Immigration: The United States v Canada

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I've worked for the Canada franchise of my company for years and I have yet to meet anyone of our Toronto based staff that has made a trip south of the border for health care. They are all quite a bit more happy with their health care system than any of the US based staff - including myself. If there ever was a red herring, Gary has found it.

[sly_wolf 199]

A mis-spelling means all that? WOW!

I will be sure to let the Premier of Quebec know so that he doesn't have to confer with the Vermont Governor regarding the health care changes coming in Vermont and how they will affect the healthcare access of residents of Quebec. Why would he need to?

Incredible that you base the entire argument on the spelling of a city..if it is all you have, go with it.

I wouldn't move to Quebec either. Their whole system is a mess.

However I would move back to Canada ... for the healthcare.

[TheFantastics09 19]

A mis-spelling means all that? WOW!

I will be sure to let the Premier of Quebec know so that he doesn't have to confer with the Vermont Governor regarding the health care changes coming in Vermont and how they will affect the healthcare access of residents of Quebec. Why would he need to?

Incredible that you base the entire argument on the spelling of a city..if it is all you have, go with it.

Try proofreading next time

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I've worked for the Canada franchise of my company for years and I have yet to meet anyone of our Toronto based staff that has made a trip south of the border for health care. They are all quite a bit more happy with their health care system than any of the US based staff - including myself. If there ever was a red herring, Gary has found it.

And all the Quebec lisence plates at Fletcher Allen in Burlington are my imagination. Maybe the Premier of Quebec did not meet with the Governor of Vermont?

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

However I would move back to Canada ... for the healthcare.

Touche!

When it comes down to that, Canada beats USA #1 with flying colors!

That said, I hope I can stay healthy until Obamacare--as unsatisfactory it surely is compared to Canada's universal health care or even a public option--becomes law in 2014. No more$18K-per-year premiums for a healthy guy like me!

[웃 910]

Of course Canada has universal health care. The US is 10X as populated as Canada. It is a lot easier to cover 33 million people than 310 million

Population of Texas + population of New Jersey = Population of Canada

[TBoneTX 45,522]

How did Canada get its name?

C eh N eh D eh, si man.

[scandal 951]

How did Canada get its name?

C eh N eh D eh, si man.

Stompin' Tom Connors C-A-N-A-D-A

[Dakine10 5,452]

And all the Quebec lisence plates at Fletcher Allen in Burlington are my imagination. Maybe the Premier of Quebec did not meet with the Governor of Vermont?

You originally said the vast majority of Canadians, not Quebecois. That's not a valid extrapolation.

Fletcher Allen gives a 30% discount to Canadians and the government of Quebec, in some cases covers the cost of certain procedures up to the amount that they would be covered in Canada. The reason Quebecois come to Vermont to get a $1500 MRI is not because it's cheaper, it's because it's faster. They can wait to get it done free, or end up paying about 20% of the cost to get it done right away. It's a reasonable trade off, but it is not a scenario that is universally applicable throughout Canada.

You won't find many Canadians who would trade the Canadian health care system for the US one.

[웃 910]

What are the immigration rates from US to Canada and vice versa?

If Canada is so great then what are Mexicans not seeing? They risk their lives (literally) walking on multi-day journeys across the US-Mexico border and spend their life savings paying guides to lead the way....If they want to go to Canada they just buy a plane ticket as it is 100% legal to travel back and forth from Mexico to Canada...

[Dakine10 5,452]

What are the immigration rates from US to Canada and vice versa?

If Canada is so great then what are Mexicans not seeing? They risk their lives (literally) walking on multi-day journeys across the US-Mexico border and spend their life savings paying guides to lead the way....If they want to go to Canada they just buy a plane ticket as it is 100% legal to travel back and forth from Mexico to Canada...

Well first of all, I don't think anyone claimed Canada was "so great", but you are comparing illegal entry to legal entry. That's not a fair comparison. It's a lot easier for Mexicans to enter the US illegally than Canada.

The requirements for Mexicans to enter Canada legally are not significantly different than to enter the USA. They need an entry visa. If your talking about illegal entry, It's a bit harder to EWI at an airport, don't you think?

