Mental Illness

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I think this statement was directed at Kat, but I don't know how fair it is. I know of many, many failed MENA relationships, many of which involved abuse. While some of the women involved might have a history of this sort of relationship, not all do - at least not to my knowledge. And even if every single one of them had an abusive past, I don't think it's right to mock the situation. I feel for every woman that has gotten scammed, regardless of whether she has fallen into a cycle of victimhood.

I agree that this thread is OTT, and that Kat has some issues to work out (which I think she would agree with), but we shouldn't paint every woman who has had a bad experience on this visa journey with the same brush.

Thank you Jenn.

[Lisamarie 79]

For Palm Tree Gurl - I feel the same... You have been through so much in your life, yet you look at things from a positive vew and try to help others with your support and advice. I'm glad you found happiness, you deserve it.

T- Sorry you had to go through all this in your life, and still I have not seen a negative post from you...I admire you overcoming

the facts of life, and the decision taken by the adult care taker when you were young. I feel much Peace from your words, and

although I do not know you personally, I am proud of you for not using the past to dictate your future.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Lisamarie

[Lisamarie 79]

Why? You think that every woman that is abused by a MENA man, whether physically, emotionally, or financially, has also been through the same abuse in the past? For what reason? I think there are many (MOST) that had no idea their fiance/husband was capable of that and didn't find out until they were here. I don't think it has anything to do with their past, or past relationships. How many women would seriously bring a man here from another country that they were aware was abusive, or a scammer, etc?

Your thought that this was directed at Kat is incorrect. If I wanted to direct something to her alone, I would have no problem doing that, and would have done it. It was directed, quite clearly, I think, to people who post about their relationships in the context that what went wrong in their marriage was based on a MENA/visa/scam issue.

Also, I did not say that all the women who became involved in negative, abusive relationships with MENA men had these types of relationships in the past. I don't presume to have those statistics, which is why I asked about it. As I said, though, I don't imagine that the women who post about the horrors of MENA men in their lives, had great, productive relationships in the past, and their relationship with the MENA men is some anomaly in their romantic relationship pattern.

And, btw, isn't Kat who paints all of us and our husbands with the same brush repeatedly? I asked the question specifically for people who come on looking for constructive, useful information and are confronted with Kat's and others' rants about every relationship with a MENA man being a scam, or some other negative variation of that.

[Lisamarie 79]

Or any man that they bring here through immigration, that they're not able to spend daily time with them before they arrive here...but we were talking about MENA men, which is why I referenced them.

Why? You think that every woman that is abused by a MENA man, whether physically, emotionally, or financially, has also been through the same abuse in the past? For what reason? I think there are many (MOST) that had no idea their fiance/husband was capable of that and didn't find out until they were here. I don't think it has anything to do with their past, or past relationships. How many women would seriously bring a man here from another country that they were aware was abusive, or a scammer, etc?

[msheesha 548]

People tend to repeat relationship patterns, especially abusive ones, unless they make a concerted effort to break the pattern.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I think this statement was directed at Kat, but I don't know how fair it is. I know of many, many failed MENA relationships, many of which involved abuse. While some of the women involved might have a history of this sort of relationship, not all do - at least not to my knowledge. And even if every single one of them had an abusive past, I don't think it's right to mock the situation. I feel for every woman that has gotten scammed, regardless of whether she has fallen into a cycle of victimhood.

I agree that this thread is OTT, and that Kat has some issues to work out (which I think she would agree with), but we shouldn't paint every woman who has had a bad experience on this visa journey with the same brush.

I think Jackie's all night slumber parties when each person was waiting for news on their visas was so wonderful. Her and pineapple princess would open the chatroom and everyone would check in and talk. I have so many really happy memories of those nights. Sometimes I think the best part of this process was Jackie, Bridget, Pineapple Princess, That girl that was married to the nepali and everyone that would sit in the rooms and talk. Those days on visa journey, when everyone wasnt bickering were pretty wonderful. We are talking like 2007 and 2008. There were some sad days, when Dawn died. She was an amazing friend of Jackies and didnt always have the best experience with her husband but like everyone else here, cheered everyone up. I remember shortly before she died she told a funny story about being on a mountain top in Jordan and screaming something really funny off of the top. There was brilliant Peazy and sarah and hicham and I cant remember some of the others. I know Sereia got divorced.. she was really really sweet and then Amy..she was so wonderful and then funny Amal. The best part of my experience really looking back was before he got here and the funny women on VJ like Jenn and Jackie

Thank you so so so much for everything to the people that made the hard times bearable. If there is anything I treasure, it was the days before he came and the people I got to know. I really love you guys and for those of us that didnt make it,some think its all our fault, some think it isnt. Sometimes I think its just a big bowl of blame like harrira.. good bad and everything mixed in.

I miss the old days Jackie and Jenn.. before things went bad...Pineapple princess was wonderful . There were so many wonderful women that have travelled through these boards through the years

[Staashi 371]

Kat, you're a good gal, and having met you in person I can attest to that. I remember meeting you in Orlando and you were about 36 weeks pregnant. I had actually just found out that I was pregnant, but I didn't share that with you...too new. That was August of 2008. When you posted about having troubles with your husband my heart was heavy. And then, tragically, when your baby died, Dear God, I was a wreck just thinking of what you must have gone through. I wish you peace. You deserve it.

And to all the ladies on this board that think Kat has something against MENA guys, she doesn't. The poor gal has just known many people through the years. Knowing them, you learn alot of the sh!t they've gone through and it is an eye opener.

