Students asked to give part of their GPA to lower earning student.

[slim 1,530]

"dumb" and lazy are not the same thing

Oh the lazy ones aren't dumb! They're smart enough to sit back doing nothing while we continue to pay them.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

So perhaps the problem is not offering help to the "dumb" kids but perhaps the lazy ones? I think the "smart" kids can spot the difference

[slim 1,530]

So perhaps the problem is not offering help to the "dumb" kids but perhaps the lazy ones? I think the "smart" kids can spot the difference

Does it matter when the teacher tells them it's their responsibility to make sure everyone passes?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

And we know this happens because?

[slim 1,530]

And we know this happens because?

Because somewhere back in page 6 or so Zero Sum posted that it's a great technique to use when teaching.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Because somewhere back in page 6 or so Zero Sum posted that it's a great technique to use when teaching.

So that means that it's applied equally across the board even in situations where it won't be effective?

I don't think so

[slim 1,530]

So that means that it's applied equally across the board even in situations where it won't be effective?

I don't think so

It was posted as being effective every time. - Also something about the rising tide raising everyone in the boat.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

It was posted as being effective every time. - Also something about the rising tide raising everyone in the boat.

What was said was that they all cooperated. Being lazy means not cooperating. It did not say it was effective every time or what the results were when someone did not cooperate. I invite you to read Zero Sum's post again.

The fun experiment would have been with the lowest performers set to determine the grade for all. When I did this teaching kids they all cooperated to ensure all learned. I never saw a better study motivator than that.

[Vi-Jay 218]

Edited April 30, 2011 by Vi-Jay

[Vi-Jay 218]

Look at it, Seriously, I think it's time to call it.

[Zero Sum 305]

I do spend a lot of time with people on welfare and for the most part, they've never been taught to take it upon themselves to be responsible. They'll do the minimum because that's what's required.

Programs that require smart people to teach dumb ones do very little for the smart. Even less for the dumb.

And

The 'people' who can't fish and rely on someone to hand them a fish.

I see. So you're assuming all my under-performing students (read the post you were replying to to perhaps (I wish) understand what it was you were responding to... were bad fishermen? Assumptions in your case don't work, so try less of them.

But you are mentioning something important in the first post I quote up there. I bold it for you.

Now think about what it was the peer learning methodology teaches.

That's right: personal responsibility. All boats rise with the tide.

Oh the lazy ones aren't dumb! They're smart enough to sit back doing nothing while we continue to pay them.

Now you can take this into the 'big picture.' These kids end up working with the likes of you, apparently. No offense. These are the ones that can't cut it in the job world.

Does it matter when the teacher tells them it's their responsibility to make sure everyone passes?

The teacher is merely a tool. The ones that don't want to learn never will. And we can tell what happens to those. Nobody is responsible for everyone else as its a peer exercise. The ones that don't want to do not penalize everyone else.

Because somewhere back in page 6 or so Zero Sum posted that it's a great technique to use when teaching.

Which you completely took out of context into your 'big picture' tangent without really understanding what it was I was saying. No surprise.

So that means that it's applied equally across the board even in situations where it won't be effective?

I don't think so

Correct. Those that wanted to fail, failed. Those that did not want to fail, studied. And did well. And are now in places they wouldn't be without having learned the importance of being good students.

It was posted as being effective every time. - Also something about the rising tide raising everyone in the boat.

Indeed, almost all of the time. You missed the relevant parts.

What was said was that they all cooperated. Being lazy means not cooperating. It did not say it was effective every time or what the results were when someone did not cooperate. I invite you to read Zero Sum's post again.

You get a star for this.