Clashes between Muslims, Christians kill 5 in Cairo

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_egypt_sectarian_clashes

7 mins ago

CAIRO – Egypt's state television reports that nine people died in late night sectarian clashes in Cairo.

A mob of Egyptians from the ultraconservative Salafi trend of Islam on Saturday marched on a church in the low income neighborhood of Imbaba over rumors a woman was being held inside and prevented from converting to Islam.

In the ensuing scuffle, shots were fired and fire bombs were hurled and another church nearby was set on fire. A total of 144 were also injured.

On Sunday morning, a nearby six story building involved in the clashes was still smoldering, according to residents.

The clashes marked an escalation in tension between Egypt's Muslims and its Coptic Christian minority that has coincided with uncertainty since the ouster of the president in February.

[^_^ 5,021]

A mob of Egyptians from the ultraconservative Salafi trend of Islam on Saturday marched on a church in the low income neighborhood of Imbaba over rumors a woman was being held inside and prevented from converting to Islam.

Religion turns people into blithering idiots.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Religion turns people into blithering idiots.

A lot blithering idiots make religion their excuse.

[Vi-Jay 218]

A lot blithering idiots make religion their excuse.

+1

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Twelve killed as Muslim mobs burn Egyptian churches

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_egypt_sectarian_clashes

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press – 12 mins ago

CAIRO – Hundreds of Christians and Muslims hurled stones at each other in downtown Cairo on Sunday, hours after Muslim mobs set fire to a church and a Christian-owned apartment building in a frenzy of violence that killed 12 people and injured more than 200.

The deepening religious violence in military-ruled Egypt is exacerbating the lawlessness and disorder of the country's bumpy transition to democracy after three decades of autocratic rule under former President Hosni Mubarak was brought to an end in February.

Muslim youths attacked a large crowd of Coptic Christian protesters marching from the headquarters of Egypt's general prosecutor to the state television building overlooking the Nile, said Christian activist Bishoy Tamri. TV images showed both sides furiously throwing stones, including one Christian who held a large wooden cross in one hand while flinging rocks with another.

Scores were injured, but an army unit securing the TV building did nothing to stop the violence, Tamri said.

Hours earlier, mobs of ultraconservative Muslims attacked the Virgin Mary Church in the slum of Imbaba on the opposite side of the Nile. The attack was fueled by rumors that a Christian woman married to a Muslim man had been abducted by the church.

Residents said a separate mob of youths armed with knives and machetes attacked an apartment building several blocks away with firebombs.

"People were scared to come near them," said resident Adel Mohammed, 29, who lives near the Virgin Mary Church. "They looked scary. They threw their firebombs at the church and set parts of it ablaze."

The military deployed armored vehicles and dozens of troop carriers to cordon off a main street leading to the area. They halted traffic and turned away pedestrians. Men, women and children watching from balconies took photos with mobile phones and cheered the troops.

Islamic clerics denounced the violence, sounding alarm bells at the escalating tension during the transitional period following Mubarak's Feb. 11 ouster by a popular uprising.

"These events do not benefit either Muslim or Copts," Ahmed al-Tayyeb, the sheik of al-Azhar, told the daily Al-Ahram.

Interfaith relationships are taboo in Egypt, where the Muslim majority and sizable Christian minority are both largely conservative. Such relationships are often the source of deadly clashes between the faiths.

During the 18-day uprising that ousted Mubarak, there was a rare spirit of brotherhood between Muslims and Christians. Each group protected the other during prayer sessions in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the revolution.

But in the months that followed, there has been a sharp rise in sectarian tensions, fueled in part by a movement of ultraconservative Muslims known as Salafis who have become more active in Egypt.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Why_Me

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Very sad and heartbreaking to see another church in Egypt get burned and people killed. It was hundreds/thousand to how many in the church?

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Take religion out of the world, and we would have no wars. In the dark ages the Christian church committed horrendous crimes on humanity in the name of God, and now it's the Islamic crowd in the name of Allah. Same difference. The founding fathers of our great nation wanted the separation of religion and politics, which was a wise move, yet we only have to look at our presidential races in order to see the confrontation between a Christian minister, a practicing Mormon, and a guy they suspected to be a Muslim before they accused him of being not even an American.

