Secret Prisons

[one...two...tree 2,762]

in summary, your whole arguments here in this thread about human rights violations is hereby debunked. until you have factual evidence that the US is sanctioning human rights violations....case closed

Now you're just talking out of your #######...

* At least 45 detainees died in U.S. custody due to suspected or confirmed criminal homicides.[1] At least eight people were tortured to death. At least 98 detainees have died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan;[2]

* At least 69 of the detainees died at locations other than Abu Ghraib;[3]

* At least 51 detainees have died in U.S. custody since Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was informed of the abuses at Abu Ghraib on January 16, 2004;[4]

* 12 deaths have led to punishments of U.S. personnel;[5]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

* As of November 2005, over 83,000 people have been held in U.S. custody, and about 30,000 of those were entered “into the system,” and assigned internment serial numbers in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and Afghanistan;[7]

* There have been nearly 600 criminal investigations into allegations of detainee abuse; each investigation tends to include more than one U.S. soldier, more than one instance of abuse, and more than one victim. Allegations against 250 Soldiers have been addressed in courts-martial, non-judicial punishments, and other adverse administrative punishments. The highest ranking military member judicially punished in connection with the death of a detainee is Marine Major Clarke Paulus, who was found guilty of maltreatment and dereliction of duty and dismissed from the service.[8]

* Reportedly 100-150 individuals have been rendered from U.S. custody to a foreign country known to torture prisoners, including to Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan;[9]

* There are 6 main acknowledged U.S. detention facilities worldwide--3 in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay;[10]

* There are approximately 25 transient facilities - field prisons designed to house detainees only for a short period until they can be released or transferred to a more permanent facility-in Afghanistan and Iraq;[11]

* There are believed to be at least 11 ‘secret’ detention locations used since September 2001. They are/were CIA facilities in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Poland, Romania, and Jordan, detention facilities in Alizai, Kohat and Peshawar in Pakistan, a facility on the U.S. Naval Base on the island of Diego-Garcia, and detentions of prisoners on U.S. ships, particularly the USS Peleliu and USS Bataan.[12]

* 36 prisoners are believed to be held in unknown locations;[14]

* At least 376 foreign fighters detained in Iraq to whom the Administration has asserted the Geneva Conventions do not apply;[15]

* There were up to 100 ghost detainees in Iraq;[16]

* The U.S. transferred at least one dozen prisoners out of Iraq for further interrogation in violation of the Geneva Conventions;[17]

* 5 percent of the 517 detainees held at Guantanamo were captured by the United States and the majority of those currently in custody were turned over by other parties during a time when the United States was offering large sums for captured prisoners.[19]

* At least 267 detainees have been released from Guantanamo Bay since January 2002. 187 were released out right, and 80 were transferred to their home countries for continued detention;[20]

* 38 detainees at Guantanamo determined not to be enemy combatants pursuant to CSRT and at least 23 detainees subsequently released; 558 CSRTS conducted in total[21]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

[Fischkoepfin 1]

The fact that people have been released from guantanamo after being held 2 years without being charged is evidence enough for me.If thats not violating rights i dont know what is.I think if this were mmmbops family member he would feel different.Which brings us back to "its ok because it doesnt effect me".After all the canadian man i saw on the news talking about his ordeal was "muslim" so i guess that makes it ok!

throughout history prisoners of war are held and interogated for intelligence purposes. and that is what these detainees are. it's not the same as, say, a murder case here in the states. i'm all for due process of the alleged killer. but these detainees were not trying to perpetrate a crime against individuals, their goal is to make the USA no longer exist, and that is an act of war, not a criminal act. hence, holding them without charge, interogating is proper. some may have been detained that were later proven to be no threat and unfortunate for them, but this is a war and war is not perfect. thousands of pow's have been held and interogated in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam without ever being charged. They were held until the conflict was over and then released upon negotiation of a surrender or ceasefire. war is not perfect but it is real and we are in a real war now. if this were a member of my family i would not feel different, as long as they were not tortured. btw, it's possible, although we will never know, that holding and interogating these individuals may have saved the lives of some of your family members, of course just conjecture, but it is a possibility.

also, there has not been another attack on the USA homeland since 9/11, and that is precisely because we have declared war on terrorism, you can bet your bottom dollar that had al qaeda been able to, they would have by now. just thought i'd throw that in...

They are not prisoners of war, but enemy combatants. That is the official position of the US-government. That is why they don't have the same rights as prisoners of war.

Also, you claim that torture only happens in a few cases in these secret facilities, and that is only because of some "bad apples." This overlooks that there is actually a memo from the White House redefining the meaning of torture to exclude such things as water boarding, threatening people with dogs, keeping them awake for hours, and the like. According to the Geneva convention all these acts constitute torture under international law. By pretending that these acts don't constitute torture, the US not only violates the human rights of those imprisoned, but also hurts the legitmacy of American POWs of prior wars who portray themselves as victims of torture, like John McCain. Furthermore, the position threatens US-forces currently in combat who might become prisoners of war. You can't expect your enemy to play by the rules if you don't do so yourself.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Fischkoepfin

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The simply question is how do you know that the people held are being held for legitimate reasons, as opposed to simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Again its because you assume that everyone who is there is supposed to be there. If that were the case why are there stories that people have been picked up for the most arbitrary reasons (these stories were picked up by organisations such as Amnesty etc) where people were apparently seized for wearing 'suspicious' clothes, among other things. The point is these claims can't even be verified or dismissed because the government continually refuses to apply due process.

BTW The 'wartime' rhetoric is a luxury this government has overused to the point of irrelevance - they trot it out on a regular basis as a way of sustaining a level of national fear. Its interesting to note that the war is apparently non-ending, ever expanding and increasingly amorphous in nature. Outside of the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan we are not "at war".

How can you be "at war" with ideology. The very idea is ridiculous.

[mmmbop1976 1]

in summary, your whole arguments here in this thread about human rights violations is hereby debunked. until you have factual evidence that the US is sanctioning human rights violations....case closed

Now you're just talking out of your #######...

* At least 45 detainees died in U.S. custody due to suspected or confirmed criminal homicides.[1] At least eight people were tortured to death. At least 98 detainees have died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan;[2]

* At least 69 of the detainees died at locations other than Abu Ghraib;[3]

* At least 51 detainees have died in U.S. custody since Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was informed of the abuses at Abu Ghraib on January 16, 2004;[4]

* 12 deaths have led to punishments of U.S. personnel;[5]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

* As of November 2005, over 83,000 people have been held in U.S. custody, and about 30,000 of those were entered “into the system,” and assigned internment serial numbers in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and Afghanistan;[7]

* There have been nearly 600 criminal investigations into allegations of detainee abuse; each investigation tends to include more than one U.S. soldier, more than one instance of abuse, and more than one victim. Allegations against 250 Soldiers have been addressed in courts-martial, non-judicial punishments, and other adverse administrative punishments. The highest ranking military member judicially punished in connection with the death of a detainee is Marine Major Clarke Paulus, who was found guilty of maltreatment and dereliction of duty and dismissed from the service.[8]

* Reportedly 100-150 individuals have been rendered from U.S. custody to a foreign country known to torture prisoners, including to Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan;[9]

* There are 6 main acknowledged U.S. detention facilities worldwide--3 in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay;[10]

* There are approximately 25 transient facilities - field prisons designed to house detainees only for a short period until they can be released or transferred to a more permanent facility-in Afghanistan and Iraq;[11]

* There are believed to be at least 11 ‘secret’ detention locations used since September 2001. They are/were CIA facilities in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Poland, Romania, and Jordan, detention facilities in Alizai, Kohat and Peshawar in Pakistan, a facility on the U.S. Naval Base on the island of Diego-Garcia, and detentions of prisoners on U.S. ships, particularly the USS Peleliu and USS Bataan.[12]

* 36 prisoners are believed to be held in unknown locations;[14]

* At least 376 foreign fighters detained in Iraq to whom the Administration has asserted the Geneva Conventions do not apply;[15]

* There were up to 100 ghost detainees in Iraq;[16]

* The U.S. transferred at least one dozen prisoners out of Iraq for further interrogation in violation of the Geneva Conventions;[17]

* 5 percent of the 517 detainees held at Guantanamo were captured by the United States and the majority of those currently in custody were turned over by other parties during a time when the United States was offering large sums for captured prisoners.[19]

* At least 267 detainees have been released from Guantanamo Bay since January 2002. 187 were released out right, and 80 were transferred to their home countries for continued detention;[20]

* 38 detainees at Guantanamo determined not to be enemy combatants pursuant to CSRT and at least 23 detainees subsequently released; 558 CSRTS conducted in total[21]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

steve, i wonder if you ever really think things through or do you act strictly from emotion and feeling...the fact that these courts martials and prosecution are done is the proof that we don't sanction it

How can you be "at war" with ideology. The very idea is ridiculous.

i laughed when i read this.....you can certainly be at war with the people that are trying to force their idealogy on other nations. obl is certainly at war with us

[type2negative 0]

Verbal masturbation in all its beauty!

[Marc and Olga 0]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

[mmmbop1976 1]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

what's your point? perhaps there was not sufficient evidence to support the allegations

[one...two...tree 2,762]

in summary, your whole arguments here in this thread about human rights violations is hereby debunked. until you have factual evidence that the US is sanctioning human rights violations....case closed

Now you're just talking out of your #######...

* At least 45 detainees died in U.S. custody due to suspected or confirmed criminal homicides.[1] At least eight people were tortured to death. At least 98 detainees have died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan;[2]

* At least 69 of the detainees died at locations other than Abu Ghraib;[3]

* At least 51 detainees have died in U.S. custody since Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was informed of the abuses at Abu Ghraib on January 16, 2004;[4]

* 12 deaths have led to punishments of U.S. personnel;[5]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

* As of November 2005, over 83,000 people have been held in U.S. custody, and about 30,000 of those were entered “into the system,” and assigned internment serial numbers in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and Afghanistan;[7]

* There have been nearly 600 criminal investigations into allegations of detainee abuse; each investigation tends to include more than one U.S. soldier, more than one instance of abuse, and more than one victim. Allegations against 250 Soldiers have been addressed in courts-martial, non-judicial punishments, and other adverse administrative punishments. The highest ranking military member judicially punished in connection with the death of a detainee is Marine Major Clarke Paulus, who was found guilty of maltreatment and dereliction of duty and dismissed from the service.[8]

* Reportedly 100-150 individuals have been rendered from U.S. custody to a foreign country known to torture prisoners, including to Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan;[9]

* There are 6 main acknowledged U.S. detention facilities worldwide--3 in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay;[10]

* There are approximately 25 transient facilities - field prisons designed to house detainees only for a short period until they can be released or transferred to a more permanent facility-in Afghanistan and Iraq;[11]

* There are believed to be at least 11 ‘secret’ detention locations used since September 2001. They are/were CIA facilities in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Poland, Romania, and Jordan, detention facilities in Alizai, Kohat and Peshawar in Pakistan, a facility on the U.S. Naval Base on the island of Diego-Garcia, and detentions of prisoners on U.S. ships, particularly the USS Peleliu and USS Bataan.[12]

* 36 prisoners are believed to be held in unknown locations;[14]

* At least 376 foreign fighters detained in Iraq to whom the Administration has asserted the Geneva Conventions do not apply;[15]

* There were up to 100 ghost detainees in Iraq;[16]

* The U.S. transferred at least one dozen prisoners out of Iraq for further interrogation in violation of the Geneva Conventions;[17]

* 5 percent of the 517 detainees held at Guantanamo were captured by the United States and the majority of those currently in custody were turned over by other parties during a time when the United States was offering large sums for captured prisoners.[19]

* At least 267 detainees have been released from Guantanamo Bay since January 2002. 187 were released out right, and 80 were transferred to their home countries for continued detention;[20]

* 38 detainees at Guantanamo determined not to be enemy combatants pursuant to CSRT and at least 23 detainees subsequently released; 558 CSRTS conducted in total[21]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

steve, i wonder if you ever really think things through or do you act strictly from emotion and feeling...the fact that these courts martials and prosecution are done is the proof that we don't sanction it

Can't see the forest in spite of the trees, yes? That many incidences occuring indicates that somebody in a position of authority is condoning torture. To suggest these are just rogue personnel acting out suggests we either have a major insubordinate problem in our military or those in authority have no real oversight. Time to stop passing the buck and assign responsability on those who are in positions to make sure it doesn't happen...period.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Sheriff Uling 3]

shhh they're watching

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Verbal masturbation in all its beauty!

Congratulations on finally getting a sentence grammatically and punctuationally correct.

Masturbation you say - were typing with both hands this time?

Edited September 8, 2006 by erekose

[Ban Hammer 13,644]

Verbal masturbation in all its beauty!

Congratulations on finally getting a sentence grammatically and punctuationally correct.

Masturbation you say - were typing with both hands this time?

[*Robert* 2]

Verbal masturbation in all its beauty!

And in your case... Oral diarrhea.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

in summary, your whole arguments here in this thread about human rights violations is hereby debunked. until you have factual evidence that the US is sanctioning human rights violations....case closed

Now you're just talking out of your #######...

