Students asked to give part of their GPA to lower earning student.

[Zero Sum 305]

Did just fine as a teacher (loved it). Doing just fine now. Now that resentment of yours... not so good.

(Read back to the part about those that didn't do so good in school.)

[slim 1,530]

Did just fine as a teacher (loved it). Doing just fine now. Now that resentment of yours... not so good.

(Read back to the part about those that didn't do so good in school.)

Of course you did fine as a teacher. You can't fail at that! We've continually lowered our standards so everyone is good enough.

[Zero Sum 305]

Oh so appropriate bump here for presumptively low achievers

I see a pattern with slim. Every time he winds himself up with his own irrelevant arguments, he gets annoying and nitpicky with posts.

Most readers can address points one by one without the need to focus-focus.

Since he is now an expert at teaching methodologies, and can't miss any point as to how diverse teaching strategies include the use of peer learning in advancing not just underperforming students, but also top achievers, it is clear to me and likely anyone ever experienced in education in the past that he knows exactly what he's talking about, is not resentful, and never was (and is not now) an under-achiever.

Furthermore, he does not take things completely out of context and scope. No sir, he don't. He also does not extrapolate grading systems that are not used.

Conclusion: he knows more than the teachers.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It's funny how nobody has a problem sharing until it's their turn to give.

Liberal generosity is about forcing others to give.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Liberal generosity is about forcing others to give.

Do you honestly believe that? That's an embarrassing opinion.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Unsurprisingly illogical rhetoric designed to mischaracterize those libruls.

If some of you guys didn't make the grade in school don't be selfish when others do. Remember those study sessions you opted out of drive around town like a retard? Yeah... You could have learned something that would help with reading and thinking later on in life. Who knew?

Yeah it's a ridiculous comparison, typical of the tabloid way in which the US mass media panders to the lowest common denominator. All one need do apparently is find some insane analogy and you have "debate". It's typical on VJ too.

[Nina~ 431]

My prof at university did an informal experiment. Every semester, he would ask the students to give a presentation on a project and would ask the students to evaluate each other's project. He would then compare it with his own evaluation. About 99.9% of the time, the students were much harsher evaluating their peers. His conclusion was that students (liberal or not) did not want to give a good grade to a person who seemed to do less work because these are the same students who would be competing with them in the job market. However, when he asked students to co-operate and help each other with projects (with outsiders being the evaluators), the students were more productive and their projects were much better.

I really don't think political ideology has anything to do with handing out grades.

[slim 1,530]

Do you honestly believe that? That's an embarrassing opinion.

Is it not the truth?

students (liberal or not) did not want to give a good grade to a person who seemed to do less work because these are the same students who would be competing with them in the job market. However, when he asked students to co-operate and help each other with projects (with outsiders being the evaluators), the students were more productive and their projects were much better.

Share the work, increase the productivity!

So basically your professor just proved that socialism works. The only problem with teaching students in that manner is once they graduate they're no longer on the team and they're back to being individuals who are competing for jobs. When we leave folks with the collective mentality of "everyone deserves a chance" we lose our competitive edge and instead of innovation and drive we end up with "let's all chip in and make sure the minimum gets done."

Can group projects work? Yes. Can collaborative teaching methods be used to help smart kids and dumb kids alike? Sure. But, what we've done from kindergarten all the way through post-grad studies is tone down individual performance for the benefit of the team. Simply put, when hold back individuals - especially in the name of bettering the group - we limit advancement of our most talented individuals.

And that truly costs all of us.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No slim it is not the truth.

[Zero Sum 305]

It really doesn't. In grad school it was much the same- although one thing all of us appreciated was the constructive criticism offered by our peers in written works.

