Islamic Reformation

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Samoray, you asked me where I get my information from. I'm curious to know where others get theirs. How about you?

[Samoray 165]

Since the first prophet of Islam was Adam, and Arabic was the language of the last prophet of Islam, the Quran and ahadith were delivered in many languages prior to Arabic. Arabic is the last language of the Quran, not its original language.

Identical is your word, not mine. A check of my posts would show that I've never used it. This debate started because someone said that Arabic was the original language of the Quran. I pointed out that the Quran was not the original book, nor Arabic the original language. The Message had been transmitted in countless languages over time in countless books with different names. All of them are the divine revelation for those who believe, all of them were the reminder.

then you shouldn't have said from the start, that the Quran ( which was revealed to Prophet Mohamed ) and Ahadith ( Prophet Mohamed's conversations with his companions ) were delivered in many languages prior to Arabic. , you're just arguing for the sake of argument, also in one of your posts you mentioned that many scholars have said that there was prophecies about prophet Mohamed in the Torah and the Engeel, well guess where did scholars get that from, they got it from the Quran ( Al-Saf 6 - And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!" )

You should seriously consider your sources, if it is said in the Quran and you say many scholars said, that means you don't know the Quran.

[Samoray 165]

Samoray, you asked me where I get my information from. I'm curious to know where others get theirs. How about you?

From the Quran and Hadith

[Sofiyya 1,687]

No, not arguing for the sake of arguing at all.

If there are prophecies in the Bible about the Prophet Muhammad, they are found in the Bible. Check it out.

Don't be arrogant, pup. I know the Quran, and not just in English.

I wonder, if you studied Islam, it's history, methodologies, laws and controversies for 50 years, do you really think you would be limited to the same information you have now?

then you shouldn't have said from the start, that the Quran ( which was revealed to Prophet Mohamed ) and Ahadith ( Prophet Mohamed's conversations with his companions ) were delivered in many languages prior to Arabic. , you're just arguing for the sake of argument, also in one of your posts you mentioned that many scholars have said that there was prophecies about prophet Mohamed in the Torah and the Engeel, well guess where did scholars get that from, they got it from the Quran ( Al-Saf 6 - And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!" )

You should seriously consider your sources, if it is said in the Quran and you say many scholars said, that means you don't know the Quran.

From the Quran and Hadith

All by yourself?

Edited May 10, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

( Al-Saf 6 - And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!" )

Confirming the law that came before.

We don't know what was in the original Torah and Injeel, but we know they're not the same as the Quran.

How do you know?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

If there are prophecies in the Bible about the Prophet Muhammad, they are found in the Bible. Check it out.

I've heard that some of the Chapters of John have been interpreted in this way. Where Christians reference the Holy Spirit, Muslims say it is Muhammad.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I've heard that some of the Chapters of John have been interpreted in this way. Where Christians reference the Holy Spirit, Muslims say it is Muhammad.

Weird, since Muhammad is neither holy nor a spirit.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Weird, since Muhammad is neither holy nor a spirit.

The original greek is " Paraclete" which has been interpreted by some as Ahmad.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The original greek is " Paraclete" which has been interpreted by some as Ahmad.

Yes, I do know about that. Much of what has been cited as prophetic re Muhammad is noted to be found in Deuteronomy, among other books.

[Samoray 165]

No, not arguing for the sake of arguing at all.

If there are prophecies in the Bible about the Prophet Muhammad, they are found in the Bible. Check it out.

Don't be arrogant, pup. I know the Quran, and not just in English.

I wonder, if you studied Islam, it's history, methodologies, laws and controversies for 50 years, do you really think you would be limited to the same information you have now?

All by yourself?

That's really great, but if there is a clear obvious verses in the Quran that mentions that there was prophecies about Prophet Mohamed in other scripts that God gave to prophets before him why would i need to check it out in the bible, all your studies in different branches are great but that's not the point really if it is in the Quran why do i need an opinion, i would only seek an opinion if there was a mystery in mentioning something in the Quran which is not the case almost all the time, the Quran is easy to comprehend even the English translation of it. but let me ask you what is difference between you with 50 years of history, methodologies and law studies and me in understanding what Islam is or in understanding the meanings of Quran ?, i have only Quoted verses from the Quran that proves all what i am saying.

