but I can always bet on the plot to be pretty near the same and I can pick up. But the sad part is, though so much of my life is diferent now (ie. my day to day activities, standard of living, etc) this forum is my only mainstay.

I must say that I am more happy now that I made the choice to join my husband here, for my life is SO much simpler and more peaceful. My family can't just pop by whenever they choose, I'm debt-free and yet want for nothing, so much of the stresses of my previous life in the US seem only a memory and I like it that way. But more than anything, I want (really need) the support and camaraderie that I once had here. I'm not sure if I ever pushed anyone's buttons here, I sincerely hope not. Like shon, just_waiting and others I really want the sharing, encouragement and "girl time" back.

[Bosco 1]

I don't speak for Jean but I don't think she expects everyone to play nice. I think what has become particularly distasteful about this forum is the personal attacks, revealing of personal information, the name calling, and childish bickering rather than debate.

The moving finger writes and having writ, moves on. Not all your piety nor wit can call it back to cancel half a line, nor all your tears wipe out one word of it. From The Rubiyat of Omar Khayaam

i'm sure a few of you will barf that i've mentioned szsz as being worthy of respect.

I'm sure there will be too, but I've been spat on, shot at, jailed, and worse, so a little lip from someone on the net doesn't faze me at all. Personally, other than outsiders coming here to start trouble, I think that what adds to the tensions is how some folks like to dish it out, but don't like to take it. I can take it, I don't run from conflict, so I make no apologies for defending Islam or my own character when need be. I have no doubt that there are some who dislike me for that, but that's their problem, not mine.

As for the subject of trying to get everyone to be nice, forget it. There are cheering sections, and I have noticed that no matter how assinine a comment someone may make, there seems to always be someone who seconds it coz it's their buddy who says it. Frankly, I've lived long enough to know that one person's "not nice" is another's "simple, inpersonal statement of fact", and no more.

It's amazing how quickly some take personal offense to just about anything and expect you to acquiese to their unreasonable demands to stop the discussion because it bothers them rather than walking away if they dont want to participate. I even started a thread about that. There is a limit to taking responsibility for how another person interprets your statement or how easily their feelings are hurt. At some point, the responsibility is theirs for how they CHOOSE to react.

Not all of us post the same way or for the same reasons. Some of us like substance and others prefer niceities. And, yes, there is a lack of debating skills that those of us who like substance cannot be responsible for when a participant is lacking them. There is an old adage in law that when the facts are against you, argue the law; when the law's against you, argue the facts; when there both against you, just yell like hell! There's a lot of yelling like hell in the debates because some of us run out of substance but are loathe to let go.

Each of us indeed must take responsibility for what we post, but we also need to take responsibility for what we read.

"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what we are told. Religious dogma is doing what we are told, no matter what is right."

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't speak for Jean but I don't think she expects everyone to play nice. I think what has become particularly distasteful about this forum is the personal attacks, revealing of personal information, the name calling, and childish bickering rather than debate.

99% of the time, I have no idea what anyone is talking about when the subject is who did what to whom. I don't seem to be able to escape the conflict between Shannon and Icey, as it is popping up all over, but what happened to Jean, I totally missed.

Edited September 10, 2006 by szsz

[Together4ever 1]

I simply stated people are fed up with the personal attacks. Heated debate is enjoyable. Insulting someone on a personal level in a public forum and dragging each other's dirty laundry around is not. Many on this forum have written to me in the last few weeks and the united complaint is exactly that. It's undermining the purpose of this website, against the TOS, and really gums the search engine with useless information.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Not to mention the credibility of VJ.

Jean, where are those pliers? I think i can see my house from up here.......

[Becky&Sam 0]

I have not really posted in this forum since I joined VJ for all of the very reasons that have been stated in this thread.

I know one thing for sure and it is the main thing that first attracted me to Sam ( we both had this posted in the personal info on Yahoo), if you live your life by this statement-that no matter what cultural, religous or any other background you come from you will not do harm to others. "Treat everyone that comes into your life as you want to be treated."

[myfellah 0]

I think it is wonderful that you started this thread. I have doubts it might help but what can it hurt. I am one of those that have been around for a long time. I received such wonderful advice when I found VJ. I have stuck around hoping that maybe I could help when needed. I come away most times very disappointed in what has happened here. I know things change but it doesn't have to be for the worse. There are so many people that still need help and support. If you want drama and thrive on such a thing, can't it be taken elsewhere. Many people will never learn to ignore things they just have to keep feeding it. Ok, I'll stop. I just had to respond to something that is positive. Nice, very nice!!! If such a thing could continue, imagine how many new people (and older members too) would be inspired and helped not discouraged and made afraid to ask for assistance.

Doreen

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Page 6 and no flame war

The betting is officially closed. All monies will be refunded.

Maybe next time

[Together4ever 1]

For Gupt...

[sarah and hicham 3]

Well Jean, either way it seems like you're feeling better so yay for that!

[Veiled Princess 1]

It kills me to see people taking things so personally sometimes when really they have no idea if something was aimed at them. If you can't handle it then don't read it, don't respond, and forget about it.

You mean like pointing out how obvious someone's statement was when no names were mentioned?

[Together4ever 1]

Far more important, I think we are all feeling better. It wasn't about me. It's about this remarkable group of women. I mean seriously, what a group of special people.

Life is really about about walking the talk. We post about beliefs endlessly here it seems... whether its religious or not... but really words are like smoke when it comes to life. But deeds, the vehicle of those words and actions, are the true testament of our beliefs and who we are.

I've seen some beautiful deeds in the last few days, both on this forum and privately that just take my breath away. Again I have to say, what an incredible group of women you really are. This visa process causes huges tides of emotions, anxieties and frustrations to move through each of us. None of us are exempt for that. It causes us to do and say things we may never do otherwise. I think each of us intrinsically knows this. The real test of character comes in how you handle the situation or its aftermath.

I want to say, and I hope I'm not overstepping myself, that jordanianprincess has displayed privately a tremendous amount of grace and character and to her I'm grateful and I'm hopeful to see her post here.

Face it, this may be our proving grounds. We are taking men from the ME/NA as our life partners to live in a country where they are not well accepted by some in our society at this time in our history. Some already have them here, some are waiting. But you know there are going to be times of pain and confrontation because of this. If we learn how to handle ourselves here with character and dignity, we will be better equipped to deal with what we face in the future.

for each of you.