English Language Proficiency

[*Robert* 2]

I don't want to make this an ethnic issue, but of the kids who had difficulty with English, how many of them were U.S. born and caucasion?

I taught in a Boston public high school. Almost all U.S. born, caucasian kids. Atrocious reading and writing skills.

And Bostoin Community College afterwards?!>

My bad. I read that you finished bostoin Public school. Smth like that... Ingle comprehenda - No good, bad.

#######?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Yodrak

(Disclosure: One of my criteria when selecting a college was lack of requirements to take English classes, learned what a mistake that was after getting into the working world.)

Lack of English requirements was why I joined the Navy's nuclear operator program. The lack of English was made up by 10 times the math, physics and science.

[Yodrak 7]

rch,

Damn, the Navy doesn't care if their nuclear operators can read the manuals?

Yodrak

Yodrak

(Disclosure: One of my criteria when selecting a college was lack of requirements to take English classes, learned what a mistake that was after getting into the working world.)

Lack of English requirements was why I joined the Navy's nuclear operator program. The lack of English was made up by 10 times the math, physics and science.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Last year in Rhet&Comp, we often had to get in groups of four or so to evaluate our classmates' papers. I saw, just from the small groups in that one class, how many American 18/19 year olds, and even older, have trouble writing a simple essay. It really *was* sad. M.

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

yodrak,

the military manuals are usually written to a very low level so everyone can understand them. my mom used to write them in one job she had and she commented on that to me.

rch,

Damn, the Navy doesn't care if their nuclear operators can read the manuals?

Yodrak

Yodrak

(Disclosure: One of my criteria when selecting a college was lack of requirements to take English classes, learned what a mistake that was after getting into the working world.)

Lack of English requirements was why I joined the Navy's nuclear operator program. The lack of English was made up by 10 times the math, physics and science.

Edited September 6, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[almaty 19]

Not a good trend.

agreed

[Yodrak 7]

Tracy, jenn, and Alex,

And where else to we observe an inability to read, write, and think in a logical way?

:-(

Yodrak

I used to teach composition to college freshman. I can tell you that the quality of the work I saw on basic essays was appalling. Half of them could not string a sentence together.

I taught in a Boston public high school. .... Atrocious reading and writing skills.

I used to teach writing when I was in college ..... There are two issues in writing that are addressed in freshman comp classes. ..... but that stuff is all secondary to the TRULY appalling problem in student writing: the complete lack of ability to structure an argument in a logical way.

Students aren't being taught how to think in an organized way, let alone express those thoughts.

....

Edited September 6, 2006 by Yodrak

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Saw this article in the NY Times a few days ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/02/educatio...l?th&emc=th

At first I was surprised, but upon reflection it explains a lot................

A few relevant quotes:

"Though higher education is now a near-universal aspiration, researchers suggest that close to half the students who enter college need remedial courses."

"California State set an ambitious goal to cut the proportion of unprepared freshmen to 10 percent by 2007, largely by testing them as high school juniors and having them make up for deficiencies in the 12th grade. Cal State appears nowhere close to its goal. In reading alone, nearly half the high school juniors appear unprepared for college-level work."

"Nearly half the 14.7 million undergraduates at two- and four-year institutions never receive degrees. The deficiencies turn up not just in math, science and engineering, areas in which a growing chorus warns of difficulties in the face of global competition, but also in the basics of reading and writing."

"The Pew Charitable Trusts recently found that three-quarters of community college graduates were not literate enough to handle everyday tasks like comparing viewpoints in newspaper editorials or calculating the cost of food items per ounce."

"At Cal State, the system admits only students with at least a B average in high school. Nevertheless, 37 percent of the incoming class last year needed remedial math, and 45 percent needed remedial English."

Yodrak

(Disclosure: One of my criteria when selecting a college was lack of requirements to take English classes, learned what a mistake that was after getting into the working world.)

WTG! GMTA, huh? EMFBI, but when I read this, I had to LTM. Cuz IMHO it's due to the fact that college isn't an ARE and the old farts don't think IMing is cool!. KWIM? AFAIK and DQMOT cuz I'm taking a SWAG, if TPTB IMed more the scores would be higher. OK, I TILII. IRL, AFK IMO college profs think WYSITWIRL, BWTHDIK...? nyways.... IPN and ITIGBS <WEG> B4N

Translation for college administration:

Way to Go! Great minds think alike, huh? Excuse me for butting in, but when I read this I had to laugh out loud. Because in my humble opinion it's due to the fact that college isn't an Acronym Rich Environment and the old farts don' think Im-ing is cool! Know what I mean? As far as I know, and don't quote me on this, because I am taking a stupid wild ### guess, but if the powers that be instant messaged more, the scores would be better. Okay, I tell it like it is. In real life, away from the keyboard, in my opinion the college profs think what you see is totally worthless in real life, but what the heck do I know?

