illegal immigration

[san diego 407]

Hmmm...

and

Hmmmm...

Was there actual, real, verifiable policy being discussed other than how you felt about something? I can't tell.

Yes, new proposition by President Obama to legalize specific group of illegal immigrants. And the fact that it only promotes illegal immigration.

[san diego 407]

I am also wondering what is wrong about the law proposed in Arizona and over-turned on the federal level and the law that was just signed in Georgia. Why can't police officers check if an individual is legally in this country?

[fozzie 41]

I completely agree with you. I would never even think of doing this illegally. It is not worth it. I agree with every point you make. However, legalizing them may lead to even more illegal immigration. This is more of a political discussion. I used to vote democrat but now I am more and more leaning towards republican point of view in this respect. I am not sure if you can fix employment of illegal immigrants. Entire farming economy in California is build around this.

What really shocked me since Masha came to San Diego is how easy it is to obtain everything without social security. For some reason we still have not received the card (I am going with her again on Monday) even though we applied pretty much the first day after we arrived (it has been almost 3 weeks, during this time we got married, and even submitted AOS package). She can drive indefinitely with her DL from Russia, she was put on my bank account without it, she got a credit card without it (my credit card though). She started community college without it (free ESL classes!). I am just not sure what do you need it for now days.. All of a sudden I realized that you do not need legal presence or social security for anything... And this is the only office were you need legal status is to get SS# number. In California (it seems like it) everything is done so that you can use all the benefits of the tax-paying citizens without legal presence and paying taxes. This is the reason I started this topic as I am getting shocked how far you can get away without legal status (they do not know if she is legal). In community college they have not even asked for her SS# OR passport OR her status! AND this is fully tax-funded.. My point is that not only you can live normal life being illegal but also you can get pretty much all the tax-supported benefits, such as community college education.. California public school system is in terrible shape, probably the worst in the nation. This is where I would rather put more money than sustaining illegal immigration. I am not against illegals themselves. I am opposing the way the system handles this matter.

Comunity colleges are not free, heavily subsidized maybe but not free. They will still have to pay a few thousand dollars a semester to go full time without financial aid (which they wont get because you DO need to have status that qualifies.

But otherwise yes, there are many things you can get without status and that is annoying. Unfortunately the immigration problems this country face will never go away unless you erect a wall all around the country...which isnt going to happen and nor should it. A problem with no solution as someone already stated.

[san diego 407]

Comunity colleges are not free, heavily subsidized maybe but not free. They will still have to pay a few thousand dollars a semester to go full time without financial aid (which they wont get because you DO need to have status that qualifies.

But otherwise yes, there are many things you can get without status and that is annoying. Unfortunately the immigration problems this country face will never go away unless you erect a wall all around the country...which isnt going to happen and nor should it. A problem with no solution as someone already stated.

Correction: ESL classes are free. My wife (former fiancee, here on K1) that still does not have social security number(lost or delayed, need to check) was admitted for free ESL classes. All she did is paid $35 for the parking... And she is already attending them...

[웃 910]

Unfortunately the immigration problems this country face will never go away unless you erect a wall all around the country..

So we just need Eric to stand erect on one end of the border. Why didn't I think of that before

[san diego 407]

I agree more with Gary though. It is easily solvable by introducing mandatory background check to enroll for publicly-subsidized education and prosecute employers that exploit illegal labor. Or at least stop handing out free green cards. I think the problem will be solved. I think enforcing boarders is not a viable solution...

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

So we just need Eric to stand erect on one end of the border. Why didn't I think of that before

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I completely agree with you. I would never even think of doing this illegally. It is not worth it. I agree with every point you make. However, legalizing them may lead to even more illegal immigration. This is more of a political discussion. I used to vote democrat but now I am more and more leaning towards republican point of view in this respect. I am not sure if you can fix employment of illegal immigrants. Entire farming economy in California is build around this.

What really shocked me since Masha came to San Diego is how easy it is to obtain everything without social security. For some reason we still have not received the card (I am going with her again on Monday) even though we applied pretty much the first day after we arrived (it has been almost 3 weeks, during this time we got married, and even submitted AOS package). She can drive indefinitely with her DL from Russia, she was put on my bank account without it, she got a credit card without it (my credit card though). She started community college without it (free ESL classes!). I am just not sure what do you need it for now days.. All of a sudden I realized that you do not need legal presence or social security for anything... And this is the only office were you need legal status is to get SS# number. In California (it seems like it) everything is done so that you can use all the benefits of the tax-paying citizens without legal presence and paying taxes. This is the reason I started this topic as I am getting shocked how far you can get away without legal status (they do not know if she is legal). In community college they have not even asked for her SS# OR passport OR her status! AND this is fully tax-funded.. My point is that not only you can live normal life being illegal but also you can get pretty much all the tax-supported benefits, such as community college education.. California public school system is in terrible shape, probably the worst in the nation. This is where I would rather put more money than sustaining illegal immigration. I am not against illegals themselves. I am opposing the way the system handles this matter.

Go back to the social security offic e and they can give her the number and check where the card is.

Social security cards are not what determines if you can work or anything else. Other businesses use them as a means to identify people but whether you "need" one or not is not a federal government function. We did not need a social security card for Sergey to get his driver's license in Vermont and neither would anyone else, it is only necessary to show you can legally be here for more than 6 months.

Why does it matter if she is legal to attend community college in a class that is free or classes she pays for herself? Who cares?

