Tsar Putin spreads his tentacles

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I'm just wondering where you get your facts that the Kremlin supports Belarus and props up Lukashenka when relations between the two countries are frosty at best. It's not really something I have ever come across, apart from an article in the Economist in 1998. I am just interested in your sources besides your own conspiracy theories. I mean, I even read stuff from the Belarusan-American Association, and they don't really mention it and that is as anti-Lukashenka and anti-Russia in general as you can get.

America doesn't want ANY country to even come close to their power. It's nice to be on top. And the only way to stay there is to make sure no one comes close. And for the part of the world that Russia feels some kind of sovereignity toward, it's the same thing for them. It's not anything new. It's been that way for a long time.

Where do you think Belarus gets it's cheap gas and money from ? A banana tree ? Belarus is broke, it has been broke for a long time now. Belarus produces tractors, dairy products, and bread...nothing more and nothing less.

You really should try learning something about Russia, it's history, and it's neighbors if you plan on marrying a Russian. It's always good to know something about your mates country.

As far as "conspiracy theory's...I'm surprised you don't have "google search" on your laptop/pc...whatever. To many of us it's common knowledge.

Now let's take a look at where the criminal dictatorship in Belarus get's it's money.

http://udf.by/english/main-story/6902-belarus-russia-sign-oil-supply-deal.html <--- This deal was signed two days before the last suedo presidential election in Belarus

"Belarus, Russia Sign Oil Supply Deal"

http://www.kommersant.com/p838631/r_528/foreign_relations/

"Russia Offers Belarus Big Aid"

http://democraticbelarus.eu/node/1940

"A Loan from Russia: Unveiling the Likely Rationale"

http://law.by/work/EnglPortal.nsf/0/30B976C1BFE3A8F5C22578390056ECA6?OpenDocument

"Russia ready to loan Belarus $9bn for NPP construction"

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101225/161930348.html <--- This was the last election just a few months ago

"Russia's Medvedev congratulates Belarus President Lukashenko on reelection"

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060320/44576538.html <--- This is from the 2006 election in Belarus

"Putin congratulates Lukashenko on election victory"

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=osce+disputes+election+Belarus&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= <--- Fair elections in Belarus ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110315/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_belarus_russia;_ylt=AmMqcu7ZzbnKHtJjoKyoyi50bBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTJvbW9ldjhpBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMzE1L2V1X2JlbGFydXNfcnVzc2lhBHBvcwMxMARzZWMDeW5fcGFnaW5hdGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawNydXNzaWFiZWxhcnU-

Russia, Belarus sign $9 billion nuclear plant deal

MINSK, Belarus – Russia is to build a nuclear power station for Belarus and provide the $9.4 billion required as a loan to its smaller neighbor.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin oversaw the signing of a deal in Minsk on Tuesday that foresees a two-block facility coming fully online by 2018.

Its location, near Belarus' border with Lithuania, has caused concern with environmentalists in the Baltic country as well as at home.

Putin suggested in a televised meeting with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko that the power station would be safer than the Japanese plant crippled by an earthquake and tsunami.

The export of Russia's nuclear expertise is a key income source for the government, with contracts signed with several countries in recent years.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Why_Me

[Brusik 11]

Where do you think Belarus gets it's cheap gas and money from ? A banana tree ? Belarus is broke, it has been broke for a long time now. Belarus produces tractors, dairy products, and bread...nothing more and nothing less.

You really should try learning something about Russia, it's history, and it's neighbors if you plan on marrying a Russian. It's always good to know something about your mates country.

As far as "conspiracy theory's...I'm surprised you don't have "google search" on your laptop/pc...whatever. To many of us it's common knowledge.

Now let's take a look at where the criminal dictatorship in Belarus get's it's money.

http://udf.by/englis...upply-deal.html <--- This deal was signed two days before the last suedo presidential election in Belarus

"Belarus, Russia Sign Oil Supply Deal"

http://www.kommersan...eign_relations/

"Russia Offers Belarus Big Aid"

http://democraticbelarus.eu/node/1940

"A Loan from Russia: Unveiling the Likely Rationale"

http://law.by/work/E...A6?OpenDocument

"Russia ready to loan Belarus $9bn for NPP construction"

http://en.rian.ru/ru.../161930348.html <--- This was the last election just a few months ago

"Russia's Medvedev congratulates Belarus President Lukashenko on reelection"

http://en.rian.ru/ru...0/44576538.html <--- This is from the 2006 election in Belarus

"Putin congratulates Lukashenko on election victory"

http://www.google.co...f&aqi=&aql=&oq= <--- Fair elections in Belarus ?