Anyway, I'm posting naked and I think I am going to be sick. <Wicked evil grin>

Bye for now.......

[rclouse 0]

[Reba 2]

"The Pew Charitable Trusts recently found that three-quarters of community college graduates were not literate enough to handle everyday tasks like comparing viewpoints in newspaper editorials or calculating the cost of food items per ounce."

pfffffffffft, at our local newspaper, nobody would notice! Not even the freakin' editors can find the spelling and grammar errors! Drives me absolutely NUTS! They can't tell the difference between THEN and THAN or YOUR and YOU'RE and I once saw a run-on setence a paragraph in length that made absolutely no sense at all.

You'd think the people working at the newspapers as writers and editors should know the basics of grammar and spelling, but apparently not. If they don't, why should the readers?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

rch,

Damn, the Navy doesn't care if their nuclear operators can read the manuals?

Yodrak

Yodrak

(Disclosure: One of my criteria when selecting a college was lack of requirements to take English classes, learned what a mistake that was after getting into the working world.)

Lack of English requirements was why I joined the Navy's nuclear operator program. The lack of English was made up by 10 times the math, physics and science.

They do. You just don't have to write a 10 page paper about it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I have always said that until something is done to elavate a teachers pay to point where they can raise a family and not struggle our educational system will continue to harbour bitter people with good intentions. Yes I know there are good teachers who do the things they do making very little money. I am not talking about making them all rich but I am talking about a reasonable wage to help them live their lives.

My solution? Have every professional athlete adopt a school to suppliment the schoold budget for staff pay and educational materials.

Also it is not just the educational system it is parents also. My parents were very involved in my education, from what I see of the parents today the extent of their interest is, "Did you finish your homework?". With no follow up or real interest. Granted there are parents out there that care and take an interest but from what I have seen there are many that dont.

Paul

We need a cultural change here in this country that emphasizes reading, reading and more reading. It really starts in the home and parents set the example for their children starting at infancy by reading to them every day. We need to somehow make it socially taboo for parents to let their children spend more time watching television than reading a book.

Video didn't just kill the radio star...it killed our imaginations.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[sparkofcreation 0]

I used to teach composition to college freshman. I can tell you that the quality of the work I saw on basic essays was appalling. Half of them could not string a sentence together. The one or two 'stars' I had in each class were all that kept me from pulling my hair out.

Funny, Y -- I partially chose my college major (English!) based on how few MATH credits were required.

I used to teach advanced translation to upperclassmen and grad students.

You'd be surprised how many get As in freshman composition and the Spanish equivalent nowadays and *still* can't string a sentence together. *sigh*

And I work in the judicial system and the number of lawyers, legal research writers, and judges who don't know the difference between ITS and IT'S (and swap them for each other in motions and opinions) is enough to make me tear my hair out.

Edited September 7, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I used to teach composition to college freshman. I can tell you that the quality of the work I saw on basic essays was appalling. Half of them could not string a sentence together. The one or two 'stars' I had in each class were all that kept me from pulling my hair out.

Funny, Y -- I partially chose my college major (English!) based on how few MATH credits were required.

I used to teach advanced translation to upperclassmen and grad students.

You'd be surprised how many get As in freshman composition and the Spanish equivalent nowadays and *still* can't string a sentence together. *sigh*

And I work in the judicial system and the number of lawyers, legal research writers, and judges who don't know the difference between ITS and IT'S (and swap them for each other in motions and opinions) is enough to make me tear my hair out.

With regard to its and it's ... I've noticed over the years my grammar and spelling has diminished. I don't know if it's because I'm not doing enough book reading, but words that I've spelled without even thinking about all these years, I now struggle to remember how they are spelled. Same with rules of grammar. I'm wondering if this is a natural occurance with age or I'm just going senile?

Edited September 7, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[pedroh 21]

parents, parents.. if the parents think the teacher will make the kid write or read better, wrong.. if there's not an environment at home where those skills are nurtured, then it's not gonna happen..

i see it in my wife's kids papers from high school, they write like 8 year olds.. ps.. they write worst than any immigrant i know lolz.. #######