Beware if you travel alone to the Philippines

[rlogan 2,036]

Giving money to beggars is illegal too in some places here. In the city of Manila, at least, I know it is. I think it must be a city ordinance.

Thanks for pointing that out. One of the things that really aggravates me is being poked relentlessly by them. It's one thing to beg, but another to harass me by poking me in the back over and over again while I am standing in line at the pharmacy. I definitely do not give money to people who do that to me.

I learned that telling them to stop was not enough. But if you start poking them in return, they're so shocked they run away. If it's illegal I can just start calling for the cops.

Some Old Guy-

Don't worry. That won't stop them from asking for even more money when you come to marry your rich Kano. Don't expect any gratitude then either, as you will be just doing your duty as a good daughter: "Don't forget us when you go to America!"

Yea, one of the most depressing things for a lot of people caught up in this manipulation is that no matter how much you give, you are made to feel bad. No sooner have you handed over the money for school supplies and some other emergency happens.

If you give money for one person, then you are made to feel guilty for not giving the same amount to the other 38 relatives. Showing gratitude would be the manipulator admitting that you have done something that is not your obligation to do. The game is to perpetually keep you in a position of feeling obligated.

It's a profession manipluators learn, and there's nothing you can do except say "no". You can exhaust yourself trying to reason with them, but they know better than you do that what they are doing is wrong. They know money does not grow on trees here. They only pretend so because admitting you work for money means they do not deserve it.

So just don't waste your energy. Say "no", and that's the end of it.

[Steve&Fe 13]

Woah.... White people ?More like anybody from abroad in general..I am filipino/American born and raised in Hawaii.When I first met my wife family we invited them for dinner only mom ,dad, and her brothers wives and kids cause the brothers work abroad.We invited them only. When we are visiting my wife family in Mindanao we always stay at a hotel so we don't feel obilgated to anything.I always tell her the budget for the trip so she knows what we can spend per day.At the end of my trip I always give the rest of the money to her and just having 100.00 usd.and credit cards in my pocket when I get home.. Bottom line anybody from abroad is consider the cash cow and they gonna milk you cause they know they can .They are not looking at the color of your skin more like the dollars sign on your forehead..

I had used the term 'white guy' because that's generally the case but your absolutely right..it has nothing to do with skin color AND seldom ,if ever, does in 'so called' racial disputes. Its more about attitudes, culture and 'victim mentality' (imo) than anything else. For myself, I had no problem helping the family when needed and have MANY MANY times..but its the total lack of gratitude..that totally jaded me...and the screams of poverty fall on my now deaf ears..for example..I hired a cousin to do some concrete work..he was very good and I paid him more than he had EVER been paid..trouble was getting him to just show up to work...Sitting on the street corner "kicking it" with his Trike bros was more important than feeding his family! Because I needed the work done and he was costing ME money, I had no choice but to fire him. Of course I immediately was a 'kuripot puti lalaki'...I didn't understand "Pilipino culture"...blah blah blah...Three years here and I'm MORE than ready to go home....

[rlogan 2,036]

I had used the term 'white guy' because that's generally the case but your absolutely right..it has nothing to do with skin color AND seldom ,if ever, does in 'so called' racial disputes. Its more about attitudes, culture and 'victim mentality' (imo) than anything else. For myself, I had no problem helping the family when needed and have MANY MANY times..but its the total lack of gratitude..that totally jaded me...and the screams of poverty fall on my now deaf ears..for example..I hired a cousin to do some concrete work..he was very good and I paid him more than he had EVER been paid..trouble was getting him to just show up to work...Sitting on the street corner "kicking it" with his Trike bros was more important than feeding his family! Because I needed the work done and he was costing ME money, I had no choice but to fire him. Of course I immediately was a 'kuripot puti lalaki'...I didn't understand "Pilipino culture"...blah blah blah...Three years here and I'm MORE than ready to go home....

There are things in many historic cultures that are not to be admired. Cannibalism. Incest. Physical abuse. Human sacrifice. Polygamy. (Well, that one might not be so bad ) - and in this case they can't have it both ways.

