Germans happily pay more for clean energy. Why don’t Americans?

[HeatDeath 430]

It might have changed recently, but I noticed when I was a kid over there that the Germans were probably the nicest peeps on earth, yet they did have an "ant colony - bee hive" mentality. It's not a bad thing, it was just what it was. It seems to work.

Thank you. My point exactly!

[_Simpson_ 250]

Good for you. What furnace do you have at home, if you have one?

"Stupid consumers"... sounds a lot like the consumers have real choices and the cheaper choice is a stupid one. Good to know!

Those that own furnaces would do well in posting here what they paid and what energy efficiency rating they went from and to. Then you can assign them an intelligence coefficient.

The philosophy would be good though... if enough not-so stupid customers buy better gear, do you think the market would adjust itself to lower prices on high quality, high efficiency units? Or would they merely follow the law of supply and demand? And more importantly, would we be here to overgeneralize both customers and producers?

I know exactly what I got into when I bought my home in 2006 and over paid. I expect to replace things and as a consumer Im very happy I have plenty of choices.

I was talking about a consumer that directly buys the product like Big Dog did when he bought his AC unit.

Cheap parts or not there are long term warranties on such items.

I think some of us here have a better grasp on German national character than you might.

That is not much of an argument.

Edited April 22, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Zero Sum 305]

I know exactly what I got into when I bought my home in 2006 and over paid. I expect to replace things and as a consumer Im very happy I have plenty of choices.

I was talking about a consumer that directly buys the product like Big Dog did when he bought his AC unit.

Cheap parts or not there are long term warranties on such items.

That is not much of an argument.

Good points, all of them. Save for the warranties. They don't usually cover upgrades just because you feel like it. I am also very glad for you that you are a very happy consumer. Go buy something.

If you notice jundp's association with Germany, perhaps you'd realize her one line is much more of an argument than a tourists' perspective.

[Captain Oates 911]

We're in a recession and now is not the time to buy into the global warming hysteria.

You've been presented with two good points I hope you come back to defend your post.

If the global warming hysteria is not hysteria - then the economy and jobs is of insignificant importance

I would suggest that having a habitable planet to live on is more important than being able to afford the interest rates on buying an iphone

Not that I am an Eco-freak. I drive a 3.5 litre 6 cylinder car and use lots of electricity. Luckily I live by a hydro dam in a desert so my monthly bill is $35 - even when it's 110 and the A/C is on at 72 degrees 24 hours a day. The $35 covers water heating/cooking/lights/and 5 computers (I trade financial instruments)

I like the Germans and Germany - I was Geschäftsführer of a company in Muenchen and it's some place the Munich Jim - but they do get a bit intense and throw themselves into every project. I would leave em to it and not interfere coz while they are doing that, they aren't bombing everybody on the planet like some nations do as their national pastime

As usual the truth lays between the two positions - global warming is very true and is dangerous - and the eco freaks answer to it is too extreme

The Catholic and Muslim attitude to birth control is a far greater danger and global warming could be coped with if the huge population explosion could be dealt with

[^_^ 5,021]

If the global warming hysteria is not hysteria - then the economy and jobs is of insignificant importance

So we might as well be Green, because global warming might exist?

Sounds a lot like that canard religious folk like to throw out there about how you might as well pray because God might exist.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So we might as well be Green, because global warming might exist?

Sounds a lot like that canard religious folk like to throw out there about how you might as well pray because God might exist.

Think of prayer more like meditation, and then it is not all about begging God for things you would already have if you got off your knees and looked for them yourself.

But global warming, even if true, is not the disaster the apocalyptics claim just so that can place us all into agrarian communes and worship trees while reading from little red books.

[Zero Sum 305]

If only that were what they were preaching. Since it isn't, I'd leave the hyperbolic commentary aside and focus on the what and where of the current state of research. Denialist ignorance aside, that is.

[Captain Oates 911]

So we might as well be Green, because global warming might exist?

