Discrimination against women

[Wanda and Amel 17]

It is sad. I can understand the OP's frustration. I am 11 years older than my fiance. I was 6 years older than my ex-husband. I do not consider myself a cougar. I do not go out looking to fall in love with a younger man. It just happens. And to be quite frank, the younger men usually are the ones that initiate a relationship. Why? While I know that I am not 20 years old; I don't look my age, I work out and take care of myself.

I too am concerned what a CO may say about our age difference. In Cuba, where my fiance is from, age differences are not really an issue. It is not frowned upon. My family and my fiance's family do not appear concerned about the age difference. Hopefully, that will be the case with the CO.

Good luck to all those that have age differenced!!!

[I+H 11]

It is sad. I can understand the OP's frustration. I am 11 years older than my fiance. I was 6 years older than my ex-husband. I do not consider myself a cougar. I do not go out looking to fall in love with a younger man. It just happens. And to be quite frank, the younger men usually are the ones that initiate a relationship. Why? While I know that I am not 20 years old; I don't look my age, I work out and take care of myself.

I too am concerned what a CO may say about our age difference. In Cuba, where my fiance is from, age differences are not really an issue. It is not frowned upon. My family and my fiance's family do not appear concerned about the age difference. Hopefully, that will be the case with the CO.

Good luck to all those that have age differenced!!!

I wish you both the best of luck! I wouldn't let all this talk get to you. I honestly feel if we all keep faith and have true hearts and good intentions, we will be granted our heart's desire. Age, race, religion, culture, country, nothing will get in the way. Have faith!

[nurse1967 287]

I think the OP's question has been answered. In Egypt, you will RARELY find two native Egyptians married where the woman is 20 years older than her husband. So, in the eyes of the CO, they already know Egypt is a high fraud country, then you add to it the ABNORMAL age gap and you have the perfect recipe for FRAUD. Now does it make sense? Of course I believe that once in a blue moon there can be an exception to that rule but rarely. Egyptian men are very charming and they can charm the whiskers off a cat if that's their intention. You must also look at your fiance's background to get answers. What is his financial situation? Is he destitute or in a low paying job and just surviving? Is his family poor too? What's his education level? All these things can point to why he is looking at a middle aged, well established woman for a way out. Sad but true. Best luck to everyone going through Cairo because it is not an easy road. My husband and I are age appropriate, come from similar socioeconomic backgrounds, he had no criminal background, never been out of Egypt before, well established as a teacher for 14 years and still we got AP. I wish I could say it's discrimination but I really don't think it is. I think it's the USA trying to somewhat protect itself and even then they often fall short.

[Hatem&Zeinab 30]

calling it discrimination against women is bull ######. im sorry but it is.they have nothing against a woman,or even an older woman.the truth is middle eastern men by nature think the younger the woman the better.its a cultural thing and has been going on forever here,so of course its going to raise red flags and questions when a young man goes against his " nature " and gets married / engaged to an older woman.

lets not forget to a CO,EVERYONE is committing fraud based on different grounds,age is one of them.if youre so sure of your relationship,frontload and go in with the mentality that you want the visa and you will get it.maybe try looking at it from unbiased point of view as hard as it is?

PS: im the middle eastern end of the deal so trust me,i know what im talking about

[/quote

I agree with you on this. For cultural reasons, men in the middleeast wouldn't accept the idea of getting married to an older woman. It can happen anywhere in the world, but definitely not in the middleeast. The bigger the age difference is, the more it makes it hard to believe. Consular officers in Egypt are very aware of this kind of cultural differences, and they definitely put it into consideration. Other factors in the case, play a role too. Like how did you meet? How long? Family knowledge about the marriage? etc.

[Aztec&Taino 144]

I have sympathy for the OP as I have often thought that, many times, consuls' decisions are both tainted by sexism and social norms. Yet, there is a point to the fact that consuls are trained to "look" for fraud and signs of a relationship that does not follow the culture's social norms. In consequence, relationships that do not follow such patterns are scrutinized more carefully. An age difference between a man and a woman is one of such signs. Particularly if the woman is the older of the two and even more so if the age difference is significant. Also, if the Embassy or Consulate is already a "difficult" one because of having high rates of fraud, then the more reason to be suspicious.