You can't claim to want the good things about American culture without actually practicing the things that create it. Wealth is a function of industry, sacrifice, thrift, planning, etc. so don't give me that B.S. about you "being poor" and me "having money" as if it fell out of the sky on me by accident and not on you.

There are plenty of Filipinos that work hard, sacrifice, and plan ahead. But they aren't the one's "kicking it" with the Trike bros. on the corner.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wealth is a function of industry, sacrifice, thrift, planning, etc. so don't give me that B.S. about you "being poor" and me "having money" as if it fell out of the sky on me by accident and not on you.

There are plenty of Filipinos that work hard, sacrifice, and plan ahead. But they aren't the one's "kicking it" with the Trike bros. on the corner.

Poverty is a condition, not a lifestyle.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Poverty is a condition, not a lifestyle.

I disagree. Poverty is an attitude, and a way of life.

[graceroxas 17]

When the current PHL Prez and most presidents of the past praise encourage the "hero worship" of the OFW's, I don't see this problem being fixed. Until the mindset is to NOT depend on remittances as a major source of economic growth, nothing will change.

+1 on this.

[graceroxas 17]

Thanks for pointing that out. One of the things that really aggravates me is being poked relentlessly by them. It's one thing to beg, but another to harass me by poking me in the back over and over again while I am standing in line at the pharmacy. I definitely do not give money to people who do that to me.

I learned that telling them to stop was not enough. But if you start poking them in return, they're so shocked they run away. If it's illegal I can just start calling for the cops.

I was at the embassy yesterday and experienced a version of this aggressive behavior. Not by beggars but by some enterprising touts who found a way to make money from people who neglected to read the embassy guidelines about not bringing electronic devices inside.

It doesn't work if you just ignore them. Apparently,they've decided that if you're the fiancee or spouse visa type, you're clueless by default and they have to "help" you. They'll also scam you into buying black ball pens, as if the embassy cares if you use black or blue (They don't). That one almost worked. I actually checked the ink of my pen

I'm surprised the embassy doesn't do much to regulate these people. It's almost a cottage industry outside the consulate gates.

Grace

Edited May 17, 2011 by graceroxas

[gretchen_darren 67]

to some people, poverty is a way of being. they cannot get out of the pverty they are in. No matter how hard they try to get ahead. You just have to find those who want the lucky break in life to break out from the rut of life they are in. The biggest problem of the poverty is the economic base. Lifting one person out of poverty is great, but if the ability to continnue earning is not there, the person falls back again. While villages and puroks need to change. the northern section of the phillipines is very well off. the further south you go, the worse it gets. Manila people make 300k to 400k pesos a year. Go south to Mindanao and people only make 50k pesos a year if that much. There are some who make 4k to 40k pesos a year and work 15 hours a day 6 days a week. These people are not pooor and poverty because they are sitting around. They are poor because they are being paid what the area can support which is below normal wage earning levels in other areas because of lack of tourism or lack of industry. I have seen the poverty. I have been to areas most would dare not go. these people want out of poverty, but the area cannot sustain the level of income they want. change the industry, change the income earning. in time you will change the people. Filipinos are NOT lazy by nature. they are very very hard working. the biggest problem they have is NOT being able to afford a higher education or having to chose which family member gets the college degree.

I am sorry, but it just boils my blood when people write off the situation without seeing the problem, the issue, and the cure. Gave a man some food, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime, Help an man to improve himself, he becomes an asset to society.

[Steve&Fe 13]

to some people, poverty is a way of being. they cannot get out of the pverty they are in. No matter how hard they try to get ahead. You just have to find those who want the lucky break in life to break out from the rut of life they are in. The biggest problem of the poverty is the economic base. Lifting one person out of poverty is great, but if the ability to continnue earning is not there, the person falls back again. While villages and puroks need to change. the northern section of the phillipines is very well off. the further south you go, the worse it gets. Manila people make 300k to 400k pesos a year. Go south to Mindanao and people only make 50k pesos a year if that much. There are some who make 4k to 40k pesos a year and work 15 hours a day 6 days a week. These people are not pooor and poverty because they are sitting around. They are poor because they are being paid what the area can support which is below normal wage earning levels in other areas because of lack of tourism or lack of industry. I have seen the poverty. I have been to areas most would dare not go. these people want out of poverty, but the area cannot sustain the level of income they want. change the industry, change the income earning. in time you will change the people. Filipinos are NOT lazy by nature. they are very very hard working. the biggest problem they have is NOT being able to afford a higher education or having to chose which family member gets the college degree.

