Islamic Reformation

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Where are you guys getting this stuff from? Are you also teaching that Islam started on the Arabian peninsula and that its founder was Muhammad (pbuh), coz that's what you have to believe to believe that.

The Quran is the ahadith of God, so God has revealed it to all the Prophets and Messengers, not just Muhammad.

Before you start gloating and start offering advice perhaps you should remember what you posted. You have a habit of try to backtrack and evade but the QURAN was sent to one man only. It was not sent to anyone else. You should know this. You try to obfuscate but Muhammed (SAW) received the Quran, no one else. Jesus, Abraham, Moses and all the other prophets (PBUH) received revelations in their specific tongues. That's it. Now you are confusing the Quran with the Injil (Gospels), Zabur (Psalms) and Taurut (Torah). Islam was not first revealed to Muhammed (SAW), he was only the last of the prophets to receive THE WORD. The ahadith is separate from the Quran. They are the actions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammed (SAW) not GOD. The most important of these are the Hadith Qudsi which are Muhammed (SAW) quoting THE ALMIGHTY. All prophets set examples or their own so they have their own ahadith.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Is it really true that Saddlebronc is IR5FORMUMSIE? Or is that just some red herring thrown out there to bait, and possibly switch?

Quite frankly in all the fun and games, I lost track myself.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Forgive me, but what does that have to do with the secondary textual revelations?

Perhaps we are on different tracks. It is too late to elaborate further. Time to get reacquainted with the wife.

[Peikko 1,575]

A bag of peanuts actually sounds good right about now...unsalted of course with a coke.

Peanuts without salt? Heresy! I hope that's a Mexican coke too

[^_^ 5,021]

Or a Pepsi Throwback. Those rock!

[Peikko 1,575]

Or a Pepsi Throwback. Those rock!

I'm a Coke girl, Pespi is for woosies.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Where are you guys getting this stuff from? Are you also teaching that Islam started on the Arabian peninsula and that its founder was Muhammad (pbuh), coz that's what you have to believe to believe that.

The Quran is the ahadith of God, so God has revealed it to all the Prophets and Messengers, not just Muhammad.

You confuse the Quran with Islam. The Quran was transmitted via the Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) to Muhammed (pbuh) and no one else. That's Islamic dogma. Islam is the same religion that Abraham and Moses and all other prophets followed (pbut). It was not founded by Muhammed (pbuh), it is submission to HIS WILL and Islamic Dogma teaches that it started with Adam (pbuh). The Ahadith are examples and some of them would not and could not be revealed to earlier prophets since Moses would not have known about Jesus, for example. GOD would know about them but use of the term ahadith in relation THE ALMIGHTY is a bit odd. The Quran is the recitation of the word of GOD as well as a reminder of all the previous revelations. That's also Islamic dogma.

[Samoray 165]

Where are you guys getting this stuff from? Are you also teaching that Islam started on the Arabian peninsula and that its founder was Muhammad (pbuh), coz that's what you have to believe to believe that.

The Quran is the ahadith of God, so God has revealed it to all the Prophets and Messengers, not just Muhammad.

I would really love to know where are you getting your information from

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Peanuts without salt? Heresy! I hope that's a Mexican coke too

Iv'e never heard of no Mexican coke before.

[^_^ 5,021]

Iv'e never heard of no Mexican coke before.

I hear it's popular down near the border. I found it at a local Costco up here once (only once) and got it. Pretty good. But I can get Pepsi Throwback up here a lot more regularly.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Quran 6:82-92:

Those who believe, and do not pollute their belief with idol worship, have deserved the perfect security, and they are truly guided.

Such was our argument, with which we supported Abraham against his people. We exalt whomever we will to higher ranks. Your Lord is Most Wise, Omniscient.

And we granted him Isaac and Jacob, and we guided both of them. Similarly, we guided Noah before that, and from his descendants (we guided) David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. We thus reward the righteous.

Also, Zachariah, John, Jesus, and Elias; all were righteous.

And Ismail, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each of these we distinguished over all the people.

From among their ancestors, their descendants, and their siblings, we chose many, and we guided them in a straight path.

Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified.

Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers.

These are the ones guided by GOD; you shall be guided in their footsteps. Say, "I do not ask you for any wage. This is but a message for all the people."

They never valued GOD as He should be valued. Thus, they said, "GOD does not reveal anything to any human being." Say, "Who then revealed the scripture that Moses brought, with light and guidance for the people?" You put it down on paper to proclaim it, while concealing a lot of it. You were taught what you never knew - you and your parents. Say, "GOD (is the One who revealed it)," then leave them in their heedlessness, playing.

This too is a blessed scripture that we have revealed, confirming the previous scriptures, that you may warn the most important community and all those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter will believe in this (scripture), and will observe the Contact Prayers (Salat).

Quran 41:45:

Those who have rejected the Quran's proof when it came to them, have also rejected an Honorable book.

No falsehood could enter it, in the past or in the future; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

What is said to you is precisely what was said to the previous messengers. Your Lord possesses forgiveness, and He also possesses painful retribution.

If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."

We have given Moses the scripture and it was also disputed. If it were not for your Lord's predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, they harbor too many doubts.

I would really love to know where are you getting your information from

The Quran and decades of study with scholars predating the advent of Salafi Arab chauvinism in the late 1970's which changed a lot of what had been traditional, universal teachings.

[Peikko 1,575]

Iv'e never heard of no Mexican coke before.

It's in the old style coke bottles and made with sugar not corn syrup.