There are many couples on vj who are no longer together. Some because of fraud....which has been quite common in MENA, just saying. And some because of your typical relationship problems where marriages just begin to crumble and dissolve. The stories that I've been privileged to learn about make me sick. Actually, f that, they make me angry. You begin to care about these ladies.

So, for those of you who are enjoying your rainbows, lollipops, and all that your man has to offer - congratulations. And for those of you that have had "the sh!t kicked out of you by love," (one of my favorite lines from Love Actually) be strong. God willing, there will be brighter days ahead.

[doodlebugg 10]

I really love you guys and for those of us that didnt make it,some think its all our fault, some think it isnt. Sometimes I think its just a big bowl of blame like harrira.. good bad and everything mixed in.

Kat I don't look at it as not having made it. I look at life now as a big journey having many bumps on the road to whatever desitinies we encounter. My relationship with my husband overall was very good. I loved him, he loved me and we had many many good times together. In the end it wasn't meant to be I guess but that's just life.

Marriage with someone from MENA if you are an American is hard. Marriage is hard anyway without putting cultural differences in the mix. Then add whatever bad stuff you want, whether it be abuse, neglect, mental illness, etc. and you've got yourself quite a challenge. If you already have kids then add that to the big stew. Seriously a person has to be very strong to go through what some of us go through and come out ok in the end.

All that being said I would not trade one day...ok maybe *one* day....of my marriage with him for anything. As the old saying goes, "better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". Although I'm still very sad, I know that in time I will heal and will be left with some beautifully awesome memories of laughter, joy and love.

[~Jackie~ 30]

On Topic: no my Mena men didn't suffer a mental illness~I'm the one that went on anti-depressants

Off Topic: Next month it will be 3 years since Dawn died~not a day goes by that I dont think of her. I miss our coffee chats at IHOP.

Jackie

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[venusfire503 54]

Well, just to throw something new into the mix - what about me? My (USC) ex was VERY emotionally abusive and controlling (and we were together a long time - met when we were young - still teenagers). My MENA man, on the other hand, is the sweetest, kindest, most helpful person I've ever met. We went through some tough times, of course - there was quite a bit of adjusting on both our parts (and we learned to make those adjustments). We're both human, so it's not like it's been perfect every second. But, he's been more encouraging and supportive than anyone else in my life, and he's even brought me closer to God (without either of us converting to the other's religion, in case anyone is wondering - but please don't think I'm criticizing anyone who converts). He always tells me, too, how much he appreciates all I've done for him. Our situation has allowed us to spend more time together than most couples, and we like to keep each other company. I honestly couldn't imagine life without him. He's very loving, and we get along very very well. I know that 4 years and 4 months of marriage isn't like a lifetime or anything, but judging from those years and months, I'm very optimistic for the future of our relationship. We're happy, and we just... fit together.

Best of luck to all of you, whenever life takes you.

venusfire

[Staashi 371]

Congrats Venus! May you continue along swimmingly.

[Staashi 371]

Congrats Venus! May you continue along swimmingly.

[Staashi 371]

Congrats Venus! May you continue along swimmingly.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Well, just to throw something new into the mix - what about me? My (USC) ex was VERY emotionally abusive and controlling (and we were together a long time - met when we were young - still teenagers). My MENA man, on the other hand, is the sweetest, kindest, most helpful person I've ever met. We went through some tough times, of course - there was quite a bit of adjusting on both our parts (and we learned to make those adjustments). We're both human, so it's not like it's been perfect every second. But, he's been more encouraging and supportive than anyone else in my life, and he's even brought me closer to God (without either of us converting to the other's religion, in case anyone is wondering - but please don't think I'm criticizing anyone who converts). He always tells me, too, how much he appreciates all I've done for him. Our situation has allowed us to spend more time together than most couples, and we like to keep each other company. I honestly couldn't imagine life without him. He's very loving, and we get along very very well. I know that 4 years and 4 months of marriage isn't like a lifetime or anything, but judging from those years and months, I'm very optimistic for the future of our relationship. We're happy, and we just... fit together.

Best of luck to all of you, whenever life takes you.

venusfire

Thats so great Venus. Good luck

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

On Topic: no my Mena men didn't suffer a mental illness~I'm the one that went on anti-depressants

Off Topic: Next month it will be 3 years since Dawn died~not a day goes by that I dont think of her. I miss our coffee chats at IHOP.

Jackie

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To Jackie

A MUCH BIGGER LIFE

by Kat for beloved Jackie

I call her that because she is just so lovable

5 20 2011

It was supposed to be so different

And the stars told us so

As we walked among the ruins

You in Petra and me in Tipasa

We were supposed to have a different story

The oceans that greeted us along the way were supposed to have ships with billowing sails

And the tea with mint that nipped our noses

The sounds of darbuka that filled the night was ours , it was ours

But we took a different journey and instead of being a journey of love

It became a journey of just knowing

Knowing we had become better people and a bigger understanding of how big love could be

That it could be a lateral journey, a journey of walking along side another who is broken hearted

And that we somehow could share water, and share stories and throw parties for other people and rejoice in their happiness

Although somehow it was not our story. The songs were not for us just then. It was another woman's dreams and hopes we heard

Jackie, beloved

You are part of a bigger story, a story of redemption and growth, a mother a warrior a friend to the broken

And there will be other Jordans and other stories

You were meant for other things

Falling leaves in Canada perhaps the rivers of the orient

Love will come again in the form of a whisper, a glance

And someday

Just someday

You will have another journey and you will let me know

How all of this became

a part

Of a much bigger life

Edited May 22, 2011 by Hanging in there