Islamic Reformation

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Just curious, how do you know that the Quran is still the original message. It appears to have been passed down orally to a few people and then a final copy was written by a Caliph long after the death of Muhammed, which in someways is similar to how the New Testament was packaged.

Do you mean we will see a series on the History Channel called "Banned from the Koran"?

I supposed that is better story than Joseph Smith and his "seer stones".

Edited May 9, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[Samoray 165]

Another ignored question that would explain a lot, if answered, please:

Do you disagree with the One Message, One God concept? If so, please post the ayat that tell us that God revealed directives that contradicted and betrayed those in the Quran. If not, the rest is elemental.

There is only one God, and if the Torah or Engeel or any other revelation existed today in it's original form, there would be no contradictions between them and the Quran,

The Quran was given to Prophet Mohamed over the years, not at one time, and many verses of it are depending on a real life situations that happened to Prophet Mohamed and his companions to correct them and give them the right advice so God would send Gebreel upon Prophet Mohamed with the verses, so that's another proof of the Quran not being identical to any other book that came before it.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

There is only one God, and if the Torah or Engeel or any other revelation existed today in it's original form, there would be no contradictions between them and the Quran,

The Quran was given to Prophet Mohamed over the years, not at one time, and many verses of it are depending on a real life situations that happened to Prophet Mohamed and his companions to correct them and give them the right advice so God would send Gebreel upon Prophet Mohamed with the verses, so that's another proof of the Quran not being identical to any other book that came before it.

I'm just wondering if you think previous versions of the message were corrupted, how can you be confident the Quran itself is still the Message.

There seems to be a precedent for corruption here.

[Samoray 165]

Just curious, how do you know that the Quran is still the original message. It appears to have been passed down orally to a few people and then a final copy was written by a Caliph long after the death of Muhammed, which in someways is similar to how the New Testament was packaged.

The Quran was written during the life of Prophet Mohamed PBUH but it was collected to become one book after his death, the process of collecting it included scripts that was written during the life of the prophet plus comparing all of them with what the companions memorized.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The Quran was written during the life of Prophet Mohamed PBUH but it was collected to become one book after his death, the process of collecting it included scripts that was written during the life of the prophet plus comparing all of them with what the companions memorized.

Sounds like a real probability of some corruption there. Like I said, the New Testament was assembled in a similar manner.

[natty bumppo 297]

Just wondering, if Quran is the word of God, why would your God be so insecure about idol worshipping. I mean, its God, not like he has to fear anything. And the Jihad and all that, what is that?

you mean like this?

Exodus 20:3-6

³ Do not have any other gods before me.

⁴ You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

⁵ You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

⁶ but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Sounds like a real probability of some corruption there. Like I said, the New Testament was assembled in a similar manner.

The New Testament was assembled from several hundred works, collected from the various Christian communities during the reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine. No true consensus was ever reached and no actual work has survived from that endeavor, although the effort did lead to the eventual codification of the New Testament.

[Samoray 165]

I'm just wondering if you think previous versions of the message were corrupted, how can you be confident the Quran itself is still the Message.

There seems to be a precedent for corruption here.

In the Quran God clearly declared that he will preserve it intact

Al-Hajar 9

We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

That might raise the question, why didn't God preserve the previous books too, if he did that, then there would've been no reason to send other prophets to guide people, so the reason God preserved the Quran is that it was being the last book with the last prophet.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

In the Quran God clearly declared that he will preserve it intact

Al-Hajar 9

We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

That might raise the question, why didn't God preserve the previous books too, if he did that, then there would've been no reason to send other prophets to guide people, so the reason God preserved the Quran is that it was being the last book with the last prophet.

I agree. That's what you and I have been saying the whole time.

Edited May 9, 2011 by IR5FORMUMSIE

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

...the reason God preserved the Quran is that it was being the last book with the last prophet.

And what of Joseph Smith and the Golden Plates?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There is only one God, and if the Torah or Engeel or any other revelation existed today in it's original form, there would be no contradictions between them and the Quran,

The Quran was given to Prophet Mohamed over the years, not at one time, and many verses of it are depending on a real life situations that happened to Prophet Mohamed and his companions to correct them and give them the right advice so God would send Gebreel upon Prophet Mohamed with the verses, so that's another proof of the Quran not being identical to any other book that came before it.

Identical is your word, not mine. A check of my posts would show that I've never used it. This debate started because someone said that Arabic was the original language of the Quran. I pointed out that the Quran was not the original book, nor Arabic the original language. The Message had been transmitted in countless languages over time in countless books with different names. All of them are the divine revelation for those who believe, all of them were the reminder.

I have that series, "Banned from the Bible". It's one of my favorites.

Do you mean we will see a series on the History Channel called "Banned from the Koran"?

I supposed that is better story than Joseph Smith and his "seer stones".

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

.... .... .... I'm OK now.

I really need to stop viewing this thread but I can't help it.

I'm becoming obsessed.

Don't let yourself get sucked into it. Do what I do...troll the regional forums and check out how many peeps are getting hosed by their foreign halves. It's always fun to read those threads, and say to yourself; "Suckers!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

In the Quran God clearly declared that he will preserve it intact

Al-Hajar 9

We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

That might raise the question, why didn't God preserve the previous books too, if he did that, then there would've been no reason to send other prophets to guide people, so the reason God preserved the Quran is that it was being the last book with the last prophet.

God sent prophets for thousands of years, beginning with Adam. Even if He had preserved the earlier editions, He would have still sent the Message throughout the globe.

One of the scholars that I work with is fond of saying that if the last prophet had been located on a Pacific island, Muslims would be arguing about how to wear their grass skirts.

Imagine what it would have been like if all the previous editions had been preserved. The examples of how to practice would have been so varied and reliant on where you lived, what customs you followed.

Gee, much like today.

There is an Arab chauvinism that has crept into belief and practice through Saudi money over the last couple of decades,emphasizing the superiority of Arabic and Arab norms over the Message. Those of us who have been practicing, learning Muslims for longer see the changes, and what converts and newer Muslims are learning is polluted with that. It's almost like they are prevented form seeing anything other than the pollution. It's rather sad, really. It's also why there is so much debate over small things where there used to be much less.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

In the Quran God clearly declared that he will preserve it intact

Al-Hajar 9

We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

That might raise the question, why didn't God preserve the previous books too, if he did that, then there would've been no reason to send other prophets to guide people, so the reason God preserved the Quran is that it was being the last book with the last prophet.

The New Testament is similar. In fact it provides warning about anything that follows it.

[Vi-Jay 218]

Don't let yourself get sucked into it. Do what I do...troll the regional forums and check out how many peeps are getting hosed by their foreign halves. It's always fun to read those threads, and say to yourself; "Suckers!

Thanks for the tip.