Edited May 23, 2011 by Dakine10

[keysjangle 145]

I can honestly say I'll miss Canada once I'm gone.

- I didn't have to put my mother in a coma inducing debt to get a VERY high quality university education/degree

- All the people I know are knowledgeable about other cultures/countries/geography, and especially American related topics; it's not out of envy.

- A lot Americans think Canadians are a bunch of bumbling stoned hippies. While marijuana law enforcement is pretty lax in some areas, people still get arrested for selling/growing/possession - I worked with Crown Prosecutors while in high school, I saw it all with my own little eyes, so I can tell you first hand what a waste of money and court time it is to put someone in front of a judge for a minor possession charge.

- I've met Americans who can't point out Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Afghanistan on a map ... one person I met didn't even know where China or India was - this should be common knowledge.

- Toronto has an amazing culture: academia, night life, the International Film Festival, social people (from all around the world - had a great chat from some guys from Ireland, GA, and Australia all in one night at a bar haha), art, architecture and a HUGE amount of pride in our city.

- We are hungry to learn more about ourselves as a developing country, as well as other countries

- One of the BEST music scenes in North America, hands down. Deadmau5, Crystal Castles, Strapping Young Lad, Arcade Fire, Dragonette to name a few. I apologize for Nickelback.

- The health care is great. I don't know a single person who has gone to the U.S. to pay out their ####### for care, and I've never had problems personally finding a great doctor/optometrist/cardiologist/dentist. My aunt is going through chemo, and she was given a stem-cell treatment to combat its devastating effects for free.

- Canada DOES have an identity - we just don't shove it down other people's throats because that's rude It's more like an inside joke between all of us, and we like keeping it that way.

- We don't spend every spare dime on our military landing us in irreparable debt

- I like being polite and courteous. I like that I can bump into someone on the street and look back to see them saying "sorry!" at the time as me with a smile.

- This anecdote: I had a prof from Chicago who came here to live and teach. He said he knew he was becoming Canadian when he bumped into a light pole by accident and apologized.

- Tom Green, Kids in the Hall, Georges St. Pierre, Gretzky, Insulin (particularly handy for Ameircans I hear), IMAX, Pacemakers, Blackberries (the phones), William m*therf*cking Shatner, and of course: the snowblower.

- The Marijuana Party http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/index.en.php3

That being said, yes, there is heavy duty Asian immigration. It's causing a lot of tension in people my age. One Chinese immigrant I know openly stated how much he hated other Asians because they embarrass him. I don't like seeing people hork in the streets, clip their nails in line at the bank, getting trampled when trying to get on the subway or remove their dentures on the subway so they can eat the treasures in between the teeth. I don't like going into a convenience store and having to repeat myself 5 times when I try to buy smokes. By 2017 Toronto's majority will consist of visible minorities. A lot of Canadians don't want to speak out against it because we tout multiculturalism like a badge. But when you go to a high school in a not-so-great area and see daily fights (one reached 500 people) between different South-Asian gangs you realize that yes, there are problems. Ever seen a 16 year old Tamil kid get cracked in the face by an Indian kid with a cricket bat? I have. Gang mentalities are rampant. Do you read about fathers and brothers killing their daughters because of indecency which is unacceptable in sharia law? I do. This isn't to say I'm anti-immigration, I wouldn't be alive if not for it, but my family came with hundreds of thousands of dollars from Turkey (but are Armenian - I think their reason for leaving explains itself) and they worked their asses off. I think there needs to be a massive reform. In Toronto there is a program for Filipino women to come over to be nannies for rich WASP kids, or as the personal attendants to (rich) geriatric women. Although they're not the most glamourous jobs, they are working hard and they are learning about this culture in very close quarters with local families. Many immigrants, esp. older ones make no effort to get in on the "cultural mosaic", and it's causing problems.

That's a pretty long post. I love my country, my city, and yes even the Quebecois. Any children of mine will be brought to Canada go camping, fishing, hiking and experience the amazing untouched north so they can learn about this country from the literal ground up. That's one of the advantages of everyone living by the border - whole lot of gods country to play around in above us Definitely getting a Canadiana tattoo before I POE; I will always be a Canadian at heart no matter how much I get made fun of

And an clip from an absolute classic in crappy quality:

Edited May 23, 2011 by Gervl

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You originally said the vast majority of Canadians, not Quebecois. That's not a valid extrapolation.