I am sorry, but it just boils my blood when people write off the situation without seeing the problem, the issue, and the cure. Gave a man some food, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime, Help an man to improve himself, he becomes an asset to society.

I'm sorry but your hypothesis on poverty in the Philippines is so full of holes I don't know where to start! You state you have SEEN the poverty..well I LIVE in it. I'd sure like to know where you get your figures? I know NO ONE that even comes close to making 300-400 thousand pesos a year in the Manila area. Yes..I'm sure a few thousand VERY skilled, high paying jobs exist BUT there are more than 16 million people in Manila and the MAJORITY don't make 25% of your claims! My wife is highly educated, worked in a major university..and made 100 thousand a year..six days a week..IN THE MANILA AREA.

The problem is very simple in the Philippines..CORRUPTION.

The analogy I like to use is Japan,South Korea, and the Philippines. All three we decimated by war AT THE SAME TIME! Japan and South Korea came out of the ashes to become two of the wealthiest countries on earth..the Philippines entered a bottomless third world stink hole. At one time the Philippines was the largest exporter of rice in the world..now they're the largest IMPORTER and just one bad crop away from famine! WHY? CORRUPTION..plain and simple. BTW ..I've TRIED to teach a Filipino how to fish..not interested..so that little hypothesis doesn't fly either. Take the pinoy OUT of the Philippines and ,yes, they are hard workers..within there own country..nope! When polled 80% of Filipinos stated they would LEAVE there country if they could only get the 'golden ticket' That alone tells you the totoo reality of life here.

[gretchen_darren 67]

Sorry if I have offended you. I have friends and family down in the southern Mindanao/leyte region. I have spent time there and not in Manila. I only know what I have been told or seen of the Luzon region. The Visayan region, I have spent time in.

the figures I got are based on the philippine poverty report. And based on which 10 provinces have the worst poverty and which have improved the most. I feel for you living in it. I was down in Mindanao area. I have studied and understand the problems of the philippines. The changes came about because of the national debt the country has. It is HUGE. the Philippines is a great country. Please note the pesos stated is yearly made, not monthly. Any you slice it though, it is poor. hehe, trying to teach a filipino to fish is like teaching a southerner how to drawl. It comes naturally to them. By the time a filipino is old enough to walk, he is old enough to fish. I understand and see where you are coming from. But we all agree, Filipino and Filipina are proud people. No matter how bad it is, they still love their country. And who are we to judge the way they choose to live?

[Steve&Fe 13]

Sorry if I have offended you. I have friends and family down in the southern Mindanao/leyte region. I have spent time there and not in Manila. I only know what I have been told or seen of the Luzon region. The Visayan region, I have spent time in.

the figures I got are based on the philippine poverty report. And based on which 10 provinces have the worst poverty and which have improved the most. I feel for you living in it. I was down in Mindanao area. I have studied and understand the problems of the philippines. The changes came about because of the national debt the country has. It is HUGE. the Philippines is a great country. Please note the pesos stated is yearly made, not monthly. Any you slice it though, it is poor. hehe, trying to teach a filipino to fish is like teaching a southerner how to drawl. It comes naturally to them. By the time a filipino is old enough to walk, he is old enough to fish. I understand and see where you are coming from. But we all agree, Filipino and Filipina are proud people. No matter how bad it is, they still love their country. And who are we to judge the way they choose to live?

Believe me..you did not offend me but your facts are incorrect..AND yes I meant yearly salary too! You also appear to have completely missed my point about 'teaching a man to fish'. I will also disagree about the filipino being proud of their country. Most want to LEAVE! They have polluted the land, air, and sea. The indigenous filipino wildlife is virtually extinct. Garbage is everywhere..etc,etc..sure doesn't sound like pride in their country too me! It's a failed society that has been ruled by other countries for the last 500 years...for 400 years it was a Spanish colony ADMINISTERED by Mexico...Filipino culture is MEXICAN culture with a little Chinese, Malay thrown in. Philippines-Mexico..almost a mirror image. Believe what you want, no sweat off me.