My prof at university did an informal experiment. Every semester, he would ask the students to give a presentation on a project and would ask the students to evaluate each other's project. He would then compare it with his own evaluation. About 99.9% of the time, the students were much harsher evaluating their peers. His conclusion was that students (liberal or not) did not want to give a good grade to a person who seemed to do less work because these are the same students who would be competing with them in the job market. However, when he asked students to co-operate and help each other with projects (with outsiders being the evaluators), the students were more productive and their projects were much better.

I really don't think political ideology has anything to do with handing out grades.

Now all you have to do is read back to my posts on the matter and see mountain you made through false and incomplete assumpions.

Is it not the truth?

Share the work, increase the productivity!

So basically your professor just proved that socialism works. The only problem with teaching students in that manner is once they graduate they're no longer on the team and they're back to being individuals who are competing for jobs. When we leave folks with the collective mentality of "everyone deserves a chance" we lose our competitive edge and instead of innovation and drive we end up with "let's all chip in and make sure the minimum gets done."

Can group projects work? Yes. Can collaborative teaching methods be used to help smart kids and dumb kids alike? Sure. But, what we've done from kindergarten all the way through post-grad studies is tone down individual performance for the benefit of the team. Simply put, when hold back individuals - especially in the name of bettering the group - we limit advancement of our most talented individuals.

And that truly costs all of us.

[Nina~ 431]

Is it not the truth?

Share the work, increase the productivity!

So basically your professor just proved that socialism works. The only problem with teaching students in that manner is once they graduate they're no longer on the team and they're back to being individuals who are competing for jobs. When we leave folks with the collective mentality of "everyone deserves a chance" we lose our competitive edge and instead of innovation and drive we end up with "let's all chip in and make sure the minimum gets done."

Can group projects work? Yes. Can collaborative teaching methods be used to help smart kids and dumb kids alike? Sure. But, what we've done from kindergarten all the way through post-grad studies is tone down individual performance for the benefit of the team. Simply put, when hold back individuals - especially in the name of bettering the group - we limit advancement of our most talented individuals.

And that truly costs all of us.

That is a very simplistic thinking and most workplaces do not operate that way. My manager & director are both engineers, however my manager is a better engineer (more technically competent) than our director.. However, my director is better at planning and dealing with difficult clients. So who is more talented & valuable to the organization? They both are!!! They both bring their own unique skills to the organization, and the director helps my manager be a much better engineer by dealing with people/schedules/admin work so that my manager can better utilize his time by dealing with more technical stuff.

Even in the capitalistic corporate world, people are put together and told to work in groups so each person bring their own strengths to the table. Nobody is toning down individual performance here. This is exactly why universities teach students by giving them individual projects and group projects, so that it helps them prepare to work successfully individually and as a group in the real world.

[Zero Sum 305]

Very good post Nina

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Nina is right, in the world of achievement and results, you will find that best way for a "group project" and "working together" a very effective way to increase revenue (something socialist CEOs and shareholders love) is to maximize the various skills they have (they will never be the same) usually through teamwork and collaboration and "breaking down the silos" (in today's popular business-speak). It's something every good manager understands and tries to encourage.

[Zero Sum 305]

And that is a better way of holding down a job. Not being all Individual Spartan about it since the Spartans themselves worked always as a group.

[slim 1,530]

No slim it is not the truth.

Really?

My manager & director are both engineers, however my manager is a better engineer (more technically competent) than our director.. However, my director is better at planning and dealing with difficult clients. So who is more talented & valuable to the organization? They both are!!!

So they both make the same amount of money?

Nina is right, in the world of achievement and results, you will find that best way for a "group project" and "working together" a very effective way to increase revenue (something socialist CEOs and shareholders love) is to maximize the various skills they have (they will never be the same) usually through teamwork and collaboration and "breaking down the silos" (in today's popular business-speak). It's something every good manager understands and tries to encourage.

Is everyone on the team paid the same?

And that is a better way of holding down a job. Not being all Individual Spartan about it since the Spartans themselves worked always as a group.

Even the Spartans had a chain of command.

Not everyone gets to be a general.