Sounds a lot like that canard religious folk like to throw out there about how you might as well pray because God might exist.

To clarify - I did say that global warming does exist and is serious - but does not justify the extreme measures that Germany and the eco warriors etc take.

Germany is too far one way and the US is too far the other way. The sensible way is in the middle plus birth control and pressure on the medieval religions to change their stance on the population explosion which will end in hunger and disease just as it does with all species

eg Ethanol takes away from food production so only population control will be effective on energy and land usage

Nobody talks about population control any more but all the perceived major problems such as disease and hunger and gas prices and global warming and illegal immigration etc etc etc can be traced back to that.

The Europeans have that problema sorted and the lowest birth rate in Europe is ? Italy ! Il Papa's back yard. Somebody isn't listening to him.

When he was a teenager he was in an organization who could deal with population control by direct means, but becoming irrelevant as Papa seems even more effective at achieving that end

[Zero Sum 305]

Population on one end... consumption on the other. Which one has more impact on emissions? Why ask that? Both are important factors to deal with.

[Captain Oates 911]

Population on one end... consumption on the other. Which one has more impact on emissions? Why ask that? Both are important factors to deal with.

They do say that the major greenhouse gas producer is methane from cow's bottoms

I submit that it is easier to reduce that by reducing the number of cows than finding a dietary supplement that will make them less flatulent

[mawilson 2,133]

Nobody talks about population control any more but all the perceived major problems such as disease and hunger and gas prices and global warming and illegal immigration etc etc etc can be traced back to that.

Yep. They should stop making more humans - we already have more than we need.

If the global warming hysteria is not hysteria - then the economy and jobs is of insignificant importance

I would suggest that having a habitable planet to live on is more important than being able to afford the interest rates on buying an iphone

Not that I am an Eco-freak. I drive a 3.5 litre 6 cylinder car and use lots of electricity. Luckily I live by a hydro dam in a desert so my monthly bill is $35 - even when it's 110 and the A/C is on at 72 degrees 24 hours a day. The $35 covers water heating/cooking/lights/and 5 computers (I trade financial instruments)

I like the Germans and Germany - I was Geschäftsführer of a company in Muenchen and it's some place the Munich Jim - but they do get a bit intense and throw themselves into every project. I would leave em to it and not interfere coz while they are doing that, they aren't bombing everybody on the planet like some nations do as their national pastime

As usual the truth lays between the two positions - global warming is very true and is dangerous - and the eco freaks answer to it is too extreme

The Catholic and Muslim attitude to birth control is a far greater danger and global warming could be coped with if the huge population explosion could be dealt with

Very good post.

[Zero Sum 305]

They do say that the major greenhouse gas producer is methane from cow's bottoms

I submit that it is easier to reduce that by reducing the number of cows than finding a dietary supplement that will make them less flatulent

Beano for Moos.

Or we could simply eat less corn-fed beef and lose some weight in the process, exercise more, drive less, and live happier lives.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If only that were what they were preaching. Since it isn't, I'd leave the hyperbolic commentary aside and focus on the what and where of the current state of research. Denialist ignorance aside, that is.

The self-proclaimed smartest superhuman in the world, Algore, has gotten it wrong, even the "consensus" of scientists that mostly are not actually scientists freely admit that. So, what hope is there for us ignorant mortals?

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The main problem we have on this planet is indeed the population explosion.

While smart people everywhere on this planet have understood the implications of popping out babies like rabbits -- whether it be the immense cost to raise and to educate everyone of them, or the impact it has on the planet and the food and energy supply -- the not-so-smart people, many of them religious regressives, still hold on to God's will and embrace more children as a sign of wealth and prosperity and a secure retirement.

But the world has changed, and large family clans are a thing of the past in all but a few third world countries. The young 'ones are now moving out into the world to live on their own as soon as they can. They want a car, shiny things, vacations, a great life. Tthey don't want to grow old on the family farm anymore with grandma and grandpa to take care of.