* At least 45 detainees died in U.S. custody due to suspected or confirmed criminal homicides.[1] At least eight people were tortured to death. At least 98 detainees have died while in U.S. custody in Iraq or Afghanistan;[2]

* At least 69 of the detainees died at locations other than Abu Ghraib;[3]

* At least 51 detainees have died in U.S. custody since Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was informed of the abuses at Abu Ghraib on January 16, 2004;[4]

* 12 deaths have led to punishments of U.S. personnel;[5]

* 0 CIA personnel have been charged with wrongdoing in connection with alleged involvement in at least 5 deaths;[6]

* As of November 2005, over 83,000 people have been held in U.S. custody, and about 30,000 of those were entered “into the system,” and assigned internment serial numbers in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, and Afghanistan;[7]

* There have been nearly 600 criminal investigations into allegations of detainee abuse; each investigation tends to include more than one U.S. soldier, more than one instance of abuse, and more than one victim. Allegations against 250 Soldiers have been addressed in courts-martial, non-judicial punishments, and other adverse administrative punishments. The highest ranking military member judicially punished in connection with the death of a detainee is Marine Major Clarke Paulus, who was found guilty of maltreatment and dereliction of duty and dismissed from the service.[8]

* Reportedly 100-150 individuals have been rendered from U.S. custody to a foreign country known to torture prisoners, including to Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan;[9]

* There are 6 main acknowledged U.S. detention facilities worldwide--3 in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay;[10]

* There are approximately 25 transient facilities - field prisons designed to house detainees only for a short period until they can be released or transferred to a more permanent facility-in Afghanistan and Iraq;[11]

* There are believed to be at least 11 ‘secret’ detention locations used since September 2001. They are/were CIA facilities in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Poland, Romania, and Jordan, detention facilities in Alizai, Kohat and Peshawar in Pakistan, a facility on the U.S. Naval Base on the island of Diego-Garcia, and detentions of prisoners on U.S. ships, particularly the USS Peleliu and USS Bataan.[12]

* 36 prisoners are believed to be held in unknown locations;[14]

* At least 376 foreign fighters detained in Iraq to whom the Administration has asserted the Geneva Conventions do not apply;[15]

* There were up to 100 ghost detainees in Iraq;[16]

* The U.S. transferred at least one dozen prisoners out of Iraq for further interrogation in violation of the Geneva Conventions;[17]

* 5 percent of the 517 detainees held at Guantanamo were captured by the United States and the majority of those currently in custody were turned over by other parties during a time when the United States was offering large sums for captured prisoners.[19]

* At least 267 detainees have been released from Guantanamo Bay since January 2002. 187 were released out right, and 80 were transferred to their home countries for continued detention;[20]

* 38 detainees at Guantanamo determined not to be enemy combatants pursuant to CSRT and at least 23 detainees subsequently released; 558 CSRTS conducted in total[21]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn...c/factsheet.htm

steve, i wonder if you ever really think things through or do you act strictly from emotion and feeling...the fact that these courts martials and prosecution are done is the proof that we don't sanction it

Can't see the forest in spite of the trees, yes? That many incidences occuring indicates that somebody in a position of authority is condoning torture. To suggest these are just rogue personnel acting out suggests we either have a major insubordinate problem in our military or those in authority have no real oversight. Time to stop passing the buck and assign responsability on those who are in positions to make sure it doesn't happen...period.

Also, and sorry to be repetitive, to pretend that only a "few bad apples" are torturing people overlooks the fact that they have been given the license to do so from the White House. The president can only say there is not torture because his definition of torture departs from international (and up to 2002 American law).

The prosecutions yoou discuss are of people at the lower end of the command chain, anyone not on the ground in the areas of combat has not been investigated let alone prosecuted.

[peejay 327]

This overlooks that there is actually a memo from the White House redefining the meaning of torture to exclude such things as water boarding, threatening people with dogs, keeping them awake for hours, and the like. According to the Geneva convention all these acts constitute torture under international law.

You can't expect your enemy to play by the rules if you don't do so yourself.

I don't expect a whole lot from people that crash civilian airplanes into civilian buildings in NYC, strap bombs on themselves to kill civilians worldwide, decapitate innocent civilian victims on camera with a knife, etc., etc.

So don't be surprised that a lot of folks could give a rat's a$$ if captive members of these terrorist organizations are not accorded provisions in the Geneva Convention that they do not practice themselves nor are signatories to.

We are infinitely more "humane" than these individuals will ever be. And we are not bound by a treaty with them to do so.

We are a nation that prosecuted a brutal war against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan and rebuilt them into a industrial democracies after crushing them militarily.

I think our record is infinitely more pristine than our enemy.

That being said...a vast majority of Americans do not advocate commiting war crimes against our enemies. Sleep deprivation...give me a f*cking break! This is a far cry from outright murder...which is not condoned or tolerated by our nation.

Let's put this in perspective without the melodrama.

[desert_fox 32]

I vote for more secret prisions......dont bother me one bit.

FYI...the Bill of Rights only applies to actions brought against ppl here in the US. It doesnt apply in some foreign country. This is the very reason that these people are not brought here, but are kept in foreign lands such as Cuba.

You think we gave jury trials to the Nazis after WWII???