To the OP, I hope you find a way to be together with your loved one.

Best wishes!

[queen01 0]

calling it discrimination against women is bull ######. im sorry but it is.they have nothing against a woman,or even an older woman.the truth is middle eastern men by nature think the younger the woman the better.its a cultural thing and has been going on forever here,so of course its going to raise red flags and questions when a young man goes against his " nature " and gets married / engaged to an older woman.

lets not forget to a CO,EVERYONE is committing fraud based on different grounds,age is one of them.if youre so sure of your relationship,frontload and go in with the mentality that you want the visa and you will get it.maybe try looking at it from unbiased point of view as hard as it is?

PS: im the middle eastern end of the deal so trust me,i know what im talking about

I know our relationship is real but what can you do when the embassy in egypt will not look at your paperwork, they ignore your calls, emails. I was told that if I wanted to be with my fiance, I would just have to move to Egypt. Which I do not mind because I really like Egypt, but Im stubborn and I dont feel I should leave my country, my job, my friends and family based on 2 peoples opinion. I have written letters everywhere but since 2009 all I have gotten is silence from everywhere. We were not asked for anything, no questions, nothing at all but yet they kept saying we were in AP.

[thelastpetitioner 218]

I know our relationship is real but what can you do when the embassy in egypt will not look at your paperwork, they ignore your calls, emails. I was told that if I wanted to be with my fiance, I would just have to move to Egypt. Which I do not mind because I really like Egypt, but Im stubborn and I dont feel I should leave my country, my job, my friends and family based on 2 peoples opinion. I have written letters everywhere but since 2009 all I have gotten is silence from everywhere. We were not asked for anything, no questions, nothing at all but yet they kept saying we were in AP.

lets face it,with this age gap and your first try with the embassy,it seems like cr-1 is the best optipon.

i personally would move to egypt for one year,no longer,get married and gather evidence and try for a cr-1.in middle east marriag has a higher sense of priority compared to engagement.its a bigger deal,people still look at it as a life long commitment,so i think that would give COs enough to approve you within the next try if you get denied this time.

i know how hard AP can be,but hey youre not denied.

my point is,understand where the COs and consulate are coming from.unfortunately some middle easterns think once they move to america it will be like heaven,72 virgins waiting to serve them,without them having to work a day or have a worry,thats why consulates use long APs and denials to seperate people who are in it for the greencard from real couples.

[Tim/Mav 305]

I don't know how far this would go. But, I never heard you mention getting your Congressman involed. I never had to go that far yet. I just wait, but I see your Timelime and see you waited a long time. You have a right as a USC to get a honest Answer from Egypt. You paid the Fees like everyone else.

[queen01 0]

almost every middle eastern man AND woman goes through AP.age difference is irrelevant

Yes I understand lots of women get taken. Does marriage come with a guarantee? I work for the court system and I get hundreds of divorces coming thru my desk and sometimes they have been married 1 month. Difference is they the same age and nationality. I have seen divorces of people who do not even speak the same language. Is this fraud on UCIS? I have seen people come to the court house to get married, decrepid old men with 18-20 year old girls. The man can not even walk by himself. Is this fraud on UCIS? Just because I marry a person of my age and nationality does not give me any guarantee as to the lenght of my marriage. I trust my Arab fiance more than I would trust one of my same nationality, religion, etc. The only thing that is guaranteed in life is that you will someday die, other than that nothing is guaranteed.

[Boiler 46,078]

I know our relationship is real but what can you do when the embassy in egypt will not look at your paperwork, they ignore your calls, emails. I was told that if I wanted to be with my fiance, I would just have to move to Egypt. Which I do not mind because I really like Egypt, but Im stubborn and I dont feel I should leave my country, my job, my friends and family based on 2 peoples opinion. I have written letters everywhere but since 2009 all I have gotten is silence from everywhere. We were not asked for anything, no questions, nothing at all but yet they kept saying we were in AP.