Fletcher Allen gives a 30% discount to Canadians and the government of Quebec, in some cases covers the cost of certain procedures up to the amount that they would be covered in Canada. The reason Quebecois come to Vermont to get a $1500 MRI is not because it's cheaper, it's because it's faster. They can wait to get it done free, or end up paying about 20% of the cost to get it done right away. It's a reasonable trade off, but it is not a scenario that is universally applicable throughout Canada.

You won't find many Canadians who would trade the Canadian health care system for the US one.

And how does that vary from what I said. But thanks for the validation. Please try not to distort what I say. Your statement is a lot different than most "Canada Health Care lovers" that simply deny what I say. The Quebec lisence plates at Fletcher Allen are impossible not to notice. Simple fact, there are about 600,000 people in the entire state of Vermont and more than 2 million Canadians just over the border, closer to Fletcher Allen than most Vermonters, who do you think their business comes from? There is a 15% sales tax on everything in Quebec. 6% in Vermont and food and clothes and shoes are exempt. Who do you think is filling up the parking lots at the malls in Burlington and Plattsburgh? 600,000 Vermonters? Or 2 million Quebecois? Check the cost of plane flights to almost anywhere from Montreal Trudeau and Burlington International. You will see why BTV had to add a parking garage and makes all announcemnts in French and English. You will also see why Plattsburgh opened another international airport less than 40 miles from BTV. Need I mention the lines of cars from Quebec buying gasoline at border gas stations? How about the cost of a lift ticket at Mont Tremblanc vs. Jay Peak? It is all good for our economy and I never complain. These high costs in Canada of alomost anything are all related to taxes for health care. whether they know it or not, Canadians do all they can to avoid the COST of their system by using services in the USA.

What I said about the "vast majority of Canadians" is that they live within easy driving distance of the USA, and that is exactly true. The US medical system is a safety valve for Canada. Were it not for the fact that Canadians can come to the USA for medical care (faster, I never said "cheaper") All of those Canadians would be staying in Canada and getting (eventually) their MRIs in Canada at the expense of that system. The "Canadian Health Care System" you speak of is largely supplemented by the US health care system. The only reason a Quebecois can get a doctors appointment in the amount of time they is do because a lot of their fellow Quebecois are going to the US for care...or driving over to Ontario where the Province allows the doctors to make more money and hence, they have longer office hours. Many doctors work two days per week in Montreal and 3 days in Ottawa. Even at that, I can call my doctor this morning and get an appointment today. Try that in Canada.

The last time I had an MRI it was about $400 at Vermont Radiology. I was the only native English speaking patient in the lobby, the rest were Quebecois.

Disclaimer...any misspellings in any of the above negate all facts and improve the Canadian Health Care system.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Dakine10 5,452]

And how does that vary from what I said. But thanks for the validation. Please try not to distort what I say. Your statement is a lot different than most "Canada Health Care lovers" that simply deny what I say. The Quebec lisence plates at Fletcher Allen are impossible not to notice. Simple fact, there are about 600,000 people in the entire state of Vermont and more than 2 million Canadians just over the border, closer to Fletcher Allen than most Vermonters, who do you think their business comes from? There is a 15% sales tax on everything in Quebec. 6% in Vermont and food and clothes and shoes are exempt. Who do you think is filling up the parking lots at the malls in Burlington and Plattsburgh? 600,000 Vermonters? Or 2 million Quebecois?

I'm not disagreeing with that. I have no reason to doubt what you are saying about the relationship between Quebec and Vermont, but it can't be generalized to the relationship between the rest of Canada and the USA.

If someone from BC or Alberta goes to the US for medical care there are no provincial subsidies. They are paying 100% of the bill. I can guarantee you that's not a routine scenario for people in those provinces.

[Marilyn. 340]

yeah, I don't doubt that some Canadians do go to the US for healthcare but I lived in Manitoba for 15 years and BC for another 15 years and in both places we lived fairly close to the border and I don't recall any of my friends and family going to the US for healthcare.. yeah we would go down there for cheap gas and dairy products sometimes ..lol