Obama's speech of a new policy in the Mideast

[_Simpson_ 250]

There was no peace pre 67. Back then the focus in the Arab world was getting rid of Israel entirely. Right now their focus is on reversing the losses they suffered in their wars with Israel. If Israel reverses those losses for them, then they will just switch gears back to wanting the end of Israel.

I know there was no peace pre 67, hence the preemptive strike. My point was that if they dont have the Israeli occupation to use as a divisive tool then it becomes all about the destruction of Israel. I believe then that Israel would get the support it needs globally. The first real step to peace in the middle east.

Edited May 20, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Samoray 165]

Yes that has been our position in the world and unfortunately it has done very little to help our image. Take for example the 1 billion dollars you glossed over to inform us that Obama didn't do enough. I mean come on... This is often the attitude we get from the countries we try to help and were always public enemy #1. With that said and considering the problems we have on the home front we shouldn't be giving this money to Eygpt, the same with the money we give to Israel and Palestine.

As far as a road map to peace goes, until Israel withdraws and respects the pre 67 boarders we will have no peace and even then its a uphill battle. I believe that although Hamas wants nothing short of than the destruction of Israel, I know that if Israel wants the support it needs it has to withdraw from the 67 boarders and give Hamas nothing to stand on. For these same reasons I also believe that the land swap idea will not work.

US is certainly not my Enemy, my wife is American and criticism doesn't mean hostility though and it is generous of the US to do such aids but i was not talking about that he didn't give enough money, i meant he should've resolved other problems that money can't resolve, i believe if Obama wants he can force Israel and the Palestinians to come to a deal, just like what happened between Egypt and Israel when the US stepped in to make us sign the peace treaty, i believe the US has the power to do things other than military operations and giving aid to nations, now the PM of Israel is in the white house let's see what are their comments after this meeting.

[Samoray 165]

Frankly, what Obama has proposed is a win-lose proposition. Win for the Arabs, lose for the Israelis.

Maybe verbally winning but nothing on the grounds will matter, Israel takes no advice from the US unless the US wants to enforce this advice so all of his speech is actually just insignificant talk

[_Simpson_ 250]

US is certainly not my Enemy, my wife is American and criticism doesn't mean hostility though and it is generous of the US to do such aids but i was not talking about that he didn't give enough money, i meant he should've resolved other problems that money can't resolve, i believe if Obama wants he can force Israel and the Palestinians to come to a deal, just like what happened between Egypt and Israel when the US stepped in to make us sign the peace treaty, i believe the US has the power to do things other than military operations and giving aid to nations, now the PM of Israel is in the white house let's see what are their comments after this meeting.

It wasn't about not giving enough aid, I was addressing how you glossed over the 1 billion aid money to tell us what Obama wasn't doing. IMO we do too much and just need to let them be.

Over the years we have tried to deal with this problem in just about every way conceivable. That said there is only so much we can do and I think we need to just mind our own business.

[^_^ 5,021]

I know there was no peace pre 67, hence the preemptive strike. My point was that if they dont have the Israeli occupation to use as a divisive tool then it becomes all about the destruction of Israel. I believe then that Israel would get the support it needs globally. The first real step to peace in the middle east.

That is naive. Israel didn't have much support pre 67, when the destruction of Israel was the goal. There is a lot of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism out there and Israel in the unfortunate position of being subject to both, being a Jewish state with American backing.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Maybe verbally winning but nothing on the grounds will matter, Israel takes no advice from the US unless the US wants to enforce this advice so all of his speech is actually just insignificant talk

I disagree. The two countries have worked well together over the years on this issue. We have put a lot of pressure on Israel thru the years. Israel is our friend because we can work with them, something for the most part cant be said for Palestine.

[Samoray 165]

It wasn't about not giving enough aid, I was addressing how you glossed over the 1 billion aid money to tell us what Obama wasn't doing. IMO we do too much and just need to let them be.

Over the years we have tried to deal with this problem in just about every way conceivable. That said there is only so much we can do and I think we need to just mind our own business.

Actually i wish that the US minds it's own business too, but Obama has said it clearly that the US can not let go of the Middle east for security reasons, he said that the US national security is intertwined with the middle east.

Something off the topic, i have always wondered, how did the US give all of these billions of dollars, spending billions on military and wars at the same time of it being in debt ?, how does that mechanism work ?

[_Simpson_ 250]

That is naive. Israel didn't have much support pre 67, when the destruction of Israel was the goal. There is a lot of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism out there and Israel in the unfortunate position of being subject to both, being a Jewish state with American backing.

Naive? Were you under the impression that I thought the world would love Israel because they respected the pre 67 boarders?

I didnt say it was a perfect solution. Its not and it would only be one step in the process. Its important that we dont give them a leg to stand on(the occupation)and we need to make sure its all about the destruction of Israel. Then some people not all will start opening their eyes. Times are changing and this sort of approach(destroy Israel) would be short lived.

[^_^ 5,021]

Then some people not all will start opening their eyes. Times are changing and this sort of approach(destroy Israel) would be short lived.

The belief that people will start opening their eyes and that times are changing... are naive.

[Samoray 165]

I disagree. The two countries have worked well together over the years on this issue. We have put a lot of pressure on Israel thru the years. Israel is our friend because we can work with them, something for the most part cant be said for Palestine.

They have worked together but what are the accomplishments now, Obama has said that Israel should stop building settlement, will that happen ? of course not, i believe what is said to the public is different than what is been said behind closed doors.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Actually i wish that the US minds it's own business too, but Obama has said it clearly that the US can not let go of the Middle east for security reasons, he said that the US national security is intertwined with the middle east.

Something off the topic, i have always wondered, how did the US give all of these billions of dollars, spending billions on military and wars at the same time of it being in debt ?, how does that mechanism work ?

Well we agree on 1 thing.

The same way we can give a billion to Egypt, now as far as how it works...well...I choose life ask somebody else.

[_Simpson_ 250]

The belief that people will start opening their eyes and that times are changing... are naive.

Considering that I said "some people" I dont find it to be naive. Even then the people who still hate Israel will find that they cant address this situation the same way anymore and we just might see that change Obama promised us.

[^_^ 5,021]

You are a starry eyed idealist! How funny.

[_Simpson_ 250]

They have worked together but what are the accomplishments now, Obama has said that Israel should stop building settlement, will that happen ? of course not,

Very little but we have done all we can.

i believe what is said to the public is different than what is been said behind closed doors.

If you're talking about the revolving doors that Arafat had installed in his prisons well then I would agree.

[_Simpson_ 250]

You are a starry eyed idealist! How funny.

Good try but like I said its just one step.