As much as I have to admit not being a friend of the Chinese regime, I applaud their efforts to reduce their population by 50% from one billion to 500 million. When I was born, there were 1,9 billion people living on this globe, now it's about 6.8 billion -- three times as many. If we keep on going like this, the planet will be a very crowded place with not enough energy and food to take care of them all. What happens then is left up to your imagination. First we have secure neighborhoods, castle-like settings in the spirit of wealthy enclaves we already find in the US today to keep the less fortunate and the beggars and the poor out, and then there will be violence, big time.

The way to deal with this is easy: every person is allowed to create another one. So if a couple gets married and has two children, that's cool. If one of them has a child before, they can have only one. If they have more, they can either have a publically funded sterilization -- both of them -- or they can pay plenty of taxes to make up for the cost this extra child has on the American people. Popping out babies without the means to provide a decent upbringing and a good college education for everyone of them should be seen as what it is: a selfish act, and a disservice to Us The People in general. It's not God's will, who gave us brain cells to act responsible, but stupidity and the failure to pull out in time or to use a condom.

But this is a Christian nation, very concerned with gays and abortion and family planing, so we're not there yet. Another thing where the Chinese have passed us hands down.

Luckily we have wars and earthquakes and Tsunamis that help a bit. From that perspective, the US is indeed a soldier of God, as this great nation makes sure not too many people help overcrowding this planet by killing many and by letting others starve to death.

Go USA!

[Captain Oates 911]

The main problem we have on this planet is indeed the population explosion.

While smart people everywhere on this planet have understood the implications of popping out babies like rabbits -- whether it be the immense cost to raise and to educate everyone of them, or the impact it has on the planet and the food and energy supply -- the not-so-smart people, many of them religious regressives, still hold on to God's will and embrace more children as a sign of wealth and prosperity and a secure retirement.

But the world has changed, and large family clans are a thing of the past in all but a few third world countries. The young 'ones are now moving out into the world to live on their own as soon as they can. They want a car, shiny things, vacations, a great life. Tthey don't want to grow old on the family farm anymore with grandma and grandpa to take care of.

As much as I have to admit not being a friend of the Chinese regime, I applaud their efforts to reduce their population by 50% from one billion to 500 million. When I was born, there were 1,9 billion people living on this globe, now it's about 6.8 billion -- three times as many. If we keep on going like this, the planet will be a very crowded place with not enough energy and food to take care of them all. What happens then is left up to your imagination. First we have secure neighborhoods, castle-like settings in the spirit of wealthy enclaves we already find in the US today to keep the less fortunate and the beggars and the poor out, and then there will be violence, big time.

The way to deal with this is easy: every person is allowed to create another one. So if a couple gets married and has two children, that's cool. If one of them has a child before, they can have only one. If they have more, they can either have a publically funded sterilization -- both of them -- or they can pay plenty of taxes to make up for the cost this extra child has on the American people. Popping out babies without the means to provide a decent upbringing and a good college education for everyone of them should be seen as what it is: a selfish act, and a disservice to Us The People in general. It's not God's will, who gave us brain cells to act responsible, but stupidity and the failure to pull out in time or to use a condom.

But this is a Christian nation, very concerned with gays and abortion and family planing, so we're not there yet. Another thing where the Chinese have passed us hands down.

Luckily we have wars and earthquakes and Tsunamis that help a bit. From that perspective, the US is indeed a soldier of God, as this great nation makes sure not too many people help overcrowding this planet by killing many and by letting others starve to death.

Go USA!

and as for OCTO-MUM !!!!!! I hope she gets cellulite as a punishment from Jesus

Notice he didn't go round Palestine procreating like a cialis ridden gerbil ... 32 years old and no kids and not married and never lived with anyone and hangs out with 12 guys every night .........hum... what would the republicans in oklahoma say to that ?

..