Torture Won't Stop Terror

[Dean iWait 0]

On July 10, 2001, Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA and State Department terrorism analyst, lamented in the pages of the New York Times that too many Americans had been persuaded that terrorism ‘is becoming more widespread and lethal,’ too many feared that the ‘United States is the most popular target of terrorists’ and that ‘extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.’ He declared: ‘None of these beliefs are based in fact.’

[desert_fox 32]

On July 10, 2001, Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA and State Department terrorism analyst, lamented in the pages of the New York Times that too many Americans had been persuaded that terrorism ‘is becoming more widespread and lethal,’ too many feared that the ‘United States is the most popular target of terrorists’ and that ‘extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.’ He declared: ‘None of these beliefs are based in fact.’

July of 2001??????

I would say that subsequent events have proved him wrong.

[Marc and Olga 0]

WAR ON TERRIERS!!!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

On July 10, 2001, Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA and State Department terrorism analyst, lamented in the pages of the New York Times that too many Americans had been persuaded that terrorism ‘is becoming more widespread and lethal,’ too many feared that the ‘United States is the most popular target of terrorists’ and that ‘extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.’ He declared: ‘None of these beliefs are based in fact.’

...and 20 something years ago Saddam was our ally and we had sold weapons to Bin Laden. Boy, was Rumsfeld as well as many members of the PNAC wrong about those two fellas, eh?

As to Larry C. Johnson's remarks, I'd like to see in what context he was speaking about for one. Aside from that, does anything he said 5 years ago have any bearing on the facts he stated in the article posted here?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

On July 10, 2001, Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA and State Department terrorism analyst, lamented in the pages of the New York Times that too many Americans had been persuaded that terrorism ‘is becoming more widespread and lethal,’ too many feared that the ‘United States is the most popular target of terrorists’ and that ‘extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.’ He declared: ‘None of these beliefs are based in fact.’

...and 20 something years ago Saddam was our ally and we had sold weapons to Bin Laden. Boy, was Rumsfeld as well as many members of the PNAC wrong about those two fellas, eh?

As to Larry C. Johnson's remarks, I'd like to see in what context he was speaking about for one. Aside from that, does anything he said 5 years ago have any bearing on the facts he stated in the article posted here?

Interestingly enough - we were selling weapons to both sides during the Iran/Iraq war. Crazy eh? No wonder no fukcer trusts us eh?

[Heracles 417]

By Larry C. Johnson

During the Cold War we fought the Soviet Union, which was a master at using secret prisons and torture. We won the Cold War in part because we at least knew such behavior is reprehensible. Now, in the midst of a newly declared nonwar war, we have met the enemy and surrendered our nation's integrity and honor. Republicans and Democrats need to come together on one critical point --

Where do you get these facts and ideas from?? So the cold war was won because of the interrogation methods used and not the fact that communism aka liberalism aka socialism is a failed concept...

when it comes to fighting terrorists, we cannot and should not act like terrorists.That's a point George Bush still does not grasp.

So let me get this straight, you are saying that we will win a war by playing by the rules while the opponent has absolutely no rules to follow, whatsoever?? Wow.. If history was rewritten based on that core belief we would still be under Roman rule or would possibly now be living under a NAZI State..

How can one win when the other is playing dirty? For example, how can you win a game of blackjack or poker if the other person is cheating??

***

At the end of the day what is your solution? How would liberals deal with the current situation / developments? How would liberals deal with the fact that there is a group of people out there adamant about killing Americans? How would liberals deal with the growing violence and crime amongst Black American and Hispanic community? How would liberals deal with the fact that in terms of infrastructure the US, as a whole, is on par with 2nd to 3rd world nations? You guys talk about inteligence operations yet cant stand any form of government authority such as the CIA. Liberals absolutely hate the concept of law enforcement monitoring the community, even if it reduces crime and violence by 99%.. Get our of your ###### whole liberal states and travel to 1st world nations and see how inteligent and civilized people take care of their security, crime and poverty..

PS Please don't throw out BS lines like the 'we need an energy policy', which basically means we are twisting words and telling you small minded liberals what you want to hear and actually have no plans on doing anything..

Edited September 9, 2006 by Infidel

[one...two...tree 2,762]

By Larry C. Johnson

During the Cold War we fought the Soviet Union, which was a master at using secret prisons and torture. We won the Cold War in part because we at least knew such behavior is reprehensible. Now, in the midst of a newly declared nonwar war, we have met the enemy and surrendered our nation's integrity and honor. Republicans and Democrats need to come together on one critical point --

Where do you get these facts and ideas from?? So the cold war was won because of the interrogation methods used and not the fact that communism aka liberalism aka socialism is a failed concept...

You're an idiot if you honestly believe what you just wrote.

[Heracles 417]

You're an idiot if you honestly believe what you just wrote.

Yeah.. coming from the person who is full of 2 cent quotes from other ignorant like minded dumb asses..

You're an idiot if you honestly believe what you just wrote.

I am not surprised with your response. Americans, especially liberals, have been living with trash for so long now that it's only natural you pick up their ignorance, naiveness and nasty habits..

Edited September 9, 2006 by Infidel

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You're an idiot if you honestly believe what you just wrote.

Yeah.. coming from the person who is full of 2 cent quotes from other ignorant like minded dumb asses..

Well tell me, sparky - just how is communism aka liberalism aka socialism? Did you even make it beyond the 3rd grade?