Now I see why Georgia has protests.. They jealous that Russia supports Belarus.. Georgia won't take a dime from Russia.. but then they get their support from USA

[eekee 182]

Why Me, I have a Masters Degree in Russian Studies from a Russian university. I have also lived in Russia on and off for five years. My circle of friends in America is more or less comprised entirely of Russian literature and Russian politics PhD candidates of the top American universities. So I am not really sure what you are getting at, questioning my knowledge of Russia-related topics. That is definitely a new one. What are your qualifications? Ability to use google? Threesomes in Minsk?

I don't see how aid to a country that Russia considers its brother constitutes propping up a puppet government. Would you rather Russia NOT help Belarus and allow it to flounder? Belarus never really modernized. The economy was working better in Belarus during the fall of Soviet Union than in other parts of the USSR, and they decided not change much about the way things were run... but then the world kept on developing anyway. If Russia is helping Belarusians you know, not to starve--and these Belarusians include 1/4 of my extended family and I imagine your wife's entire family, etc.--I don't see why you're complaining.

Politicians call other politicians to congratulate each other all the time, regardless of feeling. It's called diplomacy. I don't see how ANY of this adds up to, "Russia supports Lukashenka and keeps him in power and without the big bag Kremlin, everything would be peachy in Belarus" rather than, "Russia wants people in Belarus to have food and gas."

Ukraine managed to have a revolution and Ukraine, I'd think, being a wealthier country, would be a country that would be even more in Russia's interest to keep as someone on the side of Russia, rather than NATO. Perhaps you should ask why the US and NATO and the EU haven't bothered to fund a revolution in Belarus like they did in Ukraine and Georgia, not question why the Kremlin gives Belarus a discount on oil and natural gas. I believe there was a time when the Kremlin wanted to stop giving Belarus that discount, and there was a huge diplomatic crisis because of it.

Edited May 24, 2011 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Why Me, I have a Masters Degree in Russian Studies from a Russian university. I have also lived in Russia on and off for five years. My circle of friends in America is more or less comprised entirely of the Russian literature and Russian politics departments of the top American universities. So I am not really sure what you are getting at, questioning my knowledge of Russia-related topics. That is definitely a new one. What are your qualifications? Ability to use google? Threesomes in Minsk?

I don't see how aid to a country that Russia considers its brother constitutes propping up a puppet government. Would you rather Russia NOT help Belarus and allow it to flounder? Belarus never really modernized. The economy was working better in Belarus during the fall of Soviet Union than in other parts of the USSR, and they decided not change much about the way things were run... but then the world kept on developing anyway. If Russia is helping Belarusians you know, not to starve--and these Belarusians include 1/4 of my extended family and I imagine your wife's entire family, etc.--I don't see why you're complaining.

Politicians call other politicians to congratulate each other all the time, regardless of feeling. It's called diplomacy. I don't see how ANY of this adds up to, "Russia supports Lukashenka and keeps him in power and without the big bag Kremlin, everything would be peachy in Belarus" rather than, "Russia wants people in Belarus to have food and gas."

Ukraine managed to have a revolution and Ukraine, I'd think, being a wealthier country, would be a country that would be even more in Russia's interest to keep as someone on the side of Russia, rather than NATO. Perhaps you should ask why the US and NATO and the EU haven't bothered to fund a revolution in Belarus like they did in Ukraine and Georgia, not question why the Kremlin gives Belarus a discount.

I'm going to guess my IQ is above 10, and I'm going to say yours is also. So let's please stop the bs at that.

Aid to Belarus...aid to a Kremlin installed murderous dictator. Now who's helping who here ? Do you think Belarusians are benefitting from Kremlin aid or the Kremlin installed dictator that runs Belarus ? Again before you answer those questions try to remember that both of us have an IQ above 10.

Let's take this slower shall we...I wouldn't want either of us to miss the boat on this one.

First you have a Kremlin installed dictator that was put in place with the hopes of Belarus joining Russia (which translates to Belarus being absorbed by Russia due to the fact chauvnist Russians believe Ukrainians and Belarusians are "Russians" and should be run from Moscow.)

Second you have said dictator murdering, beating, jailing opposition leaders, running fraudulent elections and then being congratulated for their election victory by...by who ekee ? After the OSCE and anyone with an IQ of 10 or above knows what a joke these elections in Belarus are...what leaders are going to congratulate Lukashenko on his election victory's ?

These country's did ekee

1) Russia

2) North Korea

3) Iran

4) Venezuela

5) Kyrgyzstan

6) Mongolia

7) China

8) Libya

Does anyone here see a pattern ?

Again ekee I have no idea where you did your "studies", but I would be asking for my money back if you still don't get it by now.

In order to "prop up a dictatorship" ekee...especially a broke one, you have to give said dictatorship money to survive. And again anyone that thinks Russia is giving a murderous dictator billions of dollars in interest free loans in order to help the people of said country really should have their head examined.

Now what happens if Russia stops supporting the murderous Kremlin installed dictator in Belarus ? First off the gas supply runs out for the fact Belarus can't afford to pay it's bill...which it can't afford it now anyways. No Russian loans, no gas, ....oh ekee what do you think the next answer will be ?

Here's a hint for ya.

Try no more Lukashenko

OK...that one was easy. Let's make the next one a bit more difficult shall we ?

If said dictator is gone...which is a given if said dictator can't pay his bills, then who is he replaced by ?

Try someone who can and will get Belarus into the modern world which includes joining the rest of the civilized world in those parts...dum dee dum... European Union.

Now that I have layed out the pieces the rest should be easy enough.

So the next time someone in Belarus gets their head smashed in right before being taken off to jail for the fact said person decided to wave an EU flag in public...well you can thank the Kremlin for that.

btw ekee I also worked in Russia, and know too well the typical Russian mindset as do a few others in this forum.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Why_Me

[eekee 182]

But WHY haven't the EU, NATO, and the US given money to someone who CAN knock Lukashenka out? It's obvious to me why Russia would want less NATO and EU in the region. (And IMO, the EU is a mess right now anyway. Who would want to join the EU, especially since it looks like the euro was a pretty crappy idea and so many EU countries are totally screwed right now.)

Obviously the original idea of a Russia-Belarus union hasn't really come to fruition and certainly not the way Lukashenka himself would have wanted. Russia and Belarus have huge issues between them. But it makes no sense for Russia to fund an opposition candidate/revolution in Belarus to bring more NATO/EU/US power to that region of the world.

And PS, most American/European middle aged white dudes who work in Russia know **** all about Russian culture besides where to find skanky girls and can't speak Russian, so that doesn't count as a qualification in my book.

Edited May 24, 2011 by eekee

[Brusik 11]

Aren't we allowed to talk about Georgia in these forums lol.......I must be using invisible ink..

Anyway Georgia will soon be in Nato and the EU.. I know this displeases the Kremlin

Edited May 24, 2011 by Brusik

[eekee 182]

Aren't we allowed to talk about Georgia in these forums lol.......I must be using invisible ink..

Anyway Georgia will soon be in Nato and the EU.. I know this displeases the Kremlin

It is RUB, not RUBG.

[Brusik 11]

It is RUB, not RUBG.

Where do the little Caucasus countries go to chit chat ... Maybe we need a name change to brug or gurb ...we do border both countries

Edited May 24, 2011 by Brusik

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

But WHY haven't the EU, NATO, and the US given money to someone who CAN knock Lukashenka out? It's obvious to me why Russia would want less NATO and EU in the region. (And IMO, the EU is a mess right now anyway. Who would want to join the EU, especially since it looks like the euro was a pretty crappy idea and so many EU countries are totally screwed right now.)

Obviously the original idea of a Russia-Belarus union hasn't really come to fruition and certainly not the way Lukashenka himself would have wanted. Russia and Belarus have huge issues between them. But it makes no sense for Russia to fund an opposition candidate/revolution in Belarus to bring more NATO/EU/US power to that region of the world.

http://charter97.org/ <--- But the West has given millions of dollars to someone who can lead Belarus without murdering the opposition.

Have you ever been to Belarus ekee ? If not, let me fill you in on a few things. First off Belarus has more KGB/Security Police per capita than any other nation in Europe. It's #1 in that dept.

Now the uncool thing about Belarus is that it learned the same trick Russia did from the Soviet times. "How to control a population". Do you remember when Medvedev ran for president ? Students and teachers were told how to vote. It's the same but worse in Belarus. Students who were found with opposition flyers were kicked out of the university. No school, no job, no nothing. All media is owned and controlled by the government aka Lukashenko. TV channels, news papers, radio channels. Private business is pushed out, taxed out, and utterly forced out by Lukashenko and his henchmen.

Prostitution...Luka's government not only works with the pimps that recruit women for middle east country's to sell their body's, his government provides the transportation. Common knowledge to any Belarusian with an IQ above 10. The government gets their cut, the pimps get theirs, and the girls bring back badly needed cash to Belarus. Right now the Belarusian ruble has been devaluated to 4,000+ rubles to 1 US dollar.

Now let's save the last for the most obvious by using one of your quotes in that post.... "Who would want to join the EU, especially since it looks like the euro was a pretty crappy idea and so many EU countries are totally screwed right now."

Ever been anywhere in Russia that wasn't Moscow or St. Petersburg ekee ? I don't think you have. Because anyone that has wouldn't even think of posting something like you did to begin with.

What would you like to compare first ekee ? Standard of living in Russia vs the EU ? Or should we go the other route and compare democracy and human rights in Russia vs the EU ?