Too many people focus on the incidentals of illegal immigration and NONE focus on the cause. Republicans want you to think they are doing something about it by building walls or making laws about benefits and such. No, they do not care. They want illegals to provide cheap labor and avoid federal mandates and taxes.

Democrats need them to be future voters after they give them amnesty and citizenship. No politician really wants to get rid of them or make living and working conditions tolerable for them. Why?

Making them legal will also make them unemployed. They were not hired because they are the best roofers in the world. They were hired because they ARE illegal and therefore can be exploited, overworked, underpaid, and the employers do not have to be bothered with such things as payroll tax, etc. Make them legal and they are just as expensive as legal workers who are better trained AND have air powered nail guns. They become unemployed and get replaced by MORE illegals who will work cheap.

As long as there is a habitat for illegal workers, there will be illegal workers. Making illegal workers legal does not dismantle the reason for illegal workers. It just makes a whole bunch of job openings. It is nothing but a conscription of new slaves, to be honest. Fences will not keep them out. The habitat for illegals needs to be dismantled, destroyed, eliminated. All the rest is incidental.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I agree more with Gary though. It is easily solvable by introducing mandatory background check to enroll for publicly-subsidized education and prosecute employers that exploit illegal labor. Or at least stop handing out free green cards. I think the problem will be solved. I think enforcing boarders is not a viable solution...

Why aren't YOU swimming across to Mexico? Why don't I jump the border tonight and go live under a bridge in Quebec? Maybe pick apples?

Because there is NO ECONOMIC incentive to do so. It is also why I do not try to sneak into Bangledesh, Benin, or Honduras. If there is no economic incentive then there is no other reason to come here and border enforcement gets a whole lot easier and you can concentrate on really BAD people and not have to weed out lettuce pickers from terrorists and drug dealers.

Allowing US employers to continue to exploit humans by circumventing laws to protect workers is actually a matter of national security. These employers create such a flood of illegals that it becomes extremely difficult for law enforcement to protect the USA from people that REALLY want to harm us.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Allowing US employers to continue to exploit humans by circumventing laws to protect workers is actually a matter of national security. These employers create such a flood of illegals that it becomes extremely difficult for law enforcement to protect the USA from people that REALLY want to harm us.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The problem is, Gary, that the employers contribute money to the politicians' campaigns, all of them, so the politicians cannot really do anything meaningful against illegal immigration as that would hurt their sponsors. If I were the head Indian, I would secure the borders GDR style, and have at least 5 million illegal aliens deported by the end of my first term. But no politician can do that if they want to stay in office, not because the American people don't want it (they do!), but because the corporate sponsors don't want it, and those are the ones who really rule this country. Even the President is just a puppet.

[Vi-Jay 218]

Even the President is just a puppet.

A "sock puppet"?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The problem is, Gary, that the employers contribute money to the politicians' campaigns, all of them, so the politicians cannot really do anything meaningful against illegal immigration as that would hurt their sponsors. If I were the head Indian, I would secure the borders GDR style, and have at least 5 million illegal aliens deported by the end of my first term. But no politician can do that if they want to stay in office, not because the American people don't want it (they do!), but because the corporate sponsors don't want it, and those are the ones who really rule this country. Even the President is just a puppet.

Of course. People just need to stop thinking that ANY pliticians really want to DO anything to end slavery in this country. They are not really going to secure the borders either. Actually I hope they don't. I really do not need them wasting MORE money when they have no intention to stop the "problem" Politicians NEED illegals for their own purposes. They pretend to be concerned about them

Odd that the same political people that pretend to be concerned about "worker's rights" and the "little people" seem perfectly content to allow humans to be smuggled like cattle and treated worse than factory farm chickens...but they aren't "white" so it is OK.

[san diego 407]

Go back to the social security offic e and they can give her the number and check where the card is.

Social security cards are not what determines if you can work or anything else. Other businesses use them as a means to identify people but whether you "need" one or not is not a federal government function. We did not need a social security card for Sergey to get his driver's license in Vermont and neither would anyone else, it is only necessary to show you can legally be here for more than 6 months.

Why does it matter if she is legal to attend community college in a class that is free or classes she pays for herself? Who cares?

Too many people focus on the incidentals of illegal immigration and NONE focus on the cause. Republicans want you to think they are doing something about it by building walls or making laws about benefits and such. No, they do not care. They want illegals to provide cheap labor and avoid federal mandates and taxes.

Democrats need them to be future voters after they give them amnesty and citizenship. No politician really wants to get rid of them or make living and working conditions tolerable for them. Why?

Making them legal will also make them unemployed. They were not hired because they are the best roofers in the world. They were hired because they ARE illegal and therefore can be exploited, overworked, underpaid, and the employers do not have to be bothered with such things as payroll tax, etc. Make them legal and they are just as expensive as legal workers who are better trained AND have air powered nail guns. They become unemployed and get replaced by MORE illegals who will work cheap.

As long as there is a habitat for illegal workers, there will be illegal workers. Making illegal workers legal does not dismantle the reason for illegal workers. It just makes a whole bunch of job openings. It is nothing but a conscription of new slaves, to be honest. Fences will not keep them out. The habitat for illegals needs to be dismantled, destroyed, eliminated. All the rest is incidental.

Completely agree! Very good points!

[Zero Sum 305]

Yes, new proposition by President Obama to legalize specific group of illegal immigrants. And the fact that it only promotes illegal immigration.

DREAM Act?

I know its emotional for all sides involved... but you may want to read up on who the 'beneficiaries' would be and how they could attain legalization. Its not like they crossed the border yesterday. Try without the irrational rant that has no bearing whatsoever on reality.