Here, I'll help you...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=l...amp;x=0&y=0

Liberalism:

2. a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.

4. a movement in modern Protestantism that emphasizes freedom from tradition and authority, the adjustment of religious beliefs to scientific conceptions, and the development of spiritual capacities.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Heracles 417]

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Which confirms what I said earlier... you are an idiot.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

It's ironic that in your image you happen to have captured, there is the quote under the word 'Liberalism' from Benjamin Franklin which is quite relevent to this thread, yet it completely went over your head.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Heracles 417]

It's ironic that in your image you happen to have captured, there is the quote under the word 'Liberalism' from Benjamin Franklin which is quite relevent to this thread, yet it completely went over your head.

I saw that genius.. It was a joke anyway. I just can't wait to see what you say once CA is attacked. Probably blame GW.. if you're still alive..

Which confirms what I said earlier... you are an idiot.

Go back to watching the Daily show..

Edited September 9, 2006 by Infidel

[Dean iWait 0]

On July 10, 2001, Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA and State Department terrorism analyst, lamented in the pages of the New York Times that too many Americans had been persuaded that terrorism ‘is becoming more widespread and lethal,’ too many feared that the ‘United States is the most popular target of terrorists’ and that ‘extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.’ He declared: ‘None of these beliefs are based in fact.’

...and 20 something years ago Saddam was our ally and we had sold weapons to Bin Laden. Boy, was Rumsfeld as well as many members of the PNAC wrong about those two fellas, eh?

As to Larry C. Johnson's remarks, I'd like to see in what context he was speaking about for one. Aside from that, does anything he said 5 years ago have any bearing on the facts he stated in the article posted here?

If you would like to see the entire article pull it up on the NYT archives why don't you. And yes it does have bearing since as a former terrorism analyst he is obviously clueless on the subject. Why should anyone think now that he is still not totally clueless on the same subject? Any expert on terrorism worth their salt at the time was saying exactly the opposite in July of 2001.

I do love this line from your original post though: Let's ignore for the moment that terrorist attacks in which people have been killed or wounded have quadrupled since 2001.

So they have quadrupled as compared to what? Quadrupled as compared to the previous 2,000 years? As compared to the last 100 years? The last 50 years? Quadrupled as compared to 1972? LOL! Typical partisan hack tactic. Just throw out some bumper sticker propaganda slogan that isn't even a complete statement.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If you would like to see the entire article pull it up on the NYT archives why don't you. And yes it does have bearing since as a former terrorism analyst he is obviously clueless on the subject. Why should anyone think now that he is still not totally clueless on the same subject? Any expert on terrorism worth their salt at the time was saying exactly the opposite in July of 2001.

I do love this line from your original post though: Let's ignore for the moment that terrorist attacks in which people have been killed or wounded have quadrupled since 2001.

So they have quadrupled as compared to what? Quadrupled as compared to the previous 2,000 years? As compared to the last 100 years? The last 50 years? Quadrupled as compared to 1972? LOL! Typical partisan hack tactic. Just throw out some bumper sticker propaganda slogan that isn't even a complete statement.

ehem...terrorist attacks have quadrupled since 2001 - meaning the number of terrorist attacks in 2006 are four times more frequent than the number of attacks in 2001. I'm not sure how that escapes your comprehension.

As for Larry Johnson, he wasn't the only one who hadn't a clue that a large scale terrorist plot on U.S. soil was going to happen. And if you put his words and juxtapose them with the conflicting and contradictory remarks that have been made by Bush and his Administration prior to and after 9/11, this is just reaching to discredit what he is saying in this article. And that's what it's about - this Adminstration's foreign policy is a miserable failure, yet there are still a few of you Bush supporters out there that refuse to see the forest for the trees. To dismiss Johnson's remarks as mere political rhetoric while accepting the Administrations remarks as the God honest truth is appalling. These discussions aren't nor should they be partisan in nature. We should be able to rise above political partisan rhetoric and discuss these issues on their own merits.

BTW, Dean, Larry C. Johnson is hardly a liberal hack...

Read on...

Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, National Public Radio, ABC's Nightline, NBC's Today Show, the New York Times, CNN and the BBC. He was even employed as a Fox News Contributor during 2002. Mr. Johnson has authored several articles for publications, including Security Management Magazine, the New York Times, and The Los Angeles Times. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world, including the Center for Research and Strategic Studies at the Ecole Polytechnique in Paris, France. He represented the U.S. Government at the July 1996 OSCE Terrorism Conference in Vienna, Austria.

From 1989 until October 1993, Larry Johnson served as a Deputy Director in the U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism. He managed crisis response operations for terrorist incidents throughout the world and he helped organize and direct the US Government’s debriefing of US citizens held in Kuwait and Iraq, which provided vital intelligence on Iraqi operations following the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Mr. Johnson also participated in the investigation of the terrorist bombing of Pan Am 103. Under Mr. Johnson’s leadership the U.S. airlines and pilots agreed to match the US Government’s two million-dollar reward.

http://www.berg-associates.com/larryc.htm

Johnson said that he believes a letter of recommendation from Republican Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) helped opened doors for him at the CIA. [2]. He left the CIA after working there for four years in 1989. A registered Republican who supported President Bush in 2000,[3] Johnson has since broken ranks with Republicans over the scandal surrounding the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson.

Yeah, a REAL liberal hack...my #######.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_C._Johnson

Edited September 9, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky