Housebreaker

[tsunamihart 0]

Sorry, If this has already been posted just punch me in the arm , anyway Cristina and I just got back from Barcelona on vacation with her family and this was waiting in my email inbox, thought provoking if not simplistic...

Housebreaker

A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!

It explains things better than all you hear on TV.

"Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting

the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders making it

harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely. Let me

see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your

house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I made all the beds and washed the

dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all the things you

don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your

house)."

According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add me to

your family's insurance plan and provide other benefits to me and to my family

(my husband will do your yard work because he too is hardworking and honest,

except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will

picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there. It's only

fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying

to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest. Um, except for well, you know.

And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a

fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it

without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being anti-housebreaker.

Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America.... if you agree,

pass it on (in English ).

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

it's been posted before but it was a while ago. still a very worthwhile story in that it puts it all in perspective.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

[Alex+R 0]

I'd say, if we're going to reduce this situation to ridiculously and inappropriately simple analogies, it's more like this: You have been taking a lot of your neighbor's vegetables. You've eaten them all, and made it difficult for him to sell his crops. Now he's poor.

When he loses his house, he moves into your garage, although you did not invite him. However, he's self-sufficient, pays for all the upkeep of the garage, and takes care of his own in there.

[heishe 2]

And these "intruders" helped build the house.

[Alex+R 0]

And these "intruders" helped build the house.

Indeed. Forgot about that.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I'd say, if we're going to reduce this situation to ridiculously and inappropriately simple analogies, it's more like this: You have been taking a lot of your neighbor's vegetables. You've eaten them all, and made it difficult for him to sell his crops. Now he's poor.

When he loses his house, he moves into your garage, although you did not invite him. However, he's self-sufficient, pays for all the upkeep of the garage, and takes care of his own in there.

ah you just won't admit it that it does cost. here's something to provide you with a bit of insight.

hardly what could be called self sufficient, paying for the upkeep of the garage, and taking care of his own...

State's "cheap labor" costs average household $1,183 a year

Dateline: December, 2004

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR. "Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate, already know the impact that mass illegal immigration is having on their communities, but even they may be shocked when they learn just how much of a drain illegal immigration has become."

The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Californians focuses on three specific program areas because those were the costs examined by researchers from the Urban Institute in 1994. Looking at the costs of education, health care and incarceration for illegal aliens in 1994, the Urban Institute estimated that California was subsidizing illegal immigrants to the tune of about $1.1 billion. The enormous rise in the costs of illegal immigrants over the intervening ten years is due to the rapid growth in illegal residents. It is reasonable to expect those costs to continue to soar if action is not taken to turn the tide.

"Nineteen ninety-four was the same year that California voters rebelled and overwhelmingly passed Proposition 187, which sought to limit liability for mass illegal immigration. Since then, state and local governments have blatantly ignored the wishes of the voters and continued to shell out publicly financed benefits on illegal aliens," said Stein. "Predictably, the costs of illegal immigration have grown geometrically, while the state has spiraled into a fiscal crisis that has brought it near bankruptcy.

"Nothing could more starkly illustrate the very high costs of ‘cheap labor' than California's current situation," continued Stein. "A small number of powerful interests in the state reap the benefits, while the average native-born family in California gets handed a nearly $1,200 a year bill."

The Federation for American Immigration Reform is a nonprofit, public-interest, membership organization advocating immigration policy reforms that would tighten border security and prevent illegal immigration, while reducing legal immigration levels from about 1.1 million persons per year to 300,000 per year.

link1

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U.S. to pay medical bills for illegal immigrants

Posted on 05/10/2005 8:02:59 AM PDT by coffeebreak

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Health care providers can charge the government for emergency care provided to illegal aliens beginning Tuesday.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued final guidance Monday that sets up a system for reimbursement. Lawmakers set aside $1 billion over four years for the program, created by Medicare legislation passed in 2003.

For hospitals in border states, the additional money can mean the difference between running a profitable business or an unprofitable one, said Don May, vice president of policy for the American Hospital Association.

"I don't know if it will completely change their financial picture, but for those hospitals on the border, this is going to make a difference in ensuring they are there to treat the patients, not just the undocumented ones, but all the patients living in those communities," May said.

Two-thirds of the money will be distributed to health care providers based on a state's percentage of undocumented aliens. The remaining third will go to providers in the six states with the largest number of arrests of undocumented aliens.

The states receiving the highest amounts in the current fiscal year are California, $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; and New York, $12.25 million.

Payments to providers will be made on a quarterly basis and will be adjusted proportionately if the bills exceed the state's allocation.

One group that advocates stricter immigration policies said the government's reimbursement of hospitals was the right thing to do.

"It seems to me that if the federal government has abdicated its responsibility for immigration enforcement, then it's responsible for making those jurisdictions whole," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a think tank based in Washington.

link2

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oh yeah, enjoy paying those hospital bills with your taxes

COMING TO AMERICA

Court: State must cover care for illegals

Justices reject bid by agency to limit in-hospital Medicaid

Posted: August 26, 2003

1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jon Dougherty

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

The Arizona Supreme Court has rejected a plea by the state's Medicaid provider to limit medical coverage for illegal immigrants to emergency room and acute care.

The Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, or AHCCCS, manager of the state's Medicaid program, is obligated to provide care to illegals beyond emergency room and other acute care wards, justices ruled unanimously Thursday.

According to Capitol Media Services and the Arizona Daily Star, AHCCCS – which currently pays $75 million to $80 million a year in emergency care for illegals – had refused to reimburse hospitals for services it said were not covered. About one-third of that amount is covered by state taxpayers; the federal government covers the rest.

AHCCCS had argued it was only obligated to pay for emergency treatment – coverage that stopped once patients were moved to non-acute care wards. But Justice Michael Ryan, writing for the high court, called that definition far too narrow.

Frank Lopez, a spokesman for the Medicaid agency, said officials would have to review the ruling, but he expressed confidence AHCCCS would end up paying for the care of illegals who previously were not considered the state's obligation.

A series of lawsuits followed after AHCCCS refused to pay for the extra care in several cases.

In consolidating the complaints, justices said the state Medicaid agency could not base its decision whether or not to pay the claims on where the care was being given at hospitals.

"Whether a patient suffers from an emergency medical condition (that the state must cover) does not depend upon the type of bed or facility the patient may be in at any given time," Justice Ryan wrote.

He said AHCCCS must instead use a standard of care based on whether a patient's symptoms have, or could, put them in serious jeopardy, seriously impair function or result in a severe dysfunction of any organ or body part.

Despite the justices' ruling, the high court did not say whether AHCCCS would have to cover any of the bills that resulted in the lawsuits. Rather, the high court sent the case back to trial judges, asking them to review each patient's record using the correct standard.

Critics of providing unlimited medical care to illegals argue many of them use emergency departments as clinics, a practice that not only can delay care for others but, since E.R. care is more expensive, can also raise the overall costs of operating a hospital. This is especially true in areas suffering from high immigration.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the cost of providing medical care to illegals in and around Los Angeles is rising so fast that many hospitals have cut services or closed emergency departments.

According to Project USA, an immigration reform group, the problem is "epidemic" throughout California. The group adds the problem is compounded because fewer taxes are being paid to support care for illegals.

"Since employers usually pay illegal aliens 'off the books,' neither the employer nor the workers pay payroll taxes," the group says.

Regarding health care, former immigration Lawyer Matt Hayes said "it is amazing that America is willing to provide free medical treatment to people who are not citizens – and even illegal aliens – while the home countries of most all of those people will not do so."

"For the fiscally conservative, free medical treatment for illegal aliens in an emergency is better than free medical treatment for illegal aliens for all maladies, all the time," Hayes said in a column for Fox News.

"But because America is now deluged with illegal immigrants like it has never been – 8 million by the most recent government estimate – the cost to taxpayers, even for emergency medical treatment, has skyrocketed," he said.

The Border Counties Coalition, formed by the elected officials of the 24 U.S. counties that border Mexico, Hayes said, reported medical expenses for illegal immigrations in 2000 was $832 million just for those counties.

Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., says the cost to the entire nation is in the billions.

"According to one estimate, the cost of providing federally-mandated health care to illegal immigrants is between $1.5 billion and $2 billion annually," he said in a Jan. 11, 2002 statement.

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[Alex+R 0]

Charles:

Link 1: So the human services we're paying for are because the workers are making so little money. Why not, oh, I don't know, pay them a living wage?

And don't miss my point that we need to take some responsibility for the fact that they're here. There are many reasons we have illegal immigrants, but I'm sure believing 100% in the free market takes a lot of guilt off your conscience when people around the world are starving.

I just can't buy into that.

Link 2: Same thing. Let's get them on the level. Let's get some sort of program to help people work here legitimately.

Let's just stop ignoring the problem or blaming all of it on them.

Aren't those illegal immigrants such horrible people? They don't want their children to starve to death or they want them to have an education?

These, to me, are more "noble" reasons to immigrate than say, your H1B job, you wanting to be with your K1 fiance, etc. Those reasons are valid, but give the illegal guy a break.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Charles:

Link 1: So the human services we're paying for are because the workers are making so little money. Why not, oh, I don't know, pay them a living wage?

And don't miss my point that we need to take some responsibility for the fact that they're here. There are many reasons we have illegal immigrants, but I'm sure believing 100% in the free market takes a lot of guilt off your conscience when people around the world are starving.

I just can't buy into that.

Link 2: Same thing. Let's get them on the level. Let's get some sort of program to help people work here legitimately.

Let's just stop ignoring the problem or blaming all of it on them.

Aren't those illegal immigrants such horrible people? They don't want their children to starve to death or they want them to have an education?

These, to me, are more "noble" reasons to immigrate than say, your H1B job, you wanting to be with your K1 fiance, etc. Those reasons are valid, but give the illegal guy a break.

wonderful answers

-pay the illegals a living wage so more decide to come here. great idea!

-WE don't need to take any responsibility for illegals. that's like it's your fault someone broke into your home! i'm not into giving handouts to lawbreakers. and while you're at it, pass the collection plate for murderers and bank robbers too because surely they need help too.

- forget getting them on the level, get them across the border instead. only program that would work here is an immediate ride south, east, or west to their home country.

- yes, do stop ignoring the problem. they are illegal. "law breakers" maybe that phrase does not hold much meaning up north.

- noble reasons are obviously enough to infiltrate our country and weaken our economy. great!

[Alex+R 0]

wonderful answers

-pay the illegals a living wage so more decide to come here. great idea!

-WE don't need to take any responsibility for illegals. that's like it's your fault someone broke into your home! i'm not into giving handouts to lawbreakers. and while you're at it, pass the collection plate for murderers and bank robbers too because surely they need help too.

- forget getting them on the level, get them across the border instead. only program that would work here is an immediate ride south, east, or west to their home country.

- yes, do stop ignoring the problem. they are illegal. "law breakers" maybe that phrase does not hold much meaning up north.

- noble reasons are obviously enough to infiltrate our country and weaken our economy. great!

Oh, Charles. The way we're handling the problem is supposedly "weakening our economy" in the ways you referred to. But in other ways they keep our economy running.

I don't know how it can be so black and white for you: murderers and people working illegally in one category, law-abiding citizens in another.

Laws, as you may be aware, are man-made. That means they are far from perfect. The neat thing about having man-made laws is that we can *change* them.

If we want to, we can use this situation to OUR advantage, as well as to the advantage of anyone who wants a better life here. Clearly, those who immigrate illegally are some of the smartest, toughest, and hardest working people from their countries--it is not easy to make it through a desert or work 3 jobs a day or be apart from your family for years at a time. Frankly, these are the kind of people I want in my country.

But isntead of finding ways to make the situation something beneficial for all parties, many people just want them OUT. I suspect this is driven by fear of difference, ignorance, and a bit of racism (considering most illegal immigrants we think of are Central Americans/Mexicans/some South Americans).

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Oh, Charles. The way we're handling the problem is supposedly "weakening our economy" in the ways you referred to. But in other ways they keep our economy running.