But you expect your SO to do what you do not want to do?

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Topic has been moved from K-1 Visa Forum to General Immigration Discussion forum as the issue involved is not K-1 specific

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The word "discrimination" gets a bad rap. Discrimination is only bad when it's unjustified. When you choose orange juice instead of beer with your breakfast then you're discriminating, but few would accuse you of doing it without justification. Some things are not always equal.

Consular officers in some countries do frequently deny visas when the male beneficiary is significantly younger than the female petitioner. If it was only one or two consular officers at each post then you might have a case that's it's unjustified discrimination. When all of the consular officers at that post are doing it then it's not just a simple matter of abuse of their discretion - it's a matter of policy. Consular officers don't make policy, so if there's still a suspicion that the policy is unjustified discrimination then it would have to be either the visa section chief or the consul general who discriminating. When the policy has survived the coming and going of several executive level staff members then it's highly likely that there's a sound basis for the policy. Otherwise, the policy would change with a new visa section chief or consul general.

Consulates do find out what happens to the cases they approve. For example, if the number of those cases that end in divorce within the first two years is statistically higher than the average divorce rate for either the US or the beneficiary's home country then something is wrong, and they are going to look for the common thread.

We aren't privy to the internal policies of each consulate, but I strongly suspect they have statistical evidence to back up their policy of denying visas when there is a large age difference, and the female petitioner is the elder. When you know that policies like this exist then you can either curse it as being unfair, or you can do whatever you need to do to make sure that your case stands head and shoulders above the others, and is among the small percentage that get approved. When something is a red flag at a particular consulate then it's because there's statistical evidence that it's an indicator of potential fraud.

[mari&Ryan 93]

I wonder why if it is not custom that in MENA countries young men would marry to women much older than them. Then why those same men would select a USC woman to have a relationship or to get married. Why don’t look for women much closer to their age as they would do in their own country. Why a US embassy or consulate knowing how those MENA societies work, would consider just normal without any shadow of doubt the relationship where the USC woman is quite older than her MENA fiancé or husband. It’s something to consider more objectively for any USC woman wanting to start a relationship with a young man from a MENA country and culture. Choices come with consequences for everyone not just for couples in this specific situation.

[Boiler 46,078]

Perhaps the thread needs to be retitled.

Discrimination against Men who want to migrate to the US by marrying much older women (against their cultural norms) who are also usually divorced with children, also against their cultural norms.

I wonder what percentage of these relationships would occur if the USC made it clear to start with that they were looking to move?

[thelastpetitioner 218]

Yes I understand lots of women get taken. Does marriage come with a guarantee? I work for the court system and I get hundreds of divorces coming thru my desk and sometimes they have been married 1 month. Difference is they the same age and nationality. I have seen divorces of people who do not even speak the same language. Is this fraud on UCIS? I have seen people come to the court house to get married, decrepid old men with 18-20 year old girls. The man can not even walk by himself. Is this fraud on UCIS? Just because I marry a person of my age and nationality does not give me any guarantee as to the lenght of my marriage. I trust my Arab fiance more than I would trust one of my same nationality, religion, etc. The only thing that is guaranteed in life is that you will someday die, other than that nothing is guaranteed.

they never said youre commiting fraud.not YOU. they said its a redflag,and it is,out of say 20 couples with an age gap like yours,there are maybe 5 that are genuinly doing it for the sake of spending rest of their lives together.they cant risk it so they give everyone a hard time.

marriage not being a sure thing is a different story,but you have applied for a k-1 so i assume you do intend to get married.

there is no guarantee in the immigration system,but marriage has a higher value than engagement.

im personally getting married because its the positive,right thing to do for my relationship,and if we dont work out ,im planning to come straight back home,but there are not many women in my own country that would do the same,so im fine with the wait and all.

your wait eventually has to end,just keep cr-1 in perspective