[Samoray 165]

Quran 6:82-92:

Those who believe, and do not pollute their belief with idol worship, have deserved the perfect security, and they are truly guided.

Such was our argument, with which we supported Abraham against his people. We exalt whomever we will to higher ranks. Your Lord is Most Wise, Omniscient.

And we granted him Isaac and Jacob, and we guided both of them. Similarly, we guided Noah before that, and from his descendants (we guided) David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. We thus reward the righteous.

Also, Zachariah, John, Jesus, and Elias; all were righteous.

And Ismail, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each of these we distinguished over all the people.

From among their ancestors, their descendants, and their siblings, we chose many, and we guided them in a straight path.

Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified.

Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers.

These are the ones guided by GOD; you shall be guided in their footsteps. Say, "I do not ask you for any wage. This is but a message for all the people."

They never valued GOD as He should be valued. Thus, they said, "GOD does not reveal anything to any human being." Say, "Who then revealed the scripture that Moses brought, with light and guidance for the people?" You put it down on paper to proclaim it, while concealing a lot of it. You were taught what you never knew - you and your parents. Say, "GOD (is the One who revealed it)," then leave them in their heedlessness, playing.

This too is a blessed scripture that we have revealed, confirming the previous scriptures, that you may warn the most important community and all those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter will believe in this (scripture), and will observe the Contact Prayers (Salat).

Quran 41:45:

Those who have rejected the Quran's proof when it came to them, have also rejected an Honorable book.

No falsehood could enter it, in the past or in the future; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

What is said to you is precisely what was said to the previous messengers. Your Lord possesses forgiveness, and He also possesses painful retribution.

If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."

We have given Moses the scripture and it was also disputed. If it were not for your Lord's predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, they harbor too many doubts.

The Quran and decades of study with scholars predating the advent of Salafi Arab chauvinism in the late 1970's which changed a lot of what had been traditional, universal teachings.

Ok i don't see anything in these verses refering that the Quran Specifically was revealed to other prophets but from what you're saying, i assume you don't believe that Moses PBUH came with a book called Torah ? and Issah PBUH came with the Engeel ?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Quran 6:82-92:

Those who believe, and do not pollute their belief with idol worship, have deserved the perfect security, and they are truly guided.

Such was our argument, with which we supported Abraham against his people. We exalt whomever we will to higher ranks. Your Lord is Most Wise, Omniscient.

And we granted him Isaac and Jacob, and we guided both of them. Similarly, we guided Noah before that, and from his descendants (we guided) David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. We thus reward the righteous.

Also, Zachariah, John, Jesus, and Elias; all were righteous.

And Ismail, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each of these we distinguished over all the people.

From among their ancestors, their descendants, and their siblings, we chose many, and we guided them in a straight path.

Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified.

Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers.

These are the ones guided by GOD; you shall be guided in their footsteps. Say, "I do not ask you for any wage. This is but a message for all the people."

They never valued GOD as He should be valued. Thus, they said, "GOD does not reveal anything to any human being." Say, "Who then revealed the scripture that Moses brought, with light and guidance for the people?" You put it down on paper to proclaim it, while concealing a lot of it. You were taught what you never knew - you and your parents. Say, "GOD (is the One who revealed it)," then leave them in their heedlessness, playing.

This too is a blessed scripture that we have revealed, confirming the previous scriptures, that you may warn the most important community and all those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter will believe in this (scripture), and will observe the Contact Prayers (Salat).

Quran 41:45:

Those who have rejected the Quran's proof when it came to them, have also rejected an Honorable book.

No falsehood could enter it, in the past or in the future; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

What is said to you is precisely what was said to the previous messengers. Your Lord possesses forgiveness, and He also possesses painful retribution.

If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."

We have given Moses the scripture and it was also disputed. If it were not for your Lord's predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, they harbor too many doubts.

The Quran and decades of study with scholars predating the advent of Salafi Arab chauvinism in the late 1970's which changed a lot of what had been traditional, universal teachings.

I had no idea Fatima Mernissi was a member of VJ.

The issue was whether the Quran was sent down before, the answer is no. The message was, but not the Quran itself. There is a difference.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Let's start with the basics. Hebrew speaking people called their holy book the Torah, a Hebrew word meaning "instruction". They would not have called it the "Quran", an Arabic word. The NT was originally written down in several languages. Non-Arabic speaking people have not called their holy book by an Arabic name.

The name Quran is the Arabic term for the Message that was conveyed to all the World. It is not exclusive of the prior revelations, although there are particulars in it that deal with the times the early Arab ummah lived in.

However, the Message revealed since Adam is the same, and that is what makes the Quran holy to Muslims, not its name or the name used for the earlier revelations. The prophets of God did not write the Word, they merely revealed it and lived it for the purpose of passing it on to the rest of humanity. And, since the rest of the world was not limited to the Injeel, the Torah and the Quran, but learned from messengers unnamed in languages unnumbered, we can be sure that there are more names given in more languages for the Word that we do not know.

Ok i don't see anything in these verses refering that the Quran Specifically was revealed to other prophets but from what you're saying, i assume you don't believe that Moses PBUH came with a book called Torah ? and Issah PBUH came with the Engeel ?

I had no idea Fatima Mernissi was a member of VJ.

The issue was whether the Quran was sent down before, the answer is no. The message was, but not the Quran itself. There is a difference.

There is no difference. The Quran makes that clear.

How old are you, please, if you don't mind? And are you a convert to Islam? If so, when did you convert?

Edited May 9, 2011 by Sofiyya