I don't know how it can be so black and white for you: murderers and people working illegally in one category, law-abiding citizens in another.

Laws, as you may be aware, are man-made. That means they are far from perfect. The neat thing about having man-made laws is that we can *change* them.

If we want to, we can use this situation to OUR advantage, as well as to the advantage of anyone who wants a better life here. Clearly, those who immigrate illegally are some of the smartest, toughest, and hardest working people from their countries--it is not easy to make it through a desert or work 3 jobs a day or be apart from your family for years at a time. Frankly, these are the kind of people I want in my country.

But isntead of finding ways to make the situation something beneficial for all parties, many people just want them OUT. I suspect this is driven by fear of difference, ignorance, and a bit of racism (considering most illegal immigrants we think of are Central Americans/Mexicans/some South Americans).

oh of course it keeps our economy running. maybe that's why wages are depressed, we have youths unemployed, all because there are others competing for jobs that the average teenager could take but can't due to the position being filled by someone taking half the pay.

yes, it is black and white. either we are a nation of laws or we have anarchy. if i speed and get caught, i expect to pay a fine or worse. i don't expect to get a slap on the wrist and have someone show up and make excuses for my behavior.

yes, laws can be changed. however, we don't need to change them in order to be accomodating to illegals and hope that these changes will stop the flow of illegals. you can either take a hard line or a soft line with that - but i'm certain that hardly any punishment whatsoever won't serve as a deterrent.

i don't know what illegals you have been running into, but the ones i knew certainly didn't qualify as the smartest/toughest/hardest working of the bunch. you might think illegal immigration is some darwin process, but i certainly don't see attorneys, bankers, doctors, rocket scientists, or computer code writers crossing the border illegally. a country always has the right to take only the cream of the crop, to dictate who is allowed in the country permanently and who is not, and to reject those it feels will be a burden on it. welcome to reality.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

*sigh*

[Sister Fracas 5]

*sigh*

indeed... time to break out the illegal immigration threads again... just when the muslim ones are starting to cool.

VJ sheesh

[MrsWhizz 0]

My dad runs a construction company that was booming 10 years ago. These days, he has a hard time having bids accepted because of illegal persons accepting lower wages and because companies employ illegals for lower wages. I don't think we can dismiss ourselves from complete responsibility on this topic. With that being said, I find it hard to stomach that anyone on this board can justify an illegal worker after what we have had to do simply to be with someone we love. Please don't get me wrong, I am a bleeding heart and I could never be cruel to anyone illegal or not. However, every morning, I drive past a terrible apartment complex (we're talking dirty, dirty small living) and I see tons of children waiting for the bus. It saddens me on so many levels. It is hard to believe these parents are here legally. It is sad to see so many people crammed into such tiny spaces. It breaks my heart to think of the stigmatism these children must face and the embarrassment they must face coming home to that environment. And then I think...who would do that to their children?!?! Is that really creating a better life for them? Or is it creating bitter adults who will ultimately bite the hand that has fed them? I flash forward 20 years from now, and that's the thought that saddens me most of all. What happens when the children (born here for US citizenship) have taken your job, your job or your job because mom & pop came here illegally? I'm not trying to be harsh, I just can't understand justifying people doing things outside the law!

[Bootylicious!! 2]

The whole idea that our teenagers are unemployed because of illegal immigrants is laughable to me. I work at a college in a small city. There are more teenagers here than you could imagine yet driving down center street almost every single business has a help wanted sign out. We are over run with illegal immigrants here. So, obviously, they aren't taking the jobs but the lazy teenagers aren't either. I went to one of these businesses on Friday night to eat and as I waited on my food they asked me if I wanted a job. I don't need another job since I have a good first job. The lady stood there and told me they can't get anyone to work. I'm sure if they asked me they are asking some of the college kids that come to the window, yet they still have a help wanted sign out. It's sad to say, most of our teenagers think they are above working at jobs like this. If illegal immigrants are the cause of our teenagers thinking they are too good for said jobs then okay but I likely think it's their parents who instilled this value into them.