If I had a say in this, no question or statement about a candidate's religion would be allowed. Any candidate who brings up religion in any way, form or shape is immediately disqualified for the job based on violating what the founding fathers found so essential for a free country.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Take religion out of the world, and we would have no wars. In the dark ages the Christian church committed horrendous crimes on humanity in the name of God, and now it's the Islamic crowd in the name of Allah. Same difference. The founding fathers of our great nation wanted the separation of religion and politics, which was a wise move, yet we only have to look at our presidential races in order to see the confrontation between a Christian minister, a practicing Mormon, and a guy they suspected to be a Muslim before they accused him of being not even an American.

If I had a say in this, no question or statement about a candidate's religion would be allowed. Any candidate who brings up religion in any way, form or shape is immediately disqualified for the job based on violating what the founding fathers found so essential for a free country.

IMO Mormonism is a cult and not a religion....so yeah I'd never vote for someone who was mormon. I think a fairly high percentage of Americans would agree with this hence Romney has very little chance.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Sousuke

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

IMO Mormonism is a cult and not a religion....so yeah I'd never vote for someone who was mormon. I think a fairly high percentage of Americans would agree with this hence Romney has very little chance.

I'd vote for a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Aethiest, etc. But not a mormon or someone from Scientology.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Sousuke

[Vi-Jay 218]

IMO Mormonism is a cult and not a religion....so yeah I'd never vote for someone who was mormon.

My wife and I were discussing that the other day. Romney's chances at winning Prez. I told her that many people view Mormonism as a cult. She asked why and I . I had some answers but not very in depth.

Do you mind providing your POV?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

My wife and I were discussing that the other day. Romney's chances at winning Prez. I told her that many people view Mormonism as a cult. She asked why and I . I had some answers but not very in depth.

Do you mind providing your POV?

There are a few things. One is the relation of the Mormon Church to its satellite businesses. Mind you all religions raise money, but its generally not organized as a corporation for profit.

Then you have the whole "hidden rituals" thing where a majority of the church body isn't in the know. The church teaches acceptance without understanding.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Sousuke

[Vi-Jay 218]

There are a few things. One is the relation of the Mormon Church to its satellite businesses. Mind you all religions raise money, but its generally not organized as a corporation for profit.

Then you have the whole "hidden rituals" thing where a majority of the church body isn't in the know. The church teaches acceptance without understanding.

What's the "hidden rituals" thing?

Is "acceptance without understanding" a nice way of saying brainwashing?

[Samoray 165]

Follow up on the story, the Army arrested about 200 people who were involved in the clashes and now they're waiting to appear in front of a military judge.

[thongd4me 69]

A lot blithering idiots make religion their excuse.

Currently I'm reading a fascinating book which has clarified a very dark area in history for me,

namely what went on in Germany during the Nazi regime, specifically from the point of view

of the German resistance against Hitler.

"Bonhoeffer" (Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy) by Eric Metaxas

Deitrich Bonhoeffer and his brother were members of a failed conspiracy to kill Hitler.

He was executed in a concentration camp in April 1945, just months before the end of the war.

The book was compiled from Bonhoeffer's daily journal as well as accounts from

relatives and friends who survived the war.

One fascinating anecdote gave proof of how cunning Hitler was.

He would never invade a country without a grand show of how he

was provoked into defending Germany from an attack perceived only by him.

If there was no attack forthcoming, he would manufacture one.

The story of the attack on the Christian church to "protect" a woman

that wanted to convert to Islam reminded me of the following:

Hitler had been given most of Czechoslovakia with Chamberlain's

(PM of Britain at the time) agreement. He then took over the

rest of Czechoslovakia and England didn't want to go to war

over that, but that provoked a warning from England that if

Hitler took over Poland, they WOULD go to war.

Hitler was insane so he thought he could bluff them indefinitely,

but he still needed an excuse to invade Poland.

He sent a group of gestapo across to the Polish side

and dressed one concentration camp prisoner in a German

uniform over on the German side who was already dead

from lethal injection. Then they shot him up to make it

look like he had been killed in action when the gestapo

started firing from across the Polish border.