[Steve&Fe 13]

Interesting link if you care to read...http://restyo.blogspot.com/2004/10/when-mexico-ruled-philippines.html

[gretchen_darren 67]

hehe, the are not my facts, but the fact from the NSCB government branch.

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/poverty/default.asp

this may be the reason why what is seen inside the country by you is more apparent then to those of us studying the reports, and living/visiting the more southern features.

Yes, there is garbage everywhere. This is a trait of the Filipinos. This is not lack of pride in their country. The pride is in their heritage and nationalism. IT is a different sort of pride. thee are many filipinos who want the land cleaned up. The philippine governement maintains only filipinos or filipino companies can own land in the philippines. This is returning things back to them. However, the major problem remains the rich staying rich, while not caring about the rest of the family. Many "common" filipinos hate their own economic society because it goes against their culture. It is easier for them to adapt eslewhere then to tolerate their own people abusing them as workers and corruption of the "rich". this is the main reason to beware of things in the Philipiines. Becuase of the abuse of the rich, many do not care, and if they can get away with getting money from you who is a tourist, they feel a little better. In the philippines there is very little "middle class". there are the "rich", the "managers", then "the workers". What you see in the Philippines is a true reflection of Mexico as well. they are way too similar, Mexico is very very close to me.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm sorry but your hypothesis on poverty in the Philippines is so full of holes I don't know where to start! You state you have SEEN the poverty..well I LIVE in it. I'd sure like to know where you get your figures? I know NO ONE that even comes close to making 300-400 thousand pesos a year in the Manila area. Yes..I'm sure a few thousand VERY skilled, high paying jobs exist BUT there are more than 16 million people in Manila and the MAJORITY don't make 25% of your claims! My wife is highly educated, worked in a major university..and made 100 thousand a year..six days a week..IN THE MANILA AREA.

The problem is very simple in the Philippines..CORRUPTION.

The analogy I like to use is Japan,South Korea, and the Philippines. All three we decimated by war AT THE SAME TIME! Japan and South Korea came out of the ashes to become two of the wealthiest countries on earth..the Philippines entered a bottomless third world stink hole. At one time the Philippines was the largest exporter of rice in the world..now they're the largest IMPORTER and just one bad crop away from famine! WHY? CORRUPTION..plain and simple. BTW ..I've TRIED to teach a Filipino how to fish..not interested..so that little hypothesis doesn't fly either. Take the pinoy OUT of the Philippines and ,yes, they are hard workers..within there own country..nope! When polled 80% of Filipinos stated they would LEAVE there country if they could only get the 'golden ticket' That alone tells you the totoo reality of life here.

I agree that corruption plays a major part of why the country has not been able to become more developed, but I'd like to know the source of this poll for one? Secondly, even if the poll is accurate, I'm willing to bet that most of them would choose economic opportunity over merely leaving the country. There are a lot of Filipinos living and working abroad, who make the PI their top destination stop for vacationing. Many return to live there in retirement and many expats living there from all over the world.

It is, in many ways like Mexico and corruption definitely permeates into the whole country's psyche, but I'm not so cynical to believe that a great number of visionaries within that country are working hard to change that and transform the country for the better.

Edited May 18, 2011 by 8TBVBN

[graceroxas 17]

I don't think there is one big hypothesis that would explain why PH is what it is now. Let's not oversimplify things. It could all just be a bad stew of so many things: corruption, weak government policies, bad leadership, misplaced religiosity and superstition,economic inequity, colonial mentality,counterproductive cultural traits, ad nauseam...

Tomes have been written about each of those topics and you guys propose to resolve the question once and for all in a VJ forum thread?

A few years of living and traveling around the country hardly qualifies one to become an expert. I've been here for all of 36 years, since birth that is, and I don't feel remotely qualified to pontificate about what's wrong with the country in general. I just do what I can within my experience.

Grace

Edited May 18, 2011 by graceroxas