Seriously ekee...and please don't take offense ...and I know I'm being a bit sarcastic...but do you actually read what you post on here ? I mean you are comparing Russia aka Banana Land to the EU.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Why_Me

[eekee 182]

Where do the little Caucasus countries go to chit chat ... Maybe we need a name change to brug

They can go to Europe and Eurasia. The culture in the Caucasus is very different from culture in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus, which share a lot of similarities. Also I don't think there are many Americans marrying someone from Tajikistan, anyway.

[Brusik 11]

They can go to Europe and Eurasia. The culture in the Caucasus is very different from culture in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus, which share a lot of similarities. Also I don't think there are many Americans marrying someone from Tajikistan, anyway.

Hmm did you know the biggest percentage of Georgia consists of Russians and Ukranians.. What is Tajikistan??? I agree not many Americans marry Georgians or even know of this country. Stalin as I recall is from Gali, Georgia.. I'm not sure how the culture is different because Georgia been under Russian Rule from 1922-1991.. It wasn't until the Rose Revolution did Georgia truly break away..

[eekee 182]

I wasn't comparing the Russia and the EU at all. You are reading something into what I wrote that isn't there. Did you read anything where I said that "Things in Russia are better than they are in the European Union"? (Although I actually have no desire to live in Western Europe ever.) Are conditions in the EU better than Russia, generally, as far as standard of living and human rights go? Sure, but Greece's economy is screwed, Ireland's not doing so hot, Iceland's only hope for their economy is to start a cute little tumblr blog to increase tourism. The Western European countries that are doing the best in Europe right now are the ones who elected to not adopt the Euro. When I talk to people from Spain, Italy, etc. the general consensus is that it just completely sucks right now and unemployment is 25% in some places. Joining the European Union and switching your currency over to the Euro just doesn't have the same cachet it did five years ago. And I doubt that the EU is going to be open to having even a free Belarus within its borders because it makes no economic sense for them to support any more Eastern European countries who quite possibly joined before they were really completely economically prepared.

And yes, I have been to other places in Russia. I wouldn't really want to live in another city in Russia besides St. Petersburg, but I also wouldn't want to live outside of a major city in the US, either.

I don't think Lukashenka is good in any way; like you have so generously stated, my IQ is over 10. But Russia isn't going to support a color-style revolution that would go against its own interests; countries just don't do that, ever. Which is my original point--the US has done the same thing, to an equal or perhaps even greater extent. To think that a country would do otherwise, especially a country that thinks of itself as a great power, is hopelessly naive.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Hmm did you know the biggest percentage of Georgia consists of Russians and Ukranians.. What is Tajikistan??? I agree not many Americans marry Georgians or even know of this country. Stalin as I recall is from Gali, Georgia.. I'm not sure how the culture is different because Georgia been under Russian Rule from 1922-1991.. It wasn't until the Rose Revolution did Georgia truly break away..

Apparently not all of us on here have studied Russian history....

Georgia and Russian ties go back well before the Russo - Turkish wars. Not only because of the Orthodox relgion that both country's share, but because Georgian and Russian nobility have married into each other time and time again over the years from the days of Novgorod in order to secure ties and treaty's between the two peoples.

I never majored in Russian history, but again I always thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

[eekee 182]

Hmm did you know the biggest percentage of Georgia consists of Russians and Ukranians.. What is Tajikistan??? I agree not many Americans marry Georgians or even know of this country. Stalin as I recall is from Gali, Georgia.. I'm not sure how the culture is different because Georgia been under Russian Rule from 1922-1991.. It wasn't until the Rose Revolution did Georgia truly break away..

I don't really know much about Georgian culture other than Georgians are supposedly loud and their food always makes me nauseous because it's so rich. But they do have a long history and culture of their own. My friend spent some time there on a Fulbright and he said dating Georgian girls was impossible because the culture was very conservative in that regard, but I don't really know.

Tajikistan is in Central Asia.

Apparently not all of us on here have studied Russian history....

Georgia and Russian ties go back well before the Russo - Turkish wars. Not only because of the Orthodox relgion that both country's share, but because Georgian and Russian nobility have married into each other time and time again over the years from the days of Novgorod in order to secure ties and treaty's between the two peoples.

I never majored in Russian history, but again I always thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

I doubt that it is even common knowledge that there is a Georgia besides the one above Florida.

Edited May 25, 2011 by eekee

[Brusik 11]

Apparently not all of us on here have studied Russian history....

Georgia and Russian ties go back well before the Russo - Turkish wars. Not only because of the Orthodox relgion that both country's share, but because Georgian and Russian nobility have married into each other time and time again over the years from the days of Novgorod in order to secure ties and treaty's between the two peoples.

I never majored in Russian history, but again I always thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

I only mentioned that i didn't think there was that much difference in culture, and people..Most Georgians speak Russian. These 2 countries been intermingling for centuries..

Edited May 25, 2011 by Brusik