Yeah all by myself and at school too and also in Arabic before English translation.

[Samoray 165]

Confirming the law that came before.

We don't know what was in the original Torah and Injeel, but we know they're not the same as the Quran.

How do you know?

The Quran was given to Prophet Mohamed over the years, not at one time, and many verses of it are depending on a real life situations that happened to Prophet Mohamed and his companions to correct them and give them the right advice so God would send Gebreel upon Prophet Mohamed with the verses, so that's another proof of the Quran not being identical to any other book that came before it.

That's how i know, but if you want me to compile to you all the verses in the Quran that are talking about the Quran and the prophets and all of there books and miracles, i am willing to do so

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I agree with you that the later prophets were revealed to the earlier prophets. IR5 doesn't agree with us.

If the Quran is so clear that all we need to do is read the verses, then why is my proof during our ongoing debate, supported by verses, not accepted by you?

50 years of formal study has armed me to understand when it is being corrupted. It's opened my mind to critical thinking, something too many Muslims shun. It's let me know that the religion is not one dependent on Arab norms and practice. It's allowed me the ability to separate mandates from the conditional, and equipped me to argue before jurists many times to save a life and prevent an injustice.

That's really great, but if there is a clear obvious verses in the Quran that mentions that there was prophecies about Prophet Mohamed in other scripts that God gave to prophets before him why would i need to check it out in the bible, all your studies in different branches are great but that's not the point really if it is in the Quran why do i need an opinion, i would only seek an opinion if there was a mystery in mentioning something in the Quran which is not the case almost all the time, the Quran is easy to comprehend even the English translation of it. but let me ask you what is difference between you with 50 years of history, methodologies and law studies and me in understanding what Islam is or in understanding the meanings of Quran ?, i have only Quoted verses from the Quran that proves all what i am saying.

Yeah all by myself and at school too and also in Arabic before English translation.

That's how i know, but if you want me to compile to you all the verses in the Quran that are talking about the Quran and the prophets and all of there books and miracles, i am willing to do so

But, with Allah, all things are possible, so you don't really know. You just think so.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

BTW, Samoray. I applaud you for taking on the Quran and the ahadith on your own. It's a very brave thing to do, and there is a basic purity about it that appealed to me in my youth. But, there is a cacophony of activity around the Quran, as there has always been, and it is a benefit, however chaotic.

[Samoray 165]

I agree with you that the later prophets were revealed to the later prophets. IR5 doesn't agree with us.

If the Quran is so clear that all we need to do is read the verses, then why is my proof during our ongoing debate, supported by verses, not accepted by you?

50 years of formal study has armed me to understand when it is being corrupted. It's opened my mind to critical thinking, something too many Muslims shun. It's let me know that the religion is not one dependent on Arab norms and practice. It's allowed me the ability to separate mandates from the conditional, and equipped me to argue before jurists many times to save a life and prevent an injustice.

But, with Allah, all things are possible, so you don't really know. You just think so.

I accept all the verses you have mentioned earlier but the problem is they are talking about the message, which is One God which we agree about, but you haven't brought any verses that said the Quran is the Torah or the Engeel.

I understand that Islam is not only for Arabs, there are more Muslims in the world than Arabs. i also understand that all prophets had the same message of guiding people to One God, I also understand that every prophet had a miracle, one of the miracles of our prophet Mohamed PBUH is the Quran, but i think IR5 agrees with us, i thought he did.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I accept all the verses you have mentioned earlier but the problem is they are talking about the message, which is One God which we agree about, but you haven't brought any verses that said the Quran is the Torah or the Engeel.

I understand that Islam is not only for Arabs, there are more Muslims in the world than Arabs. i also understand that all prophets had the same message of guiding people to One God, I also understand that every prophet had a miracle, one of the miracles of our prophet Mohamed PBUH is the Quran, but i think IR5 agrees with us, i thought he did.

Can we conclude that the Quran is not the Torah and Injeel? Not really. Nothing you posted is convincing that it's not, so it's clear that just posting verses is not enough to prove a point, nor is simply reading the Quran enough to qualify one to argue it substantially.

IR5 doesn't agree that the earlier prophets knew about the later prophets.

Do you know how many sharias there are in Islam?

Edited May 10, 2011 by Sofiyya