After a heart-wrenching speech of indignation, Hitler sent a

massive invasion over the Polish border to defend the "fatherland"

which, to the consternation of many of his generals, included

genocide of civilians, both Jewish and Christian. Besides the

Jews, they killed the intelligentsia, anyone who was a leader

as well as any aristocrats they could find.

As far as the German church was concerned, it had been

neutralized/co-opted by 2 very effective weapons - the

threat of terror/death against any pastor who dared speak

against the Nazis and the withholding of funds because

the church had been traditionally funded by the state at

that time.

Deitrich Bonhoeffer and his "Confessing Church" were

ultimately forced to operate in secret. Bonhoeffer was

in a very unique position at that time, because he was

getting all the information about the genocide that the

German public could only guess at. His brother-in-law

was a high official in the ministry of justice. Unfortunately,

almost none of his ecumenical friends in foreign churches

believed that these things were happening either, because

there was no concrete proof. Even though there were

prisoners that had escaped the death camps who could

give first hand accounts, nobody anywhere believed it

until the camps were liberated and the remaining prisoners freed.

War is almost never about religion, it's because one group wants

something the other group has. Religion, however, is close to the

top of the list among excuses for going to war.

Iran and Iraq went to war, supposedly because each of them

didn't like the brand of Islam that the other one liked.

If the war had been conclusively won with one side occupying

the other, do you think the side that was occupied would still

have control over it's oil reserves?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Currently I'm reading a fascinating book which has clarified a very dark area in history for me,

namely what went on in Germany during the Nazi regime, specifically from the point of view

of the German resistance against Hitler.

"Bonhoeffer" (Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy) by Eric Metaxas

Deitrich Bonhoeffer and his brother were members of a failed conspiracy to kill Hitler.

He was executed in a concentration camp in April 1945, just months before the end of the war.

The book was compiled from Bonhoeffer's daily journal as well as accounts from

relatives and friends who survived the war.

One fascinating anecdote gave proof of how cunning Hitler was.

He would never invade a country without a grand show of how he

was provoked into defending Germany from an attack perceived only by him.

If there was no attack forthcoming, he would manufacture one.

The story of the attack on the Christian church to "protect" a woman

that wanted to convert to Islam reminded me of the following:

Hitler had been given most of Czechoslovakia with Chamberlain's

(PM of Britain at the time) agreement. He then took over the

rest of Czechoslovakia and England didn't want to go to war

over that, but that provoked a warning from England that if

Hitler took over Poland, they WOULD go to war.

Hitler was insane so he thought he could bluff them indefinitely,

but he still needed an excuse to invade Poland.

He sent a group of gestapo across to the Polish side

and dressed one concentration camp prisoner in a German

uniform over on the German side who was already dead

from lethal injection. Then they shot him up to make it

look like he had been killed in action when the gestapo

started firing from across the Polish border.

After a heart-wrenching speech of indignation, Hitler sent a

massive invasion over the Polish border to defend the "fatherland"

which, to the consternation of many of his generals, included

genocide of civilians, both Jewish and Christian. Besides the

Jews, they killed the intelligentsia, anyone who was a leader

as well as any aristocrats they could find.

As far as the German church was concerned, it had been

neutralized/co-opted by 2 very effective weapons - the

threat of terror/death against any pastor who dared speak

against the Nazis and the withholding of funds because

the church had been traditionally funded by the state at

that time.

Deitrich Bonhoeffer and his "Confessing Church" were

ultimately forced to operate in secret. Bonhoeffer was

in a very unique position at that time, because he was

getting all the information about the genocide that the

German public could only guess at. His brother-in-law

was a high official in the ministry of justice. Unfortunately,

almost none of his ecumenical friends in foreign churches

believed that these things were happening either, because

there was no concrete proof. Even though there were

prisoners that had escaped the death camps who could

give first hand accounts, nobody anywhere believed it

until the camps were liberated and the remaining prisoners freed.

War is almost never about religion, it's because one group wants

something the other group has. Religion, however, is close to the

top of the list among excuses for going to war.

Iran and Iraq went to war, supposedly because each of them

didn't like the brand of Islam that the other one liked.

If the war had been conclusively won with one side occupying

the other, do you think the side that was occupied would still

have control over it's oil reserves?

Do a "google" on Martin Luther and then read his views on Jews. Hitler was a